Badly played Aces?

[happyhornet]

This is a hand from last night's focus game where Chess relieved me of a vast proportion of my stack:cry. ***** Hand 760514275 ***** 10.00/20.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 21 September 2007 20:11:30 PL Festival League (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: pl---GaF (2170.00) Seat 2: chess- (2790.00) Seat 3: staffydog (2960.00) Seat 4: hornet01 (2760.00) Seat 5: 1borokp (2890.00) Seat 6: bluepenn (4020.00) Seat 7: Adelita (2830.00) Seat 8: PL-Lady (3640.00) Seat 9: Coach73 (2940.00) staffydog post SB 10.00 hornet01 post BB 20.00 ** Deal ** pl---GaF [N/A, N/A] chess- [N/A, N/A] staffydog [N/A, N/A] hornet01 [As, Ah] 1borokp [N/A, N/A] bluepenn [N/A, N/A] Adelita [N/A, N/A] PL-Lady [N/A, N/A] Coach73 [N/A, N/A] *** Bet Round 1 *** 1borokp Fold bluepenn Fold Adelita Fold PL-Lady Fold Coach73 Fold pl---GaF Fold chess- Raise to 100.00 staffydog Call 100.00 hornet01 Raise to 300.00 chess- Call 300.00 staffydog Call 300.00 *** Flop(Board): *** : [3d, 4s, 8h] *** Bet Round 2 *** staffydog Check hornet01 Bet 500.00 chess- Call 500.00 staffydog Call 500.00 *** Turn(Board): *** : [3d, 4s, 8h, 5c] *** Bet Round 3 *** staffydog Check hornet01 Bet 760.00 chess- Call 760.00 staffydog Fold *** River(Board): *** : [3d, 4s, 8h, 5c, 3h] *** Bet Round 4 *** hornet01 Check chess- Bet 860.00 hornet01 Call 860.00 *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 5640.00 pl---GaF Fold Win: 0.00 chess- [8s, 8c] Full house Win: 5640.00 staffydog Fold Win: 0.00 hornet01 Fold Win: 0.00 1borokp Fold Win: 0.00 bluepenn Fold Win: 0.00 Adelita Fold Win: 0.00 Before I ask you to disect my play, my thinking was that Chess' 5xBB raise and Staffy's subsequent call meant they had a good high pair 9's to KK, AK or AQ. All my actions on the flop and the turn were designed to sweeten the pot and not frighten them off the pot. I only feared a picture card. My check call on the river was down to complete confusion. Should I have played it differently? Should I have considered the set at any point (which I clearly didn't!!)? Thanks in advance Steve:ok

[Glen1000]

Re: Badly played Aces? I would raise it to 600-700 pre flop. I'm happy to take the pot there and then. If Chess calls (which I'm not sure). Then I'm getting it all in on that flop. As you're not re-raise on the flop I would discount AK, QQ & KK. In hindsight the check call on the flop and turn looks like a set. UL;) p.s I usually play cash and one pair by the river is never enough

[Nade]

Re: Badly played Aces? With one raise and call already i would have re-raised to 5-700 as it's unlikely 2 will call this and therefore you minimise the chances of being beaten by a set. Post flop i'd be lying if i said i would have folded my aces but alarm bells would have been ringing after the flop and turn. Only other thing is that i don't like the check on the river as often you're faced with the situation of being raised and then mulling over whether they might be bluffing, is your hand good etc etc. and then curiosity gets the better of you and you call with the worst hand at an inflated price (done it too many times). If you fire out say a 400 bet then it acts as a block if the other person is wary of re-raising then you see a showdown in a situation you're comfortable with. If you fire out 400 and are re-raised then it gives you more information towards the strength of the oppositions hand, and ultimately a bet could win you the pot as continued strength may make the other person give up, though in this situation they wouldn't fold a set they might have just called saving you it turned out 400 chips :ok

[robilaruk]

Re: Badly played Aces?

Before I ask you to disect my play, my thinking was that Chess' 5xBB raise and Staffy's subsequent call meant they had a good high pair 9's to KK, AK or AQ. All my actions on the flop and the turn were designed to sweeten the pot and not frighten them off the pot. I only feared a picture card. My check call on the river was down to complete confusion. Should I have played it differently? Should I have considered the set at any point (which I clearly didn't!!)? Thanks in advance Steve:ok

if you put them on those ranges then why not raise more PF as they have hands to call a larger than normal re-raise with? once chess calls, staffy has great odds to call with ATC (about 4-1) so if he is playing 9 10 s for instance he will call here and hope to flop a monster. I would have personally bet pot at least on the flop, you don't want to let staffy/chess to call cheaply with any draw they might have - once they call your flop bet, I would be concerned about how good my hand is and probably just check/call the turn and river (like you did) so, raise more PF if you put them on such good cards and a decent bet on the flop to shut out the draws (of course chess might well shove your flop bet n which case you need to think about it!) re sweetening the pot - best to sweeten it when you have a made hand, not when you have a nice over pair against 2 oppo's - it is better to win a small pot than lose a big one just my thoughts Damo

[279135]

Re: Badly played Aces? himm... an opponent that constantly calls your bet 'till showdown. it must be very hard to fold AA's but u must saw that something is going wrong with that hand.

