Updated Live play rules

[msaban]

Found this article quite interesting, and may be of interest to others who play live. If deemed inappropriate, due to the source being another site, can a moderator remove.Thanks Source: http://www.pokernews.com/news/2007/2/tournament-directors-association-new-poker-rules.htm This past week the Tournament Directors Association (TDA) held meetings at the Venetian Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas. The TDA was founded by Matt Savage, David Lamb, Linda Johnson and Jan Fisher in 2001. The organization meets annually to discuss the addition of new rules and to amend, restructure or eliminate current rules. Over one hundred directors from properties and poker tours throughout the world convened to continue the TDA mission of adopting "basic standards, rules and procedures that will positively impact the Poker Industry." The discussions this week involved both the potential addition of new rules as well as an evauation of how the current set of thirty-eight TDA rules have worked since their adoption. In an interesting twist on what would seem tradition logic, as more and more industry members join and participate in the TDA discussions, the process appears to be coming less rather than more contentious. Most tournament directors have come to recognize that "local rules" are counter-productive to the continued spread of tournament poker. This recognition has led to more compromise and flexibility in the writing and implementation of a standard set of tournament rules. The previous set of 38 rules has growth by only two to the new 40 TDA rules but the changes have been significant. Several rules have been combined to avoid potentially confusing or conflicting interpretations. The wording (or rewording) of many of the rules has come as the result of the close observation by hundreds of floor staff on just how the current set of guidelines have played out in the field through literally thousands of tournament events. The most significant change in the TDA rules are the penalties available for infractions. Gone from all TDA events are the "time penalties." In the past a player could be given 5, 10 or more minutes "away" from the table for a whole range of infractions. In the field or on the felt these time penalites have proven to be less than effective. Players seated at the table could stall to minimize what they felt was an unfair application of the rules or players could hurry play to the point of simply folding hands to blind out a severely short-stacked player on a penalty. Under the new rules, penalties will be given out based on hands played. At the full ten player table, the minimum penalty will be one round of play or ten hands. At the short-handed table the hands out penalty would be fewer hands, basically one hand for each seated player at the time of the infraction. Penalties can go up to four full circuits of the table for severe or repeated violations and, of course, the rules still include potential disqualification. Forty rules will make up the 2007 Tournament Directors Association list, TDA compliance houses will begin using these rules by March 15th. 1 Floor People- Floor people are to consider the best interest of the game and fairness as the top priority in the decision-making process. Unusual circumstances can on occasion dictate that decisions in the interest of fairness take priority over the technical rules. The floor person's decision is final. 2 Chip Race- When it is time to color-up chips they will be raced off with a maximum of one chip going to any player. The chip race will always start in the No.1 seat. A player cannot be raced out of a tournament: Players are encouraged to witness the chip race. 3 Odd Chips- The odd chip(s) will go to the high hand. In flop games when there are two or more high hands or two or more low hands the odd chip(s) will go to the left of the button. In stud games the odd chip will go to the high card by suit. However when hands have identical value (e.g., a wheel in Omaha/8) the pot will be split as evenly as possible. 4 Side Pots- Each side pot will be split separately 5 Calling For a Clock- Once a reasonable amount of time has passed and a clock is called for, a player will be given a maximum of one minute to make a decision. If action has not been taken before time expires, there will be a 10-second countdown. If a player has not acted by the time the countdown is over, the player's hand will be dead. 6 Dead Button- Tournament play will use a dead button. 7 Penalties and Disqualification- A penalty MAY be invoked if a player exposes any card with action pending, throws a card off the table, violates the one-player-to-a-hand rule, or similar incidents take place. Penalties WILL be invoked in cases of soft play, abuse, or disruptive behavior. Penalties available to the TD include verbal warnings and "missed hand" penalties. A missed hand penalty will be assessed as follows: The offender will miss one hand for every player, including the offender, who is at the table when the penalty is given multiplied by the number of rounds specified in the penalty; for the period of the penalty the offender shall remain away from the table. Tournament staff can assess one-, two-, three-, or four-round penalties or disqualification. A player who is disqualified shall have his or her chips removed from play. Repeat infractions are subject to escalating penalties. 8 At Your Seat- A player must be at his or her seat by the time all players have been dealt complete initial hands in order to have a live hand. Players must be at their seat to call time. 9 Face Up- All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all betting action is complete. 10 Raise Requirements- If a player puts in a raise of 50% or more of the previous bet but less than the minimum raise, he or she will be required to make a full raise. The raise will be exactly the minimum raise allowed. In no-limit and pot limit an all-in bet of less than a full raise does not reopen the betting to a player who has already acted. 