voiceofjoe Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Hand from a Tourney tonight - I'm currently lying around 6th of 70. Top 27 paid. No overly aggressive or tight players noticable on table. Fold, Call or Raise :unsure Full Tilt Poker Game #7332328572: $2 + $0.25 Tournament (55635466), Table 20 - 200/400 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:20:27 ET - 2008/07/22 Seat 1: Kippiknaus76 (11,194) Seat 2: Reech (4,225) Seat 3: AngusRut (26,047) Seat 4: 2PAIRBEAR (12,035), is sitting out Seat 6: howdthatfeel (6,970) Seat 7: Razorback100 (3,480) Seat 8: Dro222 (29,514) Seat 9: goloversic7 (22,193) Kippiknaus76 antes 50 Reech antes 50 AngusRut antes 50 2PAIRBEAR antes 50 howdthatfeel antes 50 Razorback100 antes 50 Dro222 antes 50 goloversic7 antes 50 Reech posts the small blind of 200 AngusRut posts the big blind of 400 The button is in seat #1 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to AngusRut [6d 3d] 2PAIRBEAR folds howdthatfeel folds Razorback100 has 15 seconds left to act Razorback100 folds Eurosausage sits down Eurosausage adds 14,145 Dro222 raises to 800 goloversic7 calls 800 Kippiknaus76 folds Reech folds AngusRut calls 400 *** FLOP *** [Ac 4d 2d] AngusRut checks Dro222 bets 3,000 goloversic7 raises to 6,000 AngusRut has 15 seconds left to act .............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowRow87 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? dont think i could call mate, especially with Dro222 still to act. would be great to see another card but i would fold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? Call is out of the question. 6k shaves too much off for you to not be committed thereafter. It really does depend on your situation. If you're playing 4 mtts at a time and 20 a day or somethin then an all-in is a definite option. If the tournament is more important to you then it's a fold. I'd fold most of the time here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? Easy fold. If you were heads up against the original raiser I would jam the flop as you have to assume you have 12 outs (9 diamonds and 3 5's). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? Easy fold. If you were heads up against the original raiser I would jam the flop as you have to assume you have 12 outs (9 diamonds and 3 5's). isn't it 11 outs, are you double counting the 5 of diamonds ? I'd fold this preflop so as not to be in the siuation, I'd also fold it here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? isn't it 11 outs, are you double counting the 5 of diamonds ? I'd fold this preflop so as not to be in the siuation, I'd also fold it here I'm amazed anyone can fold that preflop with the odds being offered 2600/400 :unsure (BTW I think the outs is correct 9 plus 3 fives) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? I have to agree it's an automatic call pre-flop. There aren't many hands I would fold preflop to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? Easy fold. If you were heads up against the original raiser I would jam the flop as you have to assume you have 12 outs (9 diamonds and 3 5's). Also if the stacks of your opponents were 10k or less say - then it may be a shove for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? isn't it 11 outs, are you double counting the 5 of diamonds ? I'd fold this preflop so as not to be in the siuation, I'd also fold it here I made it 9 remaining diamonds AJ and 3 5's not the 5 of diamonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? All in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? All in Not sure I agree with you, but it's certainly better than call. It's push or fold time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? Not sure I agree with you, but it's certainly better than call. It's push or fold time Yep its not a fold for me and calling gets you nothing, big stacks don't like other agressive big stacks and with AK AQ they are going to fold if they call happy days you have 52 outs ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? Yep its not a fold for me and calling gets you nothing' date=' big stacks don't like other agressive big stacks and with AK AQ they are going to fold if they call happy days you have 52 outs ;)[/quote'] No one at this level is folding AK here. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? No one at this level is folding AK here. :ok Yep just noticed the levels......... but back to the original question - how do good players play this ? All in :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? Like I say it depends on the individual. The best way I can answer is - what would I do if it happend in a tourn I usually play. I would definitely fold. Why on earth would I take a chance with a flip when I'm in a good position in the tourn. I'd try and let poker win my the tourn from that stage. ;) If I'm short stacked it plays itself obviously. There are many different ways to play a hand and it ALWAYS depends on the current state of the tournament and your position in it. