Hand to discuss Part 2

[^Newbie^]

Right , finally final table and with all the rebuys and addons during the first hour , 3rd gets paid $40 . 1st and 2nd gets automatic qualification to the $125k Guranteed . My tourney ends with this hand . Comments ? ** Game ID 1022084323 starting - 2006-11-06 13:54:23 ** $125,000 Qualifier[641174]:Table 1 [Multi Table Hold 'em] (300.00|600.00 No Limit - MTT)[ignore this Blinds were 150/300] Real Money - kongguyoulan sitting in seat 1 with $2290.00 - willyc4786 sitting in seat 2 with $2830.00 - tikabj1 sitting in seat 3 with $7695.00 - BORNWINNER1 sitting in seat 4 with $4225.00 - bjoerkaas11 sitting in seat 6 with $4620.00 - jerryg1270 sitting in seat 7 with $7500.00 [Dealer] - Gift sitting in seat 8 with $6180.00 - iamspanish sitting in seat 9 with $6210.00 Gift posted the small blind - $150.00 iamspanish posted the big blind - $300.00 ** Dealing card to BORNWINNER1: 7 of Spades, 7 of Clubs [Looks like a good hand to start and in Mid-position [correct me if i'm wrong :loon:loon:loon:loon]] kongguyoulan folded willyc4786 folded tikabj1 folded BORNWINNER1 raised - $1500.00 bjoerkaas11 folded jerryg1270 called - $1500.00 Gift folded iamspanish folded [Decided to make the big raise here as the table was extremely tight, no one really making any big moves and raises seems to lead people to fold pretty easily.Decided to make this big move to further increase my stack . But someone called . OH OH was my initial thoughts] ** Dealing the flop: 8 of Clubs, 8 of Hearts, 8 of Diamonds [OH FullHouse . But wait , does he have anything ?] BORNWINNER1 went all-in - $2725.00 jerryg1270 called - $2725.00 [bIG RISK i have to take here , I hope to convince him i have an extremely high pair thereby forcing him to fold and earn some good pot] jerryg1270 shows: King of Clubs, King of Spades [Fcuking virtually dead and the only miracle was a split pot :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol] ** Dealing the turn: 2 of Diamonds ** Dealing the river: Queen of Hearts jerryg1270 wins $8900.00 from the main pot End of game 1022084323 Could i have gotten out of this hand to begin with ?

[viggosen]

Re: Hand to discuss Part 2 ??? You didn`t make a big raise you made a very small raise of only 2½BB, which potcomitted you, which i hate. In this hand it didn´t matter, because you are always going broke with that flop, no matter how you play it, thats the dream flop for you, and that somebody else have a bigger pair thats just to bad. But say someone sits with 2 highcards, then he knows that he will hit 1 of them 1/3 of the times on the flop, and then you will have put more than a third of you stack in preflop out of position, most likely he will break you if he hits. Your stack is 7 BB, go all-in preflop.

[slapdash]

Re: Hand to discuss Part 2

??? You didn`t make a big raise you made a very small raise of only 2½BB' date='[/quote'] I think it was 5xBB. The text of the HH says blinds of $150 and $300 were posted, but at the top it says 300|600. :unsure Same on his "Part 1" hand. The blinds at the top of the HH are double those in the text. Very strange.

[^Newbie^]

Re: Hand to discuss Part 2 hmmm , if you didn't mention that , i didn't realise that :loon:loon:loon:loon The blinds at that time was defo 150/300 . Not too sure why the heading reads 300/600 though .

[slapdash]

Re: Hand to discuss Part 2 Just looked at some Prima hand histories, and they all seem to do that! I'd never noticed before.

[^Newbie^]

Re: Hand to discuss Part 2 :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol Now we do now :unsure

Just looked at some Prima hand histories, and they all seem to do that! I'd never noticed before.