11 Oversized Chip- A single oversized chip will be considered a call if the player does not announce a raise. If a player puts an oversized chip into the pot and states raise but does not state the amount, the raise will be the maximum allowable up to the size of that chip. After the flop an initial bet of a single oversized chip without comment will constitute the size of the bet. To make a raise with a single oversized chip a verbal declaration must be made before the chip hits the table surface. 12 No Disclosure - No Advice - One Player to a Hand- Players are obligated to protect the other players in the tournament at all times. Therefore, players, whether in the hand or not, may not: 1. Disclose contents of live or folded hands 2. Advise or criticize play before the action is complete 3. Read a hand that hasn't been tabled The one-player-to-a-hand rule will be enforced. 13 Random Seats- Tournament and satellite seats will be randomly assigned. 14 Official Language- The English-only rule will be enforced in the United States during the play of hands. English will be used in international play along with the local or native language. 15 Communication Devices- A player may not use a cellular phone, text-messaging device, or other communication device at the table. 16 Deck Changes- Deck changes will be on the dealer push or level changes or as prescribed by the house. Players may not ask for deck changes 17 New Limits- When time has elapsed in a round and a new level is announced by a member of the tournament staff, the new level applies to the next hand. A hand begins with the first riffle. 18 Re-buys- A player may not miss a hand. If a player announces the intent to re-buy before a new hand begins, that player is playing chips behind and is obligated to make the re-buy. 19 Higher Denomination Chips Visible - Players must keep their higher denomination chips visible at all times. 20 Declarations- Verbal declarations as to the content of a player's hand are not binding; however any player deliberately miscalling his or her hand may be penalized. 21 Rabbit Hunting- No rabbit-hunting is allowed. 22 Dodging Blinds- A player who intentionally dodges (a) blind(s) when moving from a broken table will incur a penalty. 23 Chips Visible- All chips must be visible at all times. Players may not hold or transport tournament chips in any manner that takes them out of view. A player who does so will forfeit the chips and will face disqualification. The forfeited chips will be taken out of play. 24 Breaking Tables- Players going from a broken table to fill in seats assume the rights and responsibilities of the position. They can get the big blind, the small blind, or the button. The only place they cannot get a hand is between the small blind and the button. 25 Balancing Tables- In flop games when balancing tables players will be moved from the big blind to the worst position (which is never the small blind). The table to which a player is moved will be as specified by a predetermined procedure. Play will halt on any table that is at least three players short. In stud games players will be moved by position (the last seat to open up at the short table is the seat to be filled). 26 Raises- There is no cap on the number of raises in no-limit games. A raise must be at least the size of the previous raise. In limit events there will be a limit to raises even when heads-up until the tournament is down to two players; the house limit will apply. 27 Misdeals - In stud games if any of the players' two down cards are exposed due to dealer error it is a misdeal. In flop games exposure of one of the first two cards dealt is a misdeal. Players may be dealt two consecutive cards on the button. 28 Unprotected Hands- If a dealer kills an unprotected hand the player will have no redress and will not be entitled to a refund of bets. However, if a player had raised and the raise had not yet been called, the raise will be returned to the player. 29 Killing Winning Hand- Dealers cannot kill a winning hand that was tabled and was obviously the winning hand. Players are encouraged to assist in reading tabled hands if it appears that an error is about to be made. 30 Verbal Declarations- Verbal declarations in turn are binding. Action out of turn may be binding and will be binding if the action to that player has not changed. A check, call, or fold is not considered action-changing. 31 Exposing Cards- A player who exposes his cards with action pending may incur a penalty, but will not have a dead hand. The penalty will begin at the end of the hand. 32 Methods of Raising- In no-limit or pot-limit a raise must be made by (1) placing the full amount in the pot in one motion; or (2) verbally declaring the full amount prior to the initial placement of chips into the pot; or (3) verbally declaring "raise" prior to the placement of the amount to call into the pot and then completing the action with one additional motion. 33 Ethical Play- Poker is an individual game. Soft play will result in penalties which may include forfeiture of chips and/or disqualification. Chip dumping will result in disqualification. 34 Pot Size- Players are entitled to be informed of the pot size in pot-limit games only. Dealers will not count the pot in limit and no-limit games. 35 Button in Heads-up- When heads-up the small blind is on the button and acts first. When beginning heads-up play the button may need to be adjusted to ensure that no player takes the big blind twice in a row. 36 Etiquette Violations- Repeated etiquette violations will result in penalties. Examples include unnecessarily touching other players cards or chips, delay of the game, and excessive chatter. Players are required to act in turn. 37 Showdown- At the end of last round of betting the player who made the last aggressive action in that betting round must show first. If there was no bet the player to the left of the button shows first and so on clockwise. In stud games the player with the high board must show first. In razz the lowest board shows first. 38 Action Pending- Players must remain at the table if they still have action pending on a hand. 39 String Raises- Dealers will be responsible for calling string raises. 40 Playing the Board- A player must show both cards when playing the board in order to get part of the pot.

