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Muppet city

Galronix

By Galronix
in Poker

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Galronix

Galronix

Posted
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I've just got knocked out of a £5 MTT Freezeout on HoldemPoker by a muppet with .............

Hand 998374343, Started at 14/09/2006 13:01 Table 'Helsingborg': 20-20 No Limit HE (TournamentChips) Seat 0: stookermo (4,595 in chips) Seat 1: Galronix (700 in chips) Seat 2: ASS072 (1,160 in chips) Seat 3: muddy&waters (3,685 in chips) Seat 4: mordiharbart (2,290 in chips) Seat 5: xxx chunk (3,065 in chips) Seat 6: karolz (5,605 in chips) Seat 7: lewilove23 (1,005 in chips) Seat 8: melbourne863 (1,430 in chips) Seat 9: kowa30 (2,990 in chips) (on the button) *** Blind Bet Round *** : Dealt to Galronix: As Dealt to Galronix: Ad stookermo : Post Blind (25) Galronix : Post Blind (50) *** Pre-Flop *** : Dealt to Galronix: As Dealt to Galronix: Ad Dealt to lewilove23: 5c Dealt to lewilove23: 9c ASS072 : Call (50) muddy&waters : Fold mordiharbart : Call (50) xxx chunk : Call (50) karolz : Fold lewilove23 : Bet (1,005) lewilove23 : All In (1,005) melbourne863 : Fold kowa30 : Fold stookermo : Fold Galronix : Call (650) Galronix : All In (700) ASS072 : Fold mordiharbart : Fold xxx chunk : Fold *** Flop *** : 8s 2c 6d *** Turn *** : [ 8s 2c 6d ] 7h *** River *** : [ 8s 2c 6d 7h ] 5h Dealt to Galronix: As Dealt to Galronix: Ad Dealt to lewilove23: 5c Dealt to lewilove23: 9c lewilove23 : Show Cards Galronix : Show Cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: 1,880 | Rake: 0 Board: [ 8s 2c 6d 7h 5h ] stookermo lost 25 Galronix lost 700 Shows [ As Ad ] (a pair of Aces) ASS072 lost 50 muddy&waters lost 0 mordiharbart lost 50 xxx chunk lost 50 karolz lost 0 lewilove23 bet 1,005, collected 1,880, net 875 Shows [ 5c 9c ] (a straight, nine high) melbourne863 lost 0 kowa30 lost 0
Perhaps I shoulda put this in the "Pokers fixed" post :wall :wall :wall
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GaF

GaF

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Re: Muppet city Unbelievably bad all in by your opponent - no sense to it whatsoever - I'm not arguing with that at all....... ....but...... Did you know that you were ONLY an 81% favourite? You WILL lose 1 time in 5!!!!!! It shouldn't be that much of a shock to see him win.......

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Galronix

Galronix

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Re: Muppet city

Unbelievably bad all in by your opponent - no sense to it whatsoever - I'm not arguing with that at all....... ....but...... Did you know that you were ONLY an 81% favourite? You WILL lose 1 time in 5!!!!!! It shouldn't be that much of a shock to see him win.......
lol...it was only my 4th time I'd got them :loon
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Hodgey

Hodgey

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Re: Muppet city

Unbelievably bad all in by your opponent - no sense to it whatsoever - I'm not arguing with that at all....... ....but...... Did you know that you were ONLY an 81% favourite? You WILL lose 1 time in 5!!!!!! It shouldn't be that much of a shock to see him win.......
Should you fold Aces 1 time in 5 then? ;)
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GaF

GaF

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Re: Muppet city

So much for showing sympathy ya cnuts!!! :lol:lol:lol
Lol - you should know by now - I have no sympathy for bad beat stories at all - they're normal, they're boring, they happen to us all!!!! I mean 81%-19%?? Hardley a rare occurance!!! (sorry Gal!!) Now this was mildly interesting, from the exceptionally bad play of his opponent - not from the AA getting turned over..... You can GUARANTEE with absolute certainty - his opponent is NOT a winning player!!! (though may occasionally win with short run variance - which is GOOD for the rest of us - he will come back and lose even more money!!!)
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AJ

AJ

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Re: Muppet city You know I've read this thread about 5 times now, and I'm coming to the conclusion that the guy actually made the correct call pushing from a poker theory point of view. Sure he was a 19% dog when the money went in, but there is no way he could know this. For me it's about 'm', his was low, he had 1k in chips was short stacked compared to most of the table, I think the theory says you need to make a move when 'm' is below 10. His wasn't quite that low, but the next increase in blinds would have taken him there. He was rapidly getting to a point where his raises lack credability, once he gets to 5- 7 BB and below his all in is going to be called by all the big stacks, then checked to the river simply as a value prop. There was 250 in chips on the table, he could most likely get away with a blind steal here, and buy himself 2 - 3 laps of the table, he's in a quite late position he knows callers will be limited or zero. If he gets a single caller, most likely with a pocket pair, he has a flush draw and a straight draw, yes he's behind but he has a chance. Not pushing gives him a smaller chance overall. He needs to double up or exit, he can't limp and wait for cards, he'll be blinded out. In a cash game, what he did was crazy, but in a tournement I think it was a bold, but not stupid move, I'd most likely have done exactlly the same in his postion, and I am a (just) winning player over the medium term.

