effigy Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Hey guys, just to give you a little idea of my standing in poker, I've been playing for years but never taken it seriously but in the last couple of weeks I've decided to start having a proper go at it, and am attempting to build up from the bottom, doing freerolls and trying to build a bankroll from scratch ( and some free cash like VC do ) and am doing pleasantly well, but a;though I have reached the latter stages of quite a few tourneys, I'm finding my lack of experience at the business end a bit tricky so here is 2 hands from last night to see what people think: Party Poker Freeroll: Turbo 12 left of 1433: I'm 3 from the button blinds at 15,000/30,000 I have 140,000, stacks ahead range from 90,000 ( big blind ) to 300,000 ( small blind ) I move in with A9, get called by JJ on button which holds up. Interpoker Freeroll: 22 left of 2124: I'm UTG with blinds at 8000/16000 I have about 63,000, stacks ahead range from 40,000 ( mid pos ) to 200,000 ( cutoff) , rest are between 70,000 to 120,000 I move in with 99, guy in second picks up AA which holds up I'm not sure if my moves were right in either case as I've only just started doing large field tourneys and have been 2nd guessing myself about it all day. Any help would be appreciated. :hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kippe6 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Re: 2 hands - right or wrong? your not that desperate yet in my opinion to be pushing with those hands, on the button with no action before good steal. those hands are open to monsters waiting to play after you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Re: 2 hands - right or wrong? Have you played many STTs? They can quickly give you experience in the Business End of the tounament. I would even suggest Turbo's too - whilst most will probably deride them as "crapshoots", I think there's more skill in them than people realise. The essential skill is moving through the gears and knowing what gear to be in at any stage - most get this surprisingly wrong (at low limits). If you haven't read Harrington on Holdem Vol II then I'd say this is a must read. If you play MTTs and haven't read it, and are a little unsure of your end game, you will learn so much by reading it. This thread on Inflection Points discuses probably the most important piece of information in the book. This thread shows the Red Zone in practice. I like your approach - I think more people should understand the merits of it - in poker, there is absolutely no reason to risk your own cash!! A clssic thread from Mr V - How To Start Out in Poker Without Risking Your Own Cash If you want some encouragement - it can be done ;) GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank €1007.85) Hand 1 - My M=3 (140k/45k) - easy shove into an unopened pot for me Hand 2 - M=2.5 (63k/24k) - again - a pair of nines is plenty strong enough for me to shove. I'm doing the same as you in both hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceofjoe Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Re: 2 hands - right or wrong? For once I agree with GaF :tongue2 First Hand less than 4 BB push here Second Hand again less than 4BB its either a Push here, or a push/call whatever cards your playing from the BB next hand. And a pair of 9's is plenty good enough. I also agree that STT's are good experience for these endgame situations, and whilst I agree that Harrington is a good read, from my own experience my game tournament game went a little awry for a month or so after reading it and trying to implement its advice. But it did give me a good general view of what I should be thinking and looking for, and from that advice I eventually adapted its methodologys a little to suit my game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Re: 2 hands - right or wrong? For me A9 in mid position isn't ideal but not the worst. I'm not saying I disagree with Gaf/VoJ and don't blame you for doing so but in your position I'd suggest it depends on how likely it is that you're going to get a call. In hand 2 then as you're UTG with a pocket pair then thats as good a time as any to take a race. Not too bad imho. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Re: 2 hands - right or wrong? I agree with Valiant A9 is debatable although a large % of time I would push. I was only discussing this with Strider recently of the bad shape you can be in when pushing with Ace rag. In hand 2 99 in that situation is an instapush. You did nothing wrong in both hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Re: 2 hands - right or wrong? i agree with most of the above:ok a9 is a bit ropey but you are getting to the point where a push with it is not a bad move. the 9s are a definate push ,even at a slightly earlier point in the game as theres only 5 hands that you are behind to . the blinds are at a point where they are too good not to try and take, and any raise pretty much puts you all in anyway ,so you may as well push in both instances. to actually win one of these large field tourneys you have to have a bit of luck to win.unfortunately you didn't get that luck here with two very good pocket pairs sitting after you, but you have been putting yourself in a good situation to win regularly,so it looks like your on the right track:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effigy Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Re: 2 hands - right or wrong? Thanks for the advice guys, been reading through a lot of the older threads and it seems like there are a lot of serious players on here, and that wisdom is invaluble, I've been thinking that maybe the 99's was the better play as if I don't play them then what am I gonna wait for? I've found out early that you have to win a few coinflips to win a big tourney and when I've 4 BBs left I can't hang around for much better than 9's. Also am I correct in saying ( I've tried working this out off the top of my head ) that if I push from UTG with 9's that there's a 45% chance roughly that one of the other 9 players will have a higher PP? Or am I out of the ballpark with that figure. Anyway I'm sure I'll have more Q's at some point. Cheers guys:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Re: 2 hands - right or wrong? The chance of having a PP is 220-1. The chance of having AA,KK,QQ,JJ,TT should therefore be 220-5 (2.22%) I think :unsure The chance of not having it is therefore 97.78%. (for one player) The chance of 9 consecutive players not having it will be (very) approximately 97.78% ^ 9 I think :unsure That is 81.7% - so the chance of a higher PP is about 18.3% (I THINK :unsure) I could easily be wrong though - how did you get to 45%? (You may persuade me ;) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effigy Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Re: 2 hands - right or wrong? Wow, you're right, i was so out of the ballpark, I have no idea how I got there!! Anyway you're maths makes the push with 9's seem like the right play combined with the game situation. Cheers mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kippe6 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Re: 2 hands - right or wrong? my way your still in the game but i do play very tight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effigy Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Re: 2 hands - right or wrong? Very true kippe, that's why afterwards I was questioning my plays as I play very tight too, as it seems to work very well for most of these freeroll/low buy in tourneys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kippe6 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Re: 2 hands - right or wrong? when i do go i seem to go out with the best hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Re: 2 hands - right or wrong? when i do go i seem to go out with the best hand You will do if you let yourself get blinded away - if you're short stacked, then others will be correct to call you with worse hands, even if they know exactly what you have, they are priced in.... precisely because few hands are that far ahead of other hands pre flop...... that's why it's important (IMO) to bet earlier whilst you still have some fold equity, where your opponents aren't correct to call you with any 2 cards....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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