[Valiant23]

Re: Hand to discuss Part 2 Pocket 7's are a med-small pocket pair I don't really want to represent anything here so for me its a flat call because I want more information. That may come from a raise later (as the villain would have probably made). This gives you a warning that you are at least up against 2 overcards and prepares you to be ready to drop them against an unfriendly flop if you call the raise. Personally I think that is the mistake. You didn't have the stack to make such a big raise with such a weak hand. The only callers you are going to get are hands that are better than yours and maybe AK/AQ. So the flop comes 888. Now had you limped them called a raise its possible that you could represent a weak A, which would have planted a tiny seed of doubt, but you won't get me to drop KK here. If I lose to AA or quads then so be it. To recap. You make a raise and get called. The flop gives no help in allowing you to define where you are in the hand. Now you have information that is telling you that you are likely to be behind in the hand, and you go all in. Sorry mate but I think as soon as you got called you tilted. Why can I say that? Because had the flop come A , x, x you would have claimed you were trying to represent the Ace. Had the flop been all clubs you would say you were trying to represent the flush. You would have pushed because you didn't know where you were in the hand and that is the key fact that I've seen in your play before. Look I know this comes across as harsh but I've nothing against you. However part of poker is recognising your position in a hand and I think this is a leak in your game you need to fix to progress.

[^Newbie^]

Re: Hand to discuss Part 2 Well said mate , do not worry about criticising me as i don't think i'm up there yet . I rather get fcuked in tourneys like this rather than get fcuked in those huge ones . I think it kind of shows my inexperience out there . Basically i think Part 1 and Part 2 are the only plays i made which are poor for that 125k qualifier . I'll be going for another go as soon as i saw less entries the next time round . So i just wanted some feedback or response on my plays . :ok Trying to get out of the freeroll mode as sometimes being patient doesn't pay off in freerolls due to the many muppets out there . Trying to upgrade my style of plays to paid MTT at the moment . Transtition should take some time to get used to it . So , make mistakes now rather than later should be a good way to minimise losses in the near future .

Pocket 7's are a med-small pocket pair I don't really want to represent anything here so for me its a flat call because I want more information. That may come from a raise later (as the villain would have probably made). This gives you a warning that you are at least up against 2 overcards and prepares you to be ready to drop them against an unfriendly flop if you call the raise. Personally I think that is the mistake. You didn't have the stack to make such a big raise with such a weak hand. The only callers you are going to get are hands that are better than yours and maybe AK/AQ. So the flop comes 888. Now had you limped them called a raise its possible that you could represent a weak A, which would have planted a tiny seed of doubt, but you won't get me to drop KK here. If I lose to AA or quads then so be it. To recap. You make a raise and get called. The flop gives no help in allowing you to define where you are in the hand. Now you have information that is telling you that you are likely to be behind in the hand, and you go all in. Sorry mate but I think as soon as you got called you tilted. Why can I say that? Because had the flop come A , x, x you would have claimed you were trying to represent the Ace. Had the flop been all clubs you would say you were trying to represent the flush. You would have pushed because you didn't know where you were in the hand and that is the key fact that I've seen in your play before. Look I know this comes across as harsh but I've nothing against you. However part of poker is recognising your position in a hand and I think this is a leak in your game you need to fix to progress.

[robilaruk]

Re: Hand to discuss Part 2 limping is poor - don't limp if you are first into the pot - especiallly in this situation - raise or fold - and if it a tight table a raise to 900 should suffice - by raising to 1500 you are committing yourself ok you got a call - I would also shove the flop - if he has a bigger PP you are UL - the flop helped you - how can you say it didn't Val? no over cards come which are his most likely holdings - only a bigger PP beats you and there are only 6 of them - IMO the villian played it poorly PF - if an Ace hits then what? - he should have reraised PF to define his hand, not the other way around I can't see much wrong with this except raise less if its a tight table and think about the game - did you need to play the hand at all? Damo