[SteveO]

Re: Badly played Aces? The thing is you want to get value for your aces they don't come about too often so I think the preflop reraise is about right( I personally would have made it 500 but they still would have called). You need to lead out on the flop but with 2 callers behind I'm basically done with this hand and not investing anymore money. I think playing AA after the flop is what gets people into the greatest amount of trouble especially in cash games!

[Tweetypie05]

Re: Badly played Aces? I was going to respond to this but as I don't really know what I'm doing probably best not to... on the other hand I can't help sticking my 2p's worth in so here I go. Pre-flop - not a big issue as you have sweetened the pot with your 2x raise. As the pot was already raised and called though I would have been tempted to go bigger as the chances are they have a medium to big pair or AK and you can take the pot down there. I know you want to maximise your wins but the blinds were only 10/20 and the pot was 200 already with 1 raiser and a caller suggesting good hands. A very big bet (6x rather than 3x his bet) would probably not have been called by the 88 or the other hand. At the end of the day it is only 1 pair and by the river you will often be losing. I have fallen into this trap countless times and berated myself later. Flop - I would have bet the pot (1000 chips). Only a set should call this or AA IMO as the pot was raised/re-raised pre-flop suggesting AK or PP. After that you're probably not sure where you are and fact you have at least 1 caller suggests you are in trouble. Never easy to put them down though.

[McG]

Re: Badly played Aces? No hand history, but I played AA badly myself tonight, and am pretty sure that I know where I went wrong, but should I have dug myself out of the hole? Over an hour in to the Paradise $1 challenge, I am near the top of the leaderboard with about 8,500 chips in mid-position. Blinds are at 150/300, and uberPL, with about 4,500 chips, raises UTG (with KdQd, as it turned out) to the regulation 900. I didn't want to frighten him off with my AhAc, so I only raised to 2,100 [looking back, I should have shoved and been happy when he folded and I won the 1,350 chips in the pot], but I tried to play too cleverly :wall:wall:wall. uber calls, and the flop comes 4d3d2d. He checks and I have a decision to make. Do I really put him on 2 diamonds? No, so I shoved, he called, and I'm dead. In hindsight, it was a shi-ite play by me both pre- and post- flop, but should I have been happy to virtually guarantee the smaller amount, or should I have been content, on a very scary board, to check after the flop, and fold to uber's likely bet on the turn or river? Running through my head afterwards was the old adage, "AA is good for winning a small pot or losing a big one", but it's oh so tempting to try to maximum those monster hands. What would YOU have done, oh wise ones? McG :sad

[SteveO]

Re: Badly played Aces? McG you are being too hard on yourself mate, you played it perfectly ok you maybe could have pushed preflop but there's no way you were folding on that board.

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Badly played Aces? to be honest mcg it was a very 50 50 call for me so i could well have folded. i had you on a very strong hand because of the pretty much min raise,in fact i was sort of thinking aces or ks ,qs maybe ak,but you gave me enough to call knowing if i did hit big then chances were i would double up not just get the pot ,as 3 to a flush or straight on the flop a high pp has to bet heavily,but i was always going to be wary on the flop if i only had a pair. a slightly larger raise would have got me out of the hand as kq is not the greatest hand and i would have been pretty crippled ,but you left me enough to see a flop and still get out.if i was on about 3000 chips instead of 4500 i would probly have folded pre flop. i think if it was me i would have raised to at least 2700 ,but probably 3000 this will give you a better idea of what i have if i dont fold(which i would). either take down the pot then or commit a hand you want in the pot with you.if they have a high pp or ak aq then great :nanaif they call or reraise you have a serious edge vs these hands. what you dont want is suited connectors vs your aces ,and your raise just about lets those hands in the pot. in fact i would much rather been playing 10 j than q k in that situation as i would have been less likely to conflict with your hand ,so give me better odds of cracking your presumed great hand . hope seeing my point of view from the hand helps ,like i say it was a 50 50 call preflop but with the lucky flop there wasn't a lot you could do.