Contentious decision at Grosvenor this afternoon...

[jeffster]

I made the final table at Grosvenor today, in the "£20 Shootout", finishing 9th out of 33 runners, but didnt cash, as the top 7 were paid... However, I felt aggrieved and disadvantaged by a hand that happened when 10 runners, played on two tables of 5 players, were still in the tourney... With the blinds at 400 and 800, I raise to 2,500 with King Queen of Spades..... The dealer folds... Small blind folds.... Then the dealer (a young lad playing in his first live game I think, I have never seen him at a casino before...) stretches out both his arms, and starts scooping the cards in towards him.... As a reaction to this, I muck my cards.... After I have mucked my cards, the big blind says "I havent made a decision yet !"... We call the card room manager for a ruling... The ruling is that my chips must go un-contested to the big blind ! The dealer said "I was just tidying up the deck..." I pointed out that I felt I had been disadvantaged through the actions of someone else, the dealer scooping the deck towards him, but the ruling stood.... To compound matters, in the break before the final table, the woman who was in the big blind who benefitted from the ruling said that she felt the decision was harsh, and that with Ace rag, she would not have called my raise ! I made the final table with just 2,500 chips, and went out when my all in push with pockets 6's (blinds were now 500 / 1,000) made a full house, but got rivered by a higher full house....

[Tax_Monkey]

Re: Contentious decision at Grosvenor this afternoon... Unfortunately I think the ruling was correct, however the dealers actions affected your decision it is for you to protect your hand and part of this is being aware of who has (or hasn't) called. I agree the dealer in question needs a good talking to for acting before the round is finished but regardless of this you mucked your hand.

[AJ]

Re: Contentious decision at Grosvenor this afternoon...

Unfortunately I think the ruling was correct, however the dealers actions affected your decision it is for you to protect your hand and part of this is being aware of who has (or hasn't) called. I agree the dealer in question needs a good talking to for acting before the round is finished but regardless of this you mucked your hand.

100% agree, it's your responsibility to know who has folded and who hasn't. You must have known where the blinds were, don't understand why you mucked your cards in reaction to the dealer picking up other cards. sorry, harsh but correct, having said that, the dealer shouldn't touch the mucked cards until the hand is over. There is the risk that a card will be exposed.

[Valiant23]

Re: Contentious decision at Grosvenor this afternoon...

Then the dealer (a young lad playing in his first live game I think, I have never seen him at a casino before...) stretches out both his arms, and starts scooping the cards in towards him....

I take it this tourney is self dealt? If it is someone should have patiently suggested that he should take the muck cards into the muck pile immediately in order to avoid confusion. In fact even though we have casino dealers at all our games I think its up to the players watch the dealers are acting correctly. Unfortunately however once your cards have been mucked (and this includes accidentally touching other mucked cards) then the hand is over. Most poker tourneys are run according to Roberts Rules (or a very close variation); http://www.pokercoach.us/RobsPkrRules4.htm although there is this helpful site for questions such as this; http://www.pokertda.com/ :ok

having said that, the dealer shouldn't touch the mucked cards until the hand is over. There is the risk that a card will be exposed.

Sorry Fools, as you can see by my reply I disagree. I feel the dealer should rake the mucked cards as players fold into a muck pile. Most dealers I have watched do this.

[AJ]

Re: Contentious decision at Grosvenor this afternoon... interesting links thanks, I play 2 weekly live games in pubs, and in both of them muck cards, remain face down till the hand is over. I guess they are a bit more formal in casinos than my local pub

[jeffster]

Re: Contentious decision at Grosvenor this afternoon...

I take it this tourney is self dealt? If it is someone should have patiently suggested that he should take the muck cards into the muck pile immediately in order to avoid confusion. In fact even though we have casino dealers at all our games I think its up to the players watch the dealers are acting correctly. Unfortunately however once your cards have been mucked (and this includes accidentally touching other mucked cards) then the hand is over. Most poker tourneys are run according to Roberts Rules (or a very close variation); http://www.pokercoach.us/RobsPkrRules4.htm although there is this helpful site for questions such as this; http://www.pokertda.com/ :ok Sorry Fools, as you can see by my reply I disagree. I feel the dealer should rake the mucked cards as players fold into a muck pile. Most dealers I have watched do this.

Yes, Val.... All tournaments at both the Grosvenor and Stanleys in Bristol are self dealt until the final table, when a dealer is provided... Supposedly, all tournaments in the card room at the new Gala Casino, will be dealer dealt entirely, when the card room opens, supposedly in January 2007...