APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

[Tax_Monkey]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) :ok

[morlspin]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

Of course I apologise for my misunderstanding of what the poster was getting at. Clearly I need a good nights sleep to help me avoid these misjudgements !

Too many shandys on bank holiday monday mate?

[APAT]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Its a long story! For the record I've passed the "phising scam" concern onto my MD and techie people Cheers

[Burnley Joe]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Nice One APAT At last a company that listens to players concerns :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

[jarjaruk]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) When is the draw for seats to the tourny in September again? I understand that I only have a miniscule chance of getting one, but its still quite exciting.

[Burnley Joe]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) you have to register on the 31st i think

[msaban]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) I think its already stated on the thread, that the draw is at midday on the 4th Sept and youve then got until the 8th to pay

[PokerBarney]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) "We would appreciate if you would withdraw what is a reckless comment and completely without foundation." You're welcome. Thanks to PL for backing me up on this one. APAT is looking more and more like it's run *by* amateurs, not *for* them...

[DesD]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Hi everyone, Thanks for all of the support you have shown us and your participation on August 19 - where Burnley Joe gave a great display of 'hanging in there' poker. I think this Saturday will be interesting..... On dates, we will draw from the list of members as of midnight on September 3rd. That would be the key date for inclusion. Regards, Des.

[DesD]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

APAT is looking more and more like it's run *by* amateurs' date=' not *for* them...[/quote'] I guess it's an unforgiving world....... Regards, Des.

[Burnley Joe]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) "Hanging In There" thats true, but that was with the ladyboys at that time in the morning!

[Jaded]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

I guess it's an unforgiving world....... Regards, Des.

In fairness to Barney, APAT has hardly inspired confidence so far in this thread. I'm sure those in charge are learning from their mistakes...:hope

[jarjaruk]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

I guess it's an unforgiving world....... Regards, Des.

Not true Des, Not everyone is going to be so quick to slate APAT until they've given you a chance. I for one am still looking forward to seeing what happens in the draw on Saturday (thanks MSA for the info, I knew it was about somewhere but couldn't find it). I have been doing a lot of reading about APAT and have spoken to a friend who works for the World Poker Tour and he has a lot of contacts so obviously he gets hold of more information than we normally do. I think it might be time for people to just wait and see what happens and maybe stop slagging them off before its even up and running properly. I don't want to start any arguments or backlashes against me, but I really hate to see things slated before they've even got off the ground properly. But that's just my opinon.

[DesD]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

I think it might be time for people to just wait and see what happens and maybe stop slagging them off before its even up and running properly.

I think that is very fair. Cheers, Des.

[DesD]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

In fairness to Barney' date=' APAT has hardly inspired confidence so far in this thread. I'm sure those in charge are learning from their mistakes...:hope[/quote'] Hi Jaded, We have achieved a great deal under the surface, like the agreements with PokerStars for added value, with PokerPlayer for media exposure, and with the GC on standardised rules. And there are some very significant deals in the pipeline also. It is really challenging to gain the confidence and trust of the players, and rightly so. We will only ever get that by listening and acting for you. However, we are breaking new ground here, so realistically mistakes will occur in the early days. I can assure you that we will not be slow to learn from them. Regards, Des.

[Sharpe1ne]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

"We would appreciate if you would withdraw what is a reckless comment and completely without foundation." You're welcome. Thanks to PL for backing me up on this one. APAT is looking more and more like it's run *by* amateurs, not *for* them...

Jeez Barney you get an apology after recieving a comment on your post then go out and post a comment like this. Pot Kettle and Black come to mind. I believe after phenominal interest in a competition way beyond expectation that APAT should be given a chance.They are following up all lines of enquiry that we put to them and also trying to sort out the competiton and probably many more sites and customers. If your not interested in this anymore,as it seem's, why not sit back and let the first event play before making any more derogatory comments.:ok

[Sharpe1ne]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Oh and I do think my idea is best Have an online password protected freeroll tourny for all apat members on pokerstars and when the field hits 120 invite these players to play at the card club.

[jarjaruk]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) I like your idea Sharpl1ine, it sounds very fair. And I agree with your comments about APAT. It is early days and mistakes are going to happen, as long as they are seen to be correcting them (and I believe they are) I'm definitely going to give them a chance as they could possibly turn out to be just what we've been waiting for.