Pocket 7's are a med-small pocket pair I don't really want to represent anything here so for me its a flat call because I want more information. That may come from a raise later (as the villain would have probably made). This gives you a warning that you are at least up against 2 overcards and prepares you to be ready to drop them against an unfriendly flop if you call the raise. Personally I think that is the mistake. You didn't have the stack to make such a big raise with such a weak hand. The only callers you are going to get are hands that are better than yours and maybe AK/AQ. So the flop comes 888. Now had you limped them called a raise its possible that you could represent a weak A, which would have planted a tiny seed of doubt, but you won't get me to drop KK here. If I lose to AA or quads then so be it. To recap. You make a raise and get called. The flop gives no help in allowing you to define where you are in the hand. Now you have information that is telling you that you are likely to be behind in the hand, and you go all in. Sorry mate but I think as soon as you got called you tilted. Why can I say that? Because had the flop come A , x, x you would have claimed you were trying to represent the Ace. Had the flop been all clubs you would say you were trying to represent the flush. You would have pushed because you didn't know where you were in the hand and that is the key fact that I've seen in your play before. Look I know this comes across as harsh but I've nothing against you. However part of poker is recognising your position in a hand and I think this is a leak in your game you need to fix to progress.

[^Newbie^]

Re: Hand to discuss Part 2 I see an opporunity to increase my stack as i have said , not much action being played in the final table . Flop gives a full house , if i bet little and he flat calls , i'm dead as well . If he raises , its hard to see me folding too . Don't think there's anything i can do once the set of 8s came on the flop .

limping is poor - don't limp if you are first into the pot - especiallly in this situation - raise or fold - and if it a tight table a raise to 900 should suffice - by raising to 1500 you are committing yourself ok you got a call - I would also shove the flop - if he has a bigger PP you are UL - the flop helped you - how can you say it didn't Val? no over cards come which are his most likely holdings - only a bigger PP beats you and there are only 6 of them - IMO the villian played it poorly PF - if an Ace hits then what? - he should have reraised PF to define his hand, not the other way around I can't see much wrong with this except raise less if its a tight table and think about the game - did you need to play the hand at all? Damo

[AJ]

Re: Hand to discuss Part 2

To recap. You make a raise and get called. The flop gives no help in allowing you to define where you are in the hand. Now you have information that is telling you that you are likely to be behind in the hand, and you go all in. Sorry mate but I think as soon as you got called you tilted.

Have to agree with this, the raise was too big preflop, I see what you did as a blind steal. Anyone calling this at the final table will have a good hand, you must assume everyone to be decent players at this stage. Only realistic calling hand your ahead of it AKs. You've got to put him on a high pocket pair JJ or above. Flop comes, and you get a full house, you must put him on one too. The push of $2775 is pure petulance, any realistic read of the situation has you behind. I'd fold the full house without a problem. The best hands the great players play, are the good folds of huge hands You still have a reasonable stack, walk away and continue playing. When playing online & I'm in a pot, I have a rule that my hands come off the mouse while the other person is acting, and I don't touch the mouse for ten seconds (I sit on my hands), saved a fortune in rash decisions Great thread though.

[Valiant23]

Re: Hand to discuss Part 2

Have to agree with this, the raise was too big preflop, I see what you did as a blind steal. Anyone calling this at the final table will have a good hand, you must assume everyone to be decent players at this stage. Only realistic calling hand your ahead of it AKs. You've got to put him on a high pocket pair JJ or above. Flop comes, and you get a full house, you must put him on one too. The push of $2775 is pure petulance, any realistic read of the situation has you behind. I'd fold the full house without a problem. The best hands the great players play, are the good folds of huge hands You still have a reasonable stack, walk away and continue playing. When playing online & I'm in a pot, I have a rule that my hands come off the mouse while the other person is acting, and I don't touch the mouse for ten seconds (I sit on my hands), saved a fortune in rash decisions Great thread though.

Fools has managed to say what I tried to 50 times earlier on tonight. Thank you. :ok Its basic strategy that mid pairs play better in family pots than in HU situations. Why create a dream situation for a big ppr or AK? I say limp and try and get a cheap flop, or muck em and wait for a monster.

[^Newbie^]

Re: Hand to discuss Part 2 Pointed noted as well mate :ok

Fools has managed to say what I tried to 50 times earlier on tonight. Thank you. :ok Its basic strategy that mid pairs play better in family pots than in HU situations. Why create a dream situation for a big ppr or AK? I say limp and try and get a cheap flop, or muck em and wait for a monster.