AJ Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Re: Near Optimal play for 6 Seat 25c/50c Cash? Very very good post. Must have taken ages to do this work, yet you decide to share it with us. Truely in tbest traditions of the PL :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterling Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Re: Near Optimal play for 6 Seat 25c/50c Cash? I think your vpip% with regard to position, is far more important than your vpip in general. And also the ratio between vpip and pfr is important as you highlighted. V interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Re: Near Optimal play for 6 Seat 25c/50c Cash? I think your vpip% with regard to position' date=' is far more important than your vpip in general.[/quote'] Haven't done much work on it yet (and not sure position stats can be obtained other than for individual players) - however have looked individually at some of the most profitable players at this level and the indication is that they dont vary their play by position..... My initial theory is that because the play of your opponents is so poor and eratic at this level, you cannot put them on hands very accurately - therefore success comes solely from playing your own cards, and not considering too much what your opponents may have :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Re: Near Optimal play for 6 Seat 25c/50c Cash? Here's the positional stats for the most profitable (absolute profit) player in my DB.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Re: Near Optimal play for 6 Seat 25c/50c Cash? His profit is over $300 - the numbers above relate only to hands which had 6 players exactly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: Near Optimal play for 6 Seat 25c/50c Cash? Sorry if you say this somewhere and I just missed it, but are your figures for, say, BB/100 at a VP$IP >= 20% for the average player with VP$IP > 20%, or for the average hand played by such players? Also, when you ask PT to filter like this, presumably it tells you how many players (or hands) there are in the filtered dataset? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterling Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: Near Optimal play for 6 Seat 25c/50c Cash? doesnt look right to me that, very little difference in vpip from utg to button Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: Near Optimal play for 6 Seat 25c/50c Cash? doesnt look right to me that' date=' very little difference in vpip from utg to button[/quote'] Whilst I see your point Rob, wouldn't you expect a flatter profile in a 6 max from a full ring table with 9 players ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterling Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: Near Optimal play for 6 Seat 25c/50c Cash? Not at all, possibly even more of a positional bias in 6 max, as there will be more pots folded to you in the cut off and button. Not saying my stats are perfect by any stretch, but at this level, my vpip UTG is 13.64%, UTG+1 is 16.20%, Cut off 21.22% and Button 29.65% and I'm winning most bb / hands on the button 1.06 which is a pretty good rate compared to the 0.15 above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: Near Optimal play for 6 Seat 25c/50c Cash? Sorry if you say this somewhere and I just missed it, but are your figures for, say, BB/100 at a VP$IP >= 20% for the average player with VP$IP > 20%, or for the average hand played by such players? Also, when you ask PT to filter like this, presumably it tells you how many players (or hands) there are in the filtered dataset? I haven't verified, but my expectation is that a VP$IP > 20% will be all the players with an average VP$IP of 20% or more (1 figure per player), and that it is the sum of hands they have played divided by their combined net profit....so.....for example Player 1, 2000 Hands, VPSIP 15%, Profit ($12) Player 2, 3000 Hands, VPSIP 25%, Profit $120 Player 3, 4000 Hands, VPSIP 20%, Profit ($17) Player 4, 5000 Hands, VPSIP 12%, Profit ($33) Player 5, 6000 Hands, VPSIP 22%, Profit ($62) Player 6, 7000 Hands, VPSIP 17%, Profit $99 Player 7, 8000 Hands, VPSIP 26%, Profit ($12) Player 8, 9000 Hands, VPSIP 50%, Profit $3 Player 9, 10000 Hands, VPSIP 2%, Profit $0 Player 10, 11000 Hands, VPSIP 21%, Profit $66 So the BB/100 for VP$IP for >=20% would be: Filter by players 2, 3, 5, 7, 8 and 10 Total Hands: 3000+4000+6000+8000+9000+11000=43,000 Profit: $120+($17)+($62)+($12)+$3+$66=$98 Profit per 100 hands: $98/430=$0.23 BB/100=$0.23/$0.50= 0.46 Yes - for each dataset it tells you how many hands are included in the filter (they're far from statistically significant at this stage....Intend to revisit this when the DB is larger) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Re: Near Optimal play for 6 Seat 25c/50c Cash? doesnt look right to me that' date=' very little difference in vpip from utg to button[/quote'] It seems strange to me as well, however I'm trying to go into it with an open mind rather than just stick to preconceived wisdom (which would make it a pretty pointless exercise if I just accepted established thinking) - do you consider any plausability in the initial hypothesis? (that positional benefit is lower in micro stakes games, due to reduced fold equity, and thus cards are more important) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Re: Near Optimal play for 6 Seat 25c/50c Cash? Still data mining - the biggest loser in my db is nearly $600 down from 496 hands (at 25c/50c) - not surprising looking at his stats!!! VP$IP: 85.08% PFR: 48.59% Unbelievable!!! Here's some hands he's played....and there's LOADS like it :loon ** Game ID 906131181 starting - 2008-01-07 13:48:06 ** Ganton [Hold 'em] (0.25|0.50 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money - SnpCrclPOP sitting in seat 1 with $13.42 - FizzyFT sitting in seat 2 with $56.87 - alvenus sitting in seat 3 with $74.96 - Lolagirl sitting in seat 4 with $58.03 - Attiadju sitting in seat 5 with $127.57 - Luciferic sitting in seat 6 with $27.80 [Dealer] SnpCrclPOP posted the small blind - $0.25 FizzyFT posted the big blind - $0.50 alvenus folded Lolagirl raised - $2.00 Attiadju folded Luciferic called - $2.00 SnpCrclPOP called - $2.00 FizzyFT folded ** Dealing the flop: 9 of Clubs, 8 of Hearts, Ace of Diamonds SnpCrclPOP checked Lolagirl bet - $4.00 Luciferic raised - $8.00 SnpCrclPOP folded Lolagirl called - $8.00 ** Dealing the turn: Ace of Clubs Lolagirl bet - $22.50 Luciferic went all-in - $17.80 ** Dealing the river: 7 of Hearts Luciferic shows: 6 of Spades, 3 of Clubs Lolagirl shows: 6 of Hearts, Ace of Hearts Lolagirl wins $55.10 from the main pot End of game 906131181 ** Game ID 908053412 starting - 2008-01-10 14:20:20 ** Oakmont [Hold 'em] (0.25|0.50 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money - Luciferic sitting in seat 1 with $160.48 - ohbaby sitting in seat 2 with $56.21 - Zolika7 sitting in seat 3 with $23.50 - ynx999 sitting in seat 4 with $25.10 - kokamokka sitting in seat 5 with $50.55 [Dealer] - Boneville sitting in seat 6 with $68.37 Boneville posted the small blind - $0.25 Luciferic posted the big blind - $0.50 ohbaby folded Zolika7 folded ynx999 folded kokamokka called - $0.50 Boneville called - $0.50 Luciferic bet - $2.00 kokamokka called - $2.00 Boneville folded ** Dealing the flop: 8 of Clubs, 10 of Hearts, King of Diamonds Luciferic bet - $4.50 kokamokka called - $4.50 ** Dealing the turn: 10 of Clubs Luciferic bet - $13.50 kokamokka called - $13.50 ** Dealing the river: 5 of Clubs Luciferic checked kokamokka checked Luciferic shows: Queen of Hearts, 4 of Clubs kokamokka shows: 8 of Spades, 9 of Spades kokamokka wins $38.08 from the main pot End of game 908053412 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.