[PokerBarney]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) "Pot Kettle and Black come to mind." Why? I don't like the APAT because of stuff like this - the definition of an amateur player as stated on their front page: "For the avoidance of doubt, Membership of the Amateur Poker Association & Tour is NOT available to any individual who earns his or her SOLE income by playing poker" This basically means that anyone can play, since very few pros earn their sole income from actually playing poker. Secondly - what's the membership fees all about? That's what tourney fees are for, right? The "benefits" listed for members include... "Members will benefit from improvements in organisation, public image and the value of sponsorship brought to the game by the APAT." - They're going to improve my image? How can my fees improve the value of sponsorship? If we don't pay the fees, the tournaments will be badly organised? Come on.. "Members can participate in an exclusive and high profile series of live and online APAT tournaments, with a considerable added value prize pool, and guaranteed media coverage" - But I can do this all over the place, in various tourneys without having to pay membership to some club. "Successful Members will receive expenses paid entries to European Poker Tour, World Poker Tour and World Series Of Poker main events, which will offer a tremendous learning experience" - Nothing to do with membership fees, these are prizes that you win. "Members can keep up to date with Association news and detailed Tour reports in each new issue of PokerPlayer magazine, with a subscription offer of 13 issues for £5" - Again, this isn't a benefit of my membership.. if they were free, then it would be. The only REAL benefit I can see, is being on the board and having a say on the running of the APAT. But since only 3 people will be elected to do so, there's very little chance of an unknown player having this position. Until someone can provide me with concrete benefits or reasons for having to pay membership, I see it as a money grabbing manouver, without foundation. They're trying to cover their costs from our pockets, and I don't like it. Thirdly - are they a union body, or a tour operator? The website suggests that their main functionality is running tournaments (which is great, it's always nice to have more live games in the UK), but at the same time they bandy around stuff about trying to get into the Olympics. It's great in theory, but it would be nice to see some concrete evidence of where membership fees are going, and what they're actually achieving politically (with all the lobbying they're talking about). I'm just not convinced, that's all, but then I have always been very skeptical. I will keep my big mouth shut, but my eyes and ears wide open.

[mcgin]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) I'm looking forward to all the APAT stuff. Good work guys. Oh, and I think a freeroll to choose who should enter the tourney or not is the best way to go too. First come first served is just a bit gash :) You could even have multiple freerolls, 1 for general public where most of the seats go (90-95%) and then some for partners/selected sites for entry maybe even one for Punterslounge ;)

[Jaded]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

Hi Jaded, We have achieved a great deal under the surface, like the agreements with PokerStars for added value, with PokerPlayer for media exposure, and with the GC on standardised rules. And there are some very significant deals in the pipeline also. It is really challenging to gain the confidence and trust of the players, and rightly so. We will only ever get that by listening and acting for you. However, we are breaking new ground here, so realistically mistakes will occur in the early days. I can assure you that we will not be slow to learn from them. Regards, Des.

Des, good to see you here - always great to have new members, and it's definitely heartening when people like yourself and APAT take the time to post and explain things more clearly. :ok Jarjar, I take your point about letting the APAT get up and running properly before criticising them too much, but I do think that it's valuable to alert them to any confusion that IS occurring, simply because it allows Des/APAT to clear things up quickly and stop such confusion from spreading. Having said that, if a couple of my earlier posts seemed slightly negative, I apologize for any offense caused to anyone involved in APAT. The one thing I am slightly concerned about, as Barney mentions above, is that unless I've missed it there doesn't seem to have been a response to my question (after the clarification) about pros who make money from websites/books/sponsorship as well as playing. My earlier example was intentionally far-fetched - I'm not really expecting to sit next to Doyle Brunson if I play one of the live games, however much I'd like to be called a muppet by Texas Dolly! - but it would be appreciated if you could specify whether they are allowed to play, as they could claim their income wasn't SOLELY from playing poker. Thanks again for taking the time to post here, guys.

[DesD]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

Des, good to see you here - always great to have new members, and it's definitely heartening when people like yourself and APAT take the time to post and explain things more clearly. :ok Jarjar, I take your point about letting the APAT get up and running properly before criticising them too much, but I do think that it's valuable to alert them to any confusion that IS occurring, simply because it allows Des/APAT to clear things up quickly and stop such confusion from spreading. Having said that, if a couple of my earlier posts seemed slightly negative, I apologize for any offense caused to anyone involved in APAT. The one thing I am slightly concerned about, as Barney mentions above, is that unless I've missed it there doesn't seem to have been a response to my question (after the clarification) about pros who make money from websites/books/sponsorship as well as playing. My earlier example was intentionally far-fetched - I'm not really expecting to sit next to Doyle Brunson if I play one of the live games, however much I'd like to be called a muppet by Texas Dolly! - but it would be appreciated if you could specify whether they are allowed to play, as they could claim their income wasn't SOLELY from playing poker. Thanks again for taking the time to post here, guys.

