Tom Hedonist Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 #Game No : 5654747312 ***** Hand History for Game 5654747312 ***** $5 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, February 08, 07:43:17 ET 2007 Table Table 126532 (Real Money) Seat 5 is the button Total number of players : 10 Seat 7: Hedonists ( $4.90 ) Seat 4: bobrikan ( $7.52 ) Seat 5: Advokat444 ( $12.22 ) Seat 10: KorWin78 ( $7.46 ) Seat 6: RDMUSE ( $6.56 ) Seat 2: bonheur886 ( $1.32 ) Seat 9: phillysk69 ( $5.69 ) Seat 3: AltijdAzen ( $5.78 ) Seat 8: confipoker ( $5.92 ) Seat 1: DaisyDuck666 ( $2.34 ) RDMUSE posts small blind [$0.02]. Hedonists posts big blind [$0.04]. ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to Hedonists [ Kc Kh ] confipoker folds phillysk69 calls [$0.04] KorWin78 folds DaisyDuck666 folds bonheur886 raises [$0.12] AltijdAzen calls [$0.12] bobrikan folds Advokat444 folds RDMUSE raises [$0.28] Hedonists calls [$0.26] phillysk69 calls [$0.26] bonheur886 folds AltijdAzen calls [$0.18] ** Dealing Flop ** [ Ac, Tc, Kd ] RDMUSE checks Hedonists bets [$0.36] phillysk69 is all-In [$5.39] AltijdAzen folds RDMUSE folds Hedonists is all-In [$4.24] ** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ] ** Dealing River ** [ 3d ] Hedonists shows [ Kc, Kh ]three of a kind, Kings. phillysk69 shows [ Jd, Qc ]a straight Ten to Ace. phillysk69 wins $0.79 from side pot #1 with a straight, Ten to Ace. phillysk69 wins $10.02 from the main pot with a straight, Ten to Ace. Did I go wrong, or was I just unlucky? Pre flop, there was a raise and a reraise, so I called. Should I have been more aggressive? In retrospect, that might have knocked the player off his hand? Post flop, I recognised the straight draw was there but I put the player on AK. Any comments gratefully received :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. I would personally have reraised PF and got more money in then and made people pay to draw out to beat me flop - well I can't see how you can let KK go in this situation - just unlucky really, and you are best to go with your reads if you think you are ahead Damo #Game No : 5654747312 ***** Hand History for Game 5654747312 ***** $5 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, February 08, 07:43:17 ET 2007 Table Table 126532 (Real Money) Seat 5 is the button Total number of players : 10 Seat 7: Hedonists ( $4.90 ) Seat 4: bobrikan ( $7.52 ) Seat 5: Advokat444 ( $12.22 ) Seat 10: KorWin78 ( $7.46 ) Seat 6: RDMUSE ( $6.56 ) Seat 2: bonheur886 ( $1.32 ) Seat 9: phillysk69 ( $5.69 ) Seat 3: AltijdAzen ( $5.78 ) Seat 8: confipoker ( $5.92 ) Seat 1: DaisyDuck666 ( $2.34 ) RDMUSE posts small blind [$0.02]. Hedonists posts big blind [$0.04]. ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to Hedonists [ Kc Kh ] confipoker folds phillysk69 calls [$0.04] KorWin78 folds DaisyDuck666 folds bonheur886 raises [$0.12] AltijdAzen calls [$0.12] bobrikan folds Advokat444 folds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick mick Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. Pre-flop you have the second best hand in poker so flat calling is a poor choice. You need to be re-raising to thin the field, probably twice the pot. If you run into aces that's just bad luck, if you take the pot down there and then that's a good (not great) result. Post flop it's very hard to put philly on the straight, AK or flush draw much more likely. Yes you got unlucky but it's muppets like philly you want at your table because in the long run you'll make money off him. Very hard to put down trip kings in this situation so IMHO the pre flop play was where you went wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. meant to add - there would be no shame in folding PF if you think that the re-reraiser had aces - kings are great in cash, but great HU, not in a multi-pot hence why you might re-re-reraise to isolate cheers Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billboard Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. Online any paint cards, any ace looks good to these idiots and they'll put it in on a draw. I had pocket 5's yesterday on Virgin, raised it 4 x BB etc...one called, flop hits the 5 but two spades are on the flop....I know this Scnady will pay me off so I've gone all in for 350$ he calls. He flips over 92 spades...his flush beats my set of course. I'm pi$$ed off about losing the money but 4 times out of 5 he's mine, I reloaded...played my percentages and within the hour busted him and one other Scandy flush hunter. What I'm saying is that play your odds, put you money in with the best of it....sometimes you will come unstuck but more often than not it's you who rakes the pot. One common mistake with bad beat stories is giving away free cards...Slow Play = No Pay. If you've got it get it in...better to win 15$ than to lose 100$. You didn't do anything wrong in my eyes, set of Kings takes a high number of poker pots but the poker goods forecast rain