[msaban]

Re: Updated Live play rules not sure if any of the UK casino's /card rooms are members of the TDA or compliant, would like to read the difference if there is any.

[Valiant23]

Re: Updated Live play rules Most of those seem familiar according to Stoke Circus rules, and I like the way penalties will be implemented. However I'm confused as to which set of rules are the definitive set. Roberts Rules or the TDA set. Whats the answer dik9? May as well add these in here; Roberts Rules of Poker TDA Rules

[msaban]

Re: Updated Live play rules Cheers Mr V, alot more to Roberts isnt there. alot of these are common sense, but Ive seen quite a few get violated on a regular basis- using mobiles at a table is the obvious one.

[robilaruk]

Re: Updated Live play rules our local casino used the under raise rule which stopped me playing there in the end, coz you cannot protect your hand i.e 50/100 blinds i have AA on the button UTG has 175 chips and is all in, as he did not raise at least the BB all you can do is call The incident: I raise to 300 UTG and the shorty has less than 600 and is all in (he had about 475 or so?), got 4 callers to shoties shove but I cannot reraise to isolate when it gets back to me I had a major row with folks about this - so then i announced I was all in on the flop regardless - and was told that i couldn't say that and my hand was now dead - lets just say the F word was said once or twice :lol Damo

[slapdash]

Re: Updated Live play rules

our local casino used the under raise rule which stopped me playing there in the end, coz you cannot protect your hand i.e 50/100 blinds i have AA on the button UTG has 175 chips and is all in, as he did not raise at least the BB all you can do is call

??? Surely you can raise then? You can always raise when it's your first turn, can't you? I thought the under raise rule only applied when you've already bet and it comes back to you with only an under raise from an all-in.

[Pocket Lady]

Re: Updated Live play rules Stoke casino rules that a players cards are dead if they are not at the table when the 1st cards are dealt. I nipped to the loo and caused a little controversy on Tuesday as the dealer allowed me to play my cards as he still had to deal the 2nd hole cards. This allowed me to play AQ that took a player out A 10, the player that went out was clearly annoyed as were several others that were saying that my hand was dead as I wasn't at the table when the 1st card was dealt.

[slapdash]

Re: Updated Live play rules

I like the way penalties will be implemented.