Thanks for the welcome Jaded. The professional 'names' like Simon Trumper, Gary Jones etc, would not be allowed to play, because these guys are professionals first and foremost and the additional work they gain is often directly as a result of being a poker professional. We do not envisage this being a problem, as these guys are clearly professionals and would not pretend to be anything other. The problem area potentially is the player who plays festivals but supplements his income with additional interests on the side. In reality, if they are not earning a living from poker then a player is entitled to play in the APAT. Similarly for the guy sitting at home making $100k a year online. He clearly should be labelled a professional but it will be difficult for the APAT to police him, and in this grey area, players will need to use their own judgement and honesty as to whether they are professional or not. If we find a professional has taken part in an APAT event, then we can and will disqualify that player and redistribute any prize money won amongst the reformatted finishers. In addition, due to a great deal of interest that we have had from professionals, we are investigating the possibility of running two APAT Pro-Am events in Season One. These events would offer the same sort of format as an APAT event, with sponsor funded added value, but with a slightly larger entry fee. Amateurs would get the opportunity to play those events with the professionals, but to reiterate the professionals would not be allowed into the APAT events. The details are still being looked at but it is likely that we would run online satelites to those events. It will be difficult to prove that APAT events are 100% amateur, but they will be a great deal closer to that ideal than the field would be had we omitted the word amateur in the first place. Regards, Des.

[Sharpe1ne]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) "Successful Members will receive expenses paid entries to European Poker Tour, World Poker Tour and World Series Of Poker main events, which will offer a tremendous learning experience" - Nothing to do with membership fees, these are prizes that you win. Nope this one ain't right. Des has already said that any prize money paid on the day will be paid out in prize money when the tournament finishes.I.E if 100 people enter the prize money given out will be 7500 the Seat prizes are seperate and i suppose would be funded by media coverage and part of a membership fee. "Members will benefit from improvements in organisation, public image and the value of sponsorship brought to the game by the APAT." - They're going to improve my image? How can my fees improve the value of sponsorship? If we don't pay the fees, the tournaments will be badly organised? Come on.. Again what if you win one of the tournys and with the media coverage available a poker site might sign you up to play in tournaments for them.I.e Chris Moneymaker ,Ferguson and many more unknowns that are now household names earning sponsorship. Though if you do get your sponsorship you won't be able to play in the tournys anymore:lol I can see your concerns Barney and you have a right to your own opinions. it's just that their trying to get something off the ground and i believe that as time goes on all questions and answers will be fully accomodated. As to any supposed pro's that are playing if you don't aspire to go head to head with them then what are your ambitions in poker? Pro's ha i sh*t em:lol

[jarjaruk]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Jaded, I defiitely wasn't having a go at you, I too want to get things straightened out, so we all know what's happening and who can play, etc. I agree that all the info has been a little hazy lately and I'm really pleased its beginning to get resolved. I was just getting a little concerned at the fact that some people (definitely not you) seem unwilling even to give them a chance, and to give their point of view in a constructive way. Any advise we APAT give is going to be listened to a whole lot more if its done constructively, rather than in a tirade. Des, I also agree with Jaded when he thanked you fortaking the time to come onto the forum to speak about the concerns that some members have and to give assurances, it really is appreciated, by most people.

[Jaded]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

. The problem area potentially is the player who plays festivals but supplements his income with additional interests on the side. In reality, if they are not earning a living from poker then a player is entitled to play in the APAT. Similarly for the guy sitting at home making $100k a year online. He clearly should be labelled a professional but it will be difficult for the APAT to police him, and in this grey area, players will need to use their own judgement and honesty as to whether they are professional or not. If we find a professional has taken part in an APAT event, then we can and will disqualify that player and redistribute any prize money won amongst the reformatted finishers.

:clap Big thanks for the clarification Des, I appreciate that there are obviously grey areas like the ones described above where it must be extremely hard for you to decide, but it's a great help to know where you stand on them. Sharpey - I take your point about wanting to play top players, and I'm really looking forward to the pro-am for just that reason - I just want to make sure I KNOW whether I'm going to be out of my league or not!! (Apart from anything else, with my style, if there was any chance Phil Hellmuth was going to be there I think I'd start saving up for body armour... :rollin ) Jarjar - No worries mate, no offense taken!

[Sharpe1ne]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Apart from anything else, with my style, if there was any chance Phil Hellmuth was going to be there I think I'd start saving up for body armour... :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[morlspin]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

Oh and I do think my idea is best Have an online password protected freeroll tourny for all apat members on pokerstars and when the field hits 120 invite these players to play at the card club.

What about those of us who work days or nights, if we dont register asap we cant play? Not one of your best ideas!

[Sharpe1ne]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

What about those of us who work days or nights, if we dont register asap we cant play? Not one of your best ideas!

well hang fire what happens if it's a click fest on a first come and first serve basis and your working days or nights? I'm sure that if a date was set for a freeroll tourney then you would be able to swop shifts.Have you not swopped shifts ever for a poker tourny?

[morlspin]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

well hang fire what happens if it's a click fest on a first come and first serve basis and your working days or nights? I'm sure that if a date was set for a freeroll tourney then you would be able to swop shifts.Have you not swopped shifts ever for a poker tourny?

What happens if you cant? Sod ya? tough luck? Id sooner take my chances in a random draw than a fastest finger 1st competition

[Sharpe1ne]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

What happens if you cant? Sod ya? tough luck? Id sooner take my chances in a random draw than a fastest finger 1st competition

When i mentioned a freeroll it would be for all apat members not a fastest finger first .