happygooner Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 Re: I would really like to get some educated comments on this article I found Anyway I'm off to bed but we should continue this tomor:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Re: I would really like to get some educated comments on this article I found My ex mrs was a veggie sadly it didn't last:sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happygooner Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 Re: I would really like to get some educated comments on this article I found Just out of interest, how do you feel when put like this God knows how many animals are killed for food each day. A small number of bulls are killed in the ring each day (in bullfighting season) Up until the time in the ring these bulls are treated like kings. Fed the best meat there is, kept in tip top conditions etc. The bulls themselves in a fight are just as important as the bullfighter. If the bulls in a show are bad the crowd will start abusing the breeder, "**** you bredder" and the rest the bulls are obviously then killed 99/100, but are then used for food, not just discarded. At Las Ventas here, the most famous bullfighting ring in the world, there is actually a place on site where they are instantly turned into meat! I'll do some research and come back to you on this:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Re: I would really like to get some educated comments on this article I found Just out of interest, how do you feel when put like this God knows how many animals are killed for food each day. A small number of bulls are killed in the ring each day (in bullfighting season) Up until the time in the ring these bulls are treated like kings. Fed the best meat there is, kept in tip top conditions etc. The bulls themselves in a fight are just as important as the bullfighter. If the bulls in a show are bad the crowd will start abusing the breeder, "**** you bredder" and the rest the bulls are obviously then killed 99/100, but are then used for food, not just discarded. At Las Ventas here, the most famous bullfighting ring in the world, there is actually a place on site where they are instantly turned into meat! What would happen Rat if the bull killed the bullfighter. Would the bull be granted freedom or still executed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassius Marcellus Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Re: I would really like to get some educated comments on this article I found At the previous day's meet when two horses - In The High Grass and Time To Sell - had been killed in a race even the BBC commentator described as "headless", meaning it was run at a reckless pace, In The High Grass had actually won his previous race. Time To Sell had won before but he was in the rear when he fell at the Chair (3rd). 17 horses fell or pulled up in that race, 15 were fine afterwards. The time was over 8 seconds SLOWER than standard. They claim to love their horses - so many I spoke to, including the trainers of the two horses that died last week, referred to the animals as "pets" - but still they allow them to risk breaking their necks in front of thousands of jeering drunks, and to be whipped up to 20 times in one race while clearly exhausted, all to feed the extremely lucrative racing and betting industries that put very little store in the welfare of these amazing, graceful animals. Well, did Little Brick love his job before he was killed at the 2007 Cheltenham Festival? He was in an overcrowded three-mile-plus race after a 490- day lay-off and had never been tested on such a difficult course. What a load of bollocks. Little Brick, despite a 490 day lay-off, was ODDS-ON for his reappearance race, and he WON it at Wincanton with McCoy on him. In the William Hill Trophy Chase he was in the process of moving up to challenge at the 4th from home, made a bad jump, and was pulled up with a fractured shoulder. Or how about Earl Compton, who had been raced five times in 17 days before he broke a leg at the Southwell course in Nottinghamshire? It was 16 days, she can't count. There is no mention of it having 3 races in 8 days in January, because he was okay then. She also forgot to tell her reader(s) that Earl Compton was a 5 furlong sprinter on the All Weather tracks, not a chaser. I've had enough of her shit, I'm off to bed. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Re: I would really like to get some educated comments on this article I found A fantastically named site I stumbled across called www.horsedeathwatch.com (sorry for the link):( Probably a HUGE amount of runners but it's still very sad and reprehensible IF it can be avoided or lessened in any way. Tomorrow there are 436 runners in England alone. 436 x 444 = 193,584 On this basis 0.11% of runners have died. THE DEFENCE RESTS.... :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Re: I would really like to get some educated comments on this article I found Based on the above around 1 in a 1000 dies due to racing. That is pretty close to perfection in my book. See how you can use statements to prove your argument? Least mine are factual. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRat Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Re: I would really like to get some educated comments on this article I found What would happen Rat if the bull killed the bullfighter. Would the bull be granted freedom or still executed. The crowd judges what happens. If the bull has been very good, the crowd will will shout out to save it, this is extremely rare though but does happen I'm not sure if the bull will then be put in another fight later on as well. there are bulls though through history that have survived and been granted "freedom", and they go down in folklore, and are hailed as champions. There are comemoritive things around for some bulls who have done this, but in all fairness it is rare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshman 2005 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Re: I would really like to get some educated comments on this article I found sounds to me as if this thread is one sided. from wikipedia. Bullfighting generates heated controversy in many areas of the world, including Spain. Supporters of bullfighting argue that it is a culturally important tradition, while animal rights groups argue that it is a blood sport because of the suffering of the bull and horses during the bullfight. how the fcuk, can you justify killing a bull as being "culturally important". look i hate Jump racing, after seeing spotthedifference (if my memory is correct) race and win a 4 and a half mile Cross Country chase. He specialised in this type of race.Anyway after he crossed the finish line, the horse collapsed and was breathing very very heavily. Fortunately he got up and during the replay you could see he slipped in the atrocious conditions. But that one event has put me right off jump racing. And also had me wondering why they insist on running horses when the ground is heavy or too firm. And also like the article, i've been questioning the integrity of horse racing altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happygooner Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 Re: I would really like to get some educated comments on this article I found Based on the above around 1 in a 1000 dies due to racing. That is pretty close to perfection in my book. See how you can use statements to prove your argument? Least mine are factual. ;) Agreed, it is a very small overall percentage. However just to play devils advocate....can you imagine if 1 in every 1000 football players that took to the field every day across the globe was to die as a consequence of the game, that people would have the same opinion and view in the same way. Football is perhaps not the best comparison but I can't really think of anything so mainstream with so many involved, practically every single day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happygooner Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 Re: I would really like to get some educated comments on this article I found The crowd judges what happens. If the bull has been very good, the crowd will will shout out to save it, this is extremely rare though but does happen I'm not sure if the bull will then be put in another fight later on as well. there are bulls though through history that have survived and been granted "freedom", and they go down in folklore, and are hailed as champions. There are comemoritive things around for some bulls who have done this, but in all fairness it is rare! It really depends on your viewpoint I suppose - putting things as diplomatically as possible - but I am strongly against all blood sports. Fox hunting, cock fighting, dog fighting, badger baiting, bull fighting....all are just forms of animal cruelty dressed up as sport imo. Yes I eat meat but I would be disgusted if I knew firsthand that the animal was tortured beforehand (and I do know that not all forms of killing the animal are perfect or anwhere close to perfect as is and as should be) despite how nice and wonderful a life the animal lived until it's ultimate demise. Throwing prisoners to the lions and fighting gladiators against lions etc...was traditional - and I'm sure culturally important - back in Roman times and the day of the Collisseum. Doesn't mean it was right. Interestingly enough your comment about the crowd deciding the bulls fate sounds very similar to something you would read about from the Collisseum. As I said, it's all about opinions....and this is mine....right or wrong! Back to the horses:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Re: I would really like to get some educated comments on this article I found Agreed, it is a very small overall percentage. However just to play devils advocate....can you imagine if 1 in every 1000 football players that took to the field every day across the globe was to die as a consequence of the game, that people would have the same opinion and view in the same way. Football is perhaps not the best comparison but I can't really think of anything so mainstream with so many involved, practically every single day. Well I think a couple of footballers have died on the pitch in the past couple of years. 92 clubs, each having about 22 different players on average. The numbers wouldn't be THAT different would they? In my opinion though, any arguement that opposes something due to a 1/1000 chance of something bad happening is ridiculous. For everyone that dies there are hundreds well looked after, cared for and loved. Take away racing, you lose that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happygooner Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 Re: I would really like to get some educated comments on this article I found In my opinion though, any arguement that opposes something due to a 1/1000 chance of something bad happening is ridiculous. You've got a valid point there:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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