Flush draw............fold/call/raise

[effigy]

Was just playing in a $10 SNG, and second hand this hand occured and I'm interested to see what everyone would do: First hand was a raise from 2nd position everyone folds by the way...... Everyone has roughly $1500 and I have no info on any players as it's just started........... CO raises to $60 Button calls $60 SB folds I raise to $250 with AKh CO & button call Pot is now $760 Flop: 9h 10c Jh So I've got nut flush draw, gutshot nut straight draw, also 2 overs but I doubt their validity as K would no likely make a straight for an opponent and A may make 2 pair for an opponent ( this is what I was thinking at the time ) and since I re-raised preflop I decide to follow through and I bet $400 into the pot and CO raises all in and button calls all in as well! So the pot is now a monster of $3750! And I've got $750 left giving me exactly 5-1 odds on my money if I call. Now in a cash game I'd call like a shot, but I thought a bit and decided to fold as obviously I knew I was beat at the moment, and that I'm pretty confident that I've enough chips left to make the money ( I did come 3rd in the end ) but I had real doubts that even though I made the money that I turned down a good chance to win it ( even though I made the money I was never close to getting the first place as my chips never got above $1500 ) so I'm wondering what others would have done, as I seem to value my life in the tourney more than the odds. It did turn out that CO had 99 and Button had KQ which held up for the straight and I wouldn't have hit my heart either. However I consider the fact I would have been knocked out irrelevant as I didn't know that at the time of course. Anyway so I'm wondering 1) how would you play the AKh preflop? call od raise ( and how much ) 2) would you bet that flop ( and how much ) or not 3) do you call the 2 all-ins? Many thanks for any help!!

[heniek31]

Re: Flush draw............fold/call/raise Shame you posted what actually happened. Before I got to that point, I was pretty sure one of them holds KQ anyway. I have no problem with your re raise pre flop, but I still would have just called and hoping for hitting the flop. You didn't hit that flop and its a pretty bad flop for AK. With raise and call before the flop, I'm not messing with other guys on that flop. I would check and if they are both all in I'm out of there. Yet if I put 400 in, thats half of my stuck. I'm all in and hoping for heart.

[SteveO]

Re: Flush draw............fold/call/raise You're getting 5/1 and you're just over 2/1 to hit the nut flush. You can never argue with the odds calling for the rest of your chips is +ev. The fact you would have got knocked out is irrelevant folding is the wrong decision.

[DM99]

Re: Flush draw............fold/call/raise If you use pure stats to evaluate this hand, then you are a favourite against anyone to improving to the nut flush or nut straight, even with the counterfeited outs. You only need 14 outs to be an evens shot at winning, and with the gutshot that is increased a couple. Still, I wouldn't push in your position and take the coin flip. The flop didin't help you, it helped your opponents more likely than not, so fold is the best action here. AK is a good starting hand, but when you fail to flop something it needs to be discarded IMO.

[effigy]

Re: Flush draw............fold/call/raise Thanks guys, after the initial glee of seeing that I wouldn't have hit I was thinking that I should have called. However, I feel my main mistake was on the flop, I should have checked. then Co would have raised and button would have gone all-in, the I could have folded. Interesting you bring up EV, as due to my re-raise preflop, if I check and the above happens then would you still call all-in? as it's still positive.

[AJ]

Re: Flush draw............fold/call/raise two points, firstly, it's an easy call. They odds cry for you to call. The fact it's the 2nd hand makes it an easier call for me, it's not as if you've invested an hour of your time and are at the bubble. If you lose, it's "gg"and fire up another one, if you win you most likely take out the entire game from a position of strength. Secondly, I just hate your raise to 250 at the start, I assume the blinds at this stage are 10/20 ? So you've did a 12 x BB raise, into a raised pot from the big blind (I read it as you being on the BB, am I right ??). What is the purpose of that raise ? I assume it's to take the pot down there and then, there is $130 in the pot, so you raise double the pot and get two callers and are out of position. I hate this raise based on your poor position, I flat call the bet, and take a flop and reasses. If you miss the flop, as most people do. Youré in deep trouble Once you get to the all-in; sure you need to call, but you shouldn't have put yourself pot committed with poor position and drawing hand.

[SteveO]

Re: Flush draw............fold/call/raise

If you use pure stats to evaluate this hand, then you are a favourite against anyone to improving to the nut flush or nut straight, even with the counterfeited outs. You only need 14 outs to be an evens shot at winning, and with the gutshot that is increased a couple. Still, I wouldn't push in your position and take the coin flip. The flop didin't help you, it helped your opponents more likely than not, so fold is the best action here. AK is a good starting hand, but when you fail to flop something it needs to be discarded IMO.

Sorry mate but you are totally wrong here. This is a situation where the pot odds are extremely important, yes he is behind in the hand but he's getting 5/1 on a less than a 2/1 call, he is unlikely to come across these odds on any other hand in the tournament the call is a must.

[SteveO]

Re: Flush draw............fold/call/raise

Thanks guys' date=' after the initial glee of seeing that I wouldn't have hit I was thinking that I should have called. However, I feel my main mistake was on the flop, I should have checked. then Co would have raised and button would have gone all-in, the I could have folded. Interesting you bring up EV, as due to my re-raise preflop, if I check and the above happens then would you still call all-in? as it's still positive.[/quote'] Yes I would have still called mate the only time I would fold is if I was about to bubble in a tourny for an extremely big prize or if the next step up in prize money was extremely large, even then it's a very difficult decision to put down.

[effigy]

Re: Flush draw............fold/call/raise Thanks guys, on reflection today, I feel that I got too deep into a hand too early, and that put me in a tough spot that I had no reason to be in. Maybe I put too much value on a hand like AK which after all is just A high.....................which leads me to another thread....