when you KK was dealt. Take heart his money comes you way more than yours goes his BUT alao take heart he probably thinks he's quite good now so will play like that more often.....find him again on the site and fleece him. Good "luck";) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. EXCELLENT - post of the day for me :clap - sums up just what we all should be doing :ok Damo One common mistake with bad beat stories is giving away free cards...Slow Play = No Pay. If you've got it get it in...better to win 15$ than to lose 100$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. EXCELLENT - post of the day for me :clap - sums up just what we all should be doing :ok Damo I was just about to say the same thing, but I have to say I don't think the villains play was particularly terrible. Actually, I do. :$ I'll cover myself and say, 'in a tournament I don't think his play would have been particularly' terrible'. Because with connectors like those you see the flop, miss and ditch and only play on when you hit heavily. This was cash though so to a raise and re-raise he shouldn't have been in the hand at all. To guarantee that a re-raise from you TH would have been the best, as others have already said. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. Sorry Tom, I dont like your slow play pre flop - it's "asking" to be outdrawn. I haven't played 2c/4c but imagine the standard of play is quite poor - and the players call when they should fold - this is the perfect environment for betting your big hands - it may or may not have changed the result in this hand, BUT that doesn't matter - poker is about making the right decisions to earn a long term profit, and I feel you made the wrong decision with this hand pre flop. In response to Damo - sorry mate, NO WAY I EVER fold KK pre flop in a 2c/4c game - at this level, a raise and a reraise doesn't mean what it does at higher levels - you cannot restrict the hand range enough that AA is a big enough possibility - it could just as easily be QQ,JJ,TT ... 22 or AK, AQ, AJ ... A2 - KK is ahead enough of the time at this kind of level that I'm happy to risk my stack regardless of what action there was before.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hedonist Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. Many thanks for all the replies. I've really enjoyed the chance to read your opinions and (hopefully) learn from this. Although it was never my intention to slow play, I'm pretty sure I know where I went wrong now :lol I've only started playing cash tables recently, and tend to be overly cautious. I do alright on the low buy-in S&G's, where I tend to be far more aggressive. I'd like to play more MTT's, but don't often have the time. With the exception of today (when I've ended up $2 down on the day), I generally end up about evens at the cash tables. But it really is a "grind" and I'm not really getting anywhere. I'm not sure if its the level I'm playing at. Although there can be an awful lot of lunatic bets! ...maybe I'd be better off going up a buy-in level on the S&G's, and leaving the cash tables alone for a while. Once again, thanks for the constructive criticism :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tax_Monkey Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. I'm not sure if its the level I'm playing at. Although there can be an awful lot of lunatic bets! :ok Hi Tom, didn't reply to your earlier qustion purely because it had already been answered. However, your last post indicates your not sure if your playing at the right level. If your playing STTs then I believe the current wisdom is no more than 5% of your bankroll. I personally will go to 10-15% if previous experience tells me I can beat the players on that level at that particular site, otherwise I stick to no more than 10%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimar21 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. I read all the suggestions and of course they are great and correct but I wonder if it would change anything if you re-raised, there is a probability that he would still have called since he is a bad player(he shouldn't have re-raised anyways but he did so why not?) Best advice I think is written by Billboard. Find that player everytime you play and let him make you rich.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billboard Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. I remember when I 1st started playing cards (many moons ago) I thought a pocket pair was THE golden hand to have and KK and AA could NEVER be beat, so I'd flat call trying to entice some action. THEN only to lose to 94 off suit in the BB. When the Gutshot was then above a pub in Kingcross now the trandy Clerkenwell bar it is today....none other than John Duthie told me slow play = no pay. From that day forth I've never falt called pre flop....raise or fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hedonist Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. This is what happened the next time I was dealt KK: ***** Hand History for Game 5658259175 ***** $5 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, February 09, 11:26:14 ET 2007 Table Table 127740 (Real Money) Seat 9 is the button Total number of players : 9 Seat 4: xtylez ( $2.48 ) Seat 10: Xvitamin ( $11.92 ) Seat 7: Hedonists ( $5.17 ) Seat 9: franky5555 ( $2.60 ) Seat 6: marcelbeuz ( $8.89 ) Seat 8: steveo667111 ( $3.90 ) Seat 5: Fireball_666 ( $1.88 ) Seat 2: nickk86 ( $2.62 ) Seat 3: ottfried ( $4.88 ) Xvitamin posts small blind [$0.02]. nickk86 posts big blind [$0.04]. ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to Hedonists [ Kh Kd ] ottfried raises [$0.24] xtylez calls [$0.24] nickk86: wow Fireball_666 calls [$0.24] marcelbeuz folds xtylez: oops wrong button Hedonists raises [$0.50] steveo667111 folds franky5555 folds Xvitamin folds nickk86 folds ottfried calls [$0.26] xtylez calls [$0.26] Fireball_666 calls [$0.26] ** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, 2d, Ks ] ottfried checks xtylez checks Fireball_666 checks Hedonists bets [$2] ottfried folds xtylez folds Fireball_666 folds Hedonists does not show cards. Hedonists wins $3.96 :drums :nana :drums Once again, thanks again for all the advice. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterplan Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. imo your raise there was still not enough. in my opinion any re-raise at any point should be etween 3 and 4 times what the person raised, in this case an effective re-raise would be anywhere between $0.72 and $1. that way you wont end up with 3 callers. you dont WANT 3 callers you only want 1 that way your chance of winning the hand greatly increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. Tom - dare I say I still dont like the play :unsure. Nice result :ok but a single result (positive or negative) doesn't signify the right or wrong play.... You had a raiser and 3 callers before you - your raise by 26c is too small to make it correct for any of them to fold, and they did in fact call ..... conventional wisdom (which I'm not convinced I agree with totally, but I dont think you're too far wrong if you aim for it) is to bet enough that you expect to get the pot Heads Up - you have a big hand, you want some action, BUT you dont want to price 3 players in!! I would much prefer a bet of in the region of $1 here (very general - I dont know how the players you are up against were playing and am making some assumptions based on the buy in...........) Conversely - when you hit top trips on a K72 rainbow flop, you are laughing - there is nothing out there to scare you and your bet post flop could have been smaller (even a check giving a free card - you have position) - given the level though, you could put up a strong argument that you could have been called (in which case the bet would have been good) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. Be warned Tom, he's a tough one that Gaf? no pleasing him whatsoever. ;) I think betting big does take some getting used to because you think, "Jeez, I'd only call a $1 raise if I had QQ/KK/AA/AK(?) so if I put a $1 bet out there no one is ever going to call." That is giving the other players WAAYY too much respect. What if a QQ was out there and they were slow playing it, saw your $1 'overbet' as a sign to push? So they do for their stack right there and you are laughing. Still, it was progress but on the next one lets see at least 75c raise pre flop. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hedonist Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. Be warned Tom' date=' he's a tough one that Gaf? no pleasing him whatsoever.[/quote'] "If Bruce Dickinson wants more cowbell, then I think we should give him more cowbell." :dude I played for a couple of hours this morning, and played even more aggressively when I had good hands. As a result I trebled what I took to the table :eek A couple of days ago, playing the same cards against the same opponents, I would have ended up about a $1 up. I'll let you know how that 75c pre-flop raise goes :hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. I'll let you know how that 75c pre-flop raise goes :hope Just checking - the 75c bet is in response to a raise to 25c .... i.e. 3x what the raiser put in .... it's not 75c into an unraised pot or a smaller raise before you ..... :unsure Jeep up the good work :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Re: Could I get some feedback on this hand, please. to clarify - I meant folding KK in general, not this game in particular sometimes it is correct to fold KK PF In this game I would be getting my money in as quick as I could Damo ***************************** In response to Damo - sorry mate, NO WAY I EVER fold KK pre flop in a 2c/4c game - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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