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? I shove. Let's face it, NO ONE is surprised by that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? I'm not folding pre flop either. :ok I shove. Let's face it, NO ONE is surprised by that. True, but I'm surprised you didn't advocate re-raising pre-flop. :unsure Seat 8: Dro222 (29,514) Seat 9: goloversic7 (22,193) That to me says fold. If I had them covered with a stack to spare I'd be prepared to gamble, but I can't play on from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? I took quite a while considering the push - but chickened out and folded. I knew(felt?) that they where both playing aces, and that I would have 12 definite outs. They eventually ended up both allin before the turn - the initial rasier showed A4 for 2 pair and the other guy showed AQ the turn was a blank and the river was Q of Diamonds - giving the other guy a bigger 2 pair and would have filled my flush draw :( I think if it had been nearer the bubble I would have called - I don't know if thats logical :unsure But after looking at my percentages afterwards, bearing in mind the players had (roughly) what I thought they had,plus the fact that I couldn't really have asked for a much better flop I should have called then. (I was a 6/4 shot after the flop) Ah well next time ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? I took quite a while considering the push - but chickened out and folded. I knew(felt?) that they where both playing aces, and that I would have 12 definite outs. They eventually ended up both allin before the turn - the initial rasier showed A4 for 2 pair and the other guy showed AQ the turn was a blank and the river was Q of Diamonds - giving the other guy a bigger 2 pair and would have filled my flush draw :( I think if it had been nearer the bubble I would have called - I don't know if thats logical :unsure But after looking at my percentages afterwards, bearing in mind the players had (roughly) what I thought they had,plus the fact that I couldn't really have asked for a much better flop I should have called then. (I was a 6/4 shot after the flop) Ah well next time ........ Obviously Joe if you knew what cards they held face up it's a call 100% of the time. The biggest factor for me would have been is my flush draw live and obviously if it isn't you're way behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? Haven't posted on here in ages but ran into this thread randomly googling something else so I'll throw my two cents in. I'd always push here. You can reasonably assume 12 outs. If someone has a better flush draw then they have it, but that's probabilistically unlikely enough I wouldn't give it much consideration with that much play in my stack. Your 12 outs over 2 cards gives you a 50% shot at taking this pot down, so I'd be shoving this even heads up as the pot as it stands makes that a lot of +EV. And you do have some amount of fold equity here, certainly over both opponents, but even both giving you this pot is not impossible - something like the 3k being a steal/cbet and the reraise a weak ace finding out where it is is. There's value pushing this even heads up, but since you're against two opponents it's a better situation still, and with the money in the pot already you're getting a great price. You're probably going to have to pick up pots as a dog or without getting the right price at some point to win a tournament, so I'd never turn down value like this, especially as I assume taking this down would have made you chipleader with the bubble approaching, and put you in an excellent position to grind down shortstacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatch Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? Simple fold. The min raise always stinks of aces pre flop and if he has hit top ste your outs are lowered a lot. Also if someone has raised or called with Ad and any other diamond as alot do in these tourneys then you are screwed with only 2 outs really. Find a better spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rah-1 Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? seriously how can so many people be in favour of going all in there?? this is a tournament and its before the bubble, and in a lot of situations its far more important to protect your stack than going for a marginal call. Lets see..... you have only put in 400 right? and you are in a good position in the tournament already, there has been a bet and a reraise before you and all you got is a crappy flushdraw. you are far away from drawing to the nut flush. Why on earth would you risk go broke on a coinflip like that before the bubble?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Re: How do good players play this ?? Many people are saying to gamble as these are the moves that win you tournaments. If the flush draw is live he has 12 outs (9 for the flush and 3 for the str8) 48% to treble up. Of course in this situation he wasn't to know that his flush draw was live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.