I agree. In one of my poker dreams, I'm playing heads up with Mike Matusow in the WSOP Main Event. He gets a 10 minute "F-Bomb" penalty, and I have the moral dilemma of whether to play as fast as I can to take as many blinds as I can. It seems much fairer to make a penalty a set number of hands, rather than a set time. Um, ... I only have that dream when I've eaten too much cheese, ... honest! :$

[robilaruk]

Re: Updated Live play rules LOL moral dilemma - I would be AI every hand until he got back I am having every blind I can get for free :dude Damo

I , and I have the moral dilemma of whether to play as fast as I can to take as many blinds as I can.

[dik9]

Re: Updated Live play rules Where to start? Right .... at the moment casino cardrooms in the uk go by house rules, and i suggest every new casino you visit, to read these rules, as they differ from place to place. The TD's in this country are screaming out for a set of universal rules, so all this can be avoided. It is so strange in this industry to have all these rules different, as it has now such a huge demand. I am a member of the TDA, but this has nothing to do with the casino's I worked in. I used some of the TDA rules and some of Roberts Rules of Poker, but due to the guidelines in the UK from the Gaming Board, some rules have to be altered. Thomas Kremser, is a member of the TDA and started his own off, the IPF (International Poker Federation) rules, which differed slightly from the TDA. However he is in the process along with a few TD's to unify all rules in another federation. http://www.worldpokerrules.com/pokerrules.php of which I am also a member of, and these are a lot more extensive. The trouble with TDA IPF and Roberts Rules of Poker, is that they are very limited and open to interpretation. I have my own Rules which complies with the UK guidelines and goes into great detail about each scenario and are greatly based on Caro and Cookes Rules. I don't know whether I can link to it at the moment, as it is another forum. If permission is given then I will link.

robilaruk

our local casino used the under raise rule which stopped me playing there in the end, coz you cannot protect your hand i.e 50/100 blinds i have AA on the button UTG has 175 chips and is all in, as he did not raise at least the BB all you can do is call

If under the gun underraises then anyone can reraise as everyone must have the opportunity to rasie. However the incident you referred to is slightly different.

robilaruk

The incident: I raise to 300 UTG and the shorty has less than 600 and is all in (he had about 475 or so?), got 4 callers to shoties shove but I cannot reraise to isolate when it gets back to me I had a major row with folks about this - so then i announced I was all in on the flop regardless - and was told that i couldn't say that and my hand was now dead - lets just say the F word was said once or twice :lol Damo

If you have raised to 300, and someone has underraised after you, then you cannot reraise unless a full bet has been completed by someone who hasn't had the opportunity of raising yet. The reason you cannot re reraise is because you have already had the opportunity in no limit to raise whatever you like. So lets say you wanted to re re raise 3000 to isolate, you did have the opportunity of making it 3750 in the first place, therefore you are not given the option. This is standard in a decent cardroom. Cheers all :)

[mrmuzeman]

Re: Updated Live play rules

our local casino used the under raise rule which stopped me playing there in the end, coz you cannot protect your hand i.e 50/100 blinds i have AA on the button UTG has 175 chips and is all in, as he did not raise at least the BB all you can do is call

That rule shouldnt exist anywhere, they must have a mistake, you can always raise that if the action hadnt got to you yet.

The incident: I raise to 300 UTG and the shorty has less than 600 and is all in (he had about 475 or so?), got 4 callers to shoties shove but I cannot reraise to isolate when it gets back to me

This isnt the same thing though as youve already acted. There is discrepancies within the rule though, I have encountered 2 types. Say you raise to 300, shorty pushes all in for 450. This is sometimes deemed an underraise and you cant do anything apart from fold or call when it comes to you. Say you raise to 300, shorty pushes all in for 450. This is half of a full raise and thus COUNTS as a raise and the action can be reraised when it comes back to you. Some places require the full raise, some just half of a full raise.

I had a major row with folks about this - so then i announced I was all in on the flop regardless - and was told that i couldn't say that and my hand was now dead - lets just say the F word was said once or twice :lol

That BS as well I think. Its just a bet in the dark, you should be allowed to do this.