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Galronix

Galronix

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Re: Muppet city

You know I've read this thread about 5 times now, and I'm coming to the conclusion that the guy actually made the correct call pushing from a poker theory point of view. Sure he was a 19% dog when the money went in, but there is no way he could know this. For me it's about 'm', his was low, he had 1k in chips was short stacked compared to most of the table, I think the theory says you need to make a move when 'm' is below 10. His wasn't quite that low, but the next increase in blinds would have taken him there. He was rapidly getting to a point where his raises lack credability, once he gets to 5- 7 BB and below his all in is going to be called by all the big stacks, then checked to the river simply as a value prop. There was 250 in chips on the table, he could most likely get away with a blind steal here, and buy himself 2 - 3 laps of the table, he's in a quite late position he knows callers will be limited or zero. If he gets a single caller, most likely with a pocket pair, he has a flush draw and a straight draw, yes he's behind but he has a chance. Not pushing gives him a smaller chance overall. He needs to double up or exit, he can't limp and wait for cards, he'll be blinded out. In a cash game, what he did was crazy, but in a tournement I think it was a bold, but not stupid move, I'd most likely have done exactlly the same in his postion, and I am a (just) winning player over the medium term.
Well as he had 6 more hands to hit better than 9 6s, and I'm not just saying it because I lost the hand but I can't agree. He had 20 x the BB which all the books, tapes and programes all say that you should start to make a move when you have less that 10 x the BB. If however it was a STT then that would make sense but is was an MTT. At the end of the day he won, I lost, thats poker but any other day my A's would have held up.
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GaF

GaF

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Re: Muppet city

For me it's about 'm'' date=' his was low, he had 1k in chips was short stacked compared to most of the table, I think the theory says you need to make a move when 'm' is below 10. [/quote'] Sorry mate - can't agree...... His M was 13.5. According to Harrington, then an M of below 1 is the dead zone, and M between 1 and 5 is the red zone, The orange zone is an M of 6 - 10, Yellow zone is 10 - 20 and an M of over 20 is Green. So our villain finds himself in the Yellow Zone. He's nowhere near needing to panic just needs to loosen up a bit (or tighten up with low pairs and suited connectors). As Galronix says as well, this is MTT strategy with a top heavy pay structure, in an STT with a flatter pay structure I feel you should be "sitting tight" longer than you would in an MTT...... Agree with most of Galronix's comment (just not in looking at the result - that is irrelevent to what the right decision was, poker is a long run game where you need to make the right decisions, not get the right results!!!!! The result of any individual hand is irrelevent and should not be considered in analysing your decision making process)
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slapdash

slapdash

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Re: Muppet city

As Galronix says as well, this is MTT strategy with a top heavy pay structure, in an STT with a flatter pay structure I feel you should be "sitting tight" longer than you would in an MTT......
Doesn't that mean the villain's all-in is a better play than it would have been in an STT? I agree that I don't like the all-in, but it's far from the worst play I've seen. He's not as short-stacked as I'd have to be to make this kind of move, but he is short-stacked. It's certainly a much better play than calling with a rubbish hand, as they do in a lot of these "What a muppet!" threads.
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GaF

GaF

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Re: Muppet city

Doesn't that mean the villain's all-in is a better play than it would have been in an STT? I agree that I don't like the all-in, but it's far from the worst play I've seen. He's not as short-stacked as I'd have to be to make this kind of move, but he is short-stacked. It's certainly a much better play than calling with a rubbish hand, as they do in a lot of these "What a muppet!" threads.
Ooops - I thought this was an STT :$ IMO this kind of play is less bad in an MTT than an STT!!!! As you say though - if you are going to make a mistake in poker - far better to make it as the aggressor....... Would I be right in thinking that for this to be a break even play it would need something like a fold 70% of the time, a call and win 10% of the time and a call and lose 20% of the time (very very roughly)?? SO if he can get past everyone 2 times in 3, it's an ok move ...... :unsure
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Jaded

Jaded

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Re: Muppet city Not that this is at all surprising, but I'm agreeing that his shove is the right thing to do here, or certainly not a horrendous play. Okay, against AA/KK/whatever, he SHOULD be screwed. But if Gal has anything half decent, like KTs, then he has to seriously think about whether he wants to risk his tourney against someone who could have a real hand. If he has junk, he obviously has to throw it. The guys who flat called could be slow playing, but are likely to want to see the flop cheaply and will fold. More importantly, IMO, once a table's seen you go all in with 59, then hey, you're laughing. They're convinced you're a maniac, you tighten up, and holy cow, you have a bunch of bunnies. Despite all that, horribly unlucky Gal :puke

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Pokerose

Pokerose

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Re: Muppet city

More importantly, IMO, once a table's seen you go all in with 59, then hey, you're laughing. They're convinced you're a maniac, you tighten up, and holy cow, you have a bunch of bunnies.
or, alternatively.. once a table'ss seen you go all in with 59 and you LOSE, they can think, "well, serves him right for going all in with 59- hes obviously an idiot"
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GaF

GaF

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Re: Muppet city

or' date=' alternatively.. once a table'ss seen you go all in with 59 and you LOSE, they can think, "well, serves him right for going all in with 59- hes obviously an idiot"[/quote'] :lol :lol :lol :lol That sounded like it REALLY came from the heart Rosie :ok
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AJ

AJ

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Re: Muppet city

or, alternatively.. once a table'ss seen you go all in with 59 and you LOSE, they can think, "well, serves him right for going all in with 59- hes obviously an idiot"
that doesn't matter, because if he loses he gone from the table and the tourenment, from an image point of view, it's a no brainer. Interesting debate, I think very strongly if you're going out, you should go out fighting while you have chips and take a chnace, much better than with a whimper being blinded out. On the subject of "m" if this guy had 13.5 then surely Gal with 700 was much lower and was in the red zone and should have attacked earlier ? (not criticising your play at all btw, I only play tournements so find tournement strategy very interesting)
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