APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

[BAM]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

1. I believe we will only hold a random draw for the first event...henceforth it will revert to first come first served with immediate payment via our online payment mechanism...the first event, because people joined APAT before the event was ready for registration, is seen as a special case due to this 2. Draw will take place by an electronic sort (I am told, I do not know the specifics but can find out) overseen by an independent scrutineer 3. All events after Event 1 will be available to purchase a seat for approximately one month before the comp. For the first event, the draw will take place in the first week of September. We anticipate all successful applicants will be emailed and have 5 days to pay before the position lapses and the place goes to a highest person on a reserve list (also randomly drawn) 4. No there aren't any plans to change the points scoring in the Online event

If you dont mind me saying it all sounds very sketchy I also remember a post in this thread that was very quickly edited that "predicted" this would happen. I for one will be emailing you for a full refund and withdrawing my membership

[APAT]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) No its not sketchy, its because it's the MD's responsibility and I need his say so that these matters have been finalised

[teaulc]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

Amateur Poker Association & Tour English Amateur Poker Championship Entry Process

Dear Member, Exceptional circumstances have brought about the requirement for a member draw to allocate tournament seats for the English Amateur Poker Championship, which will be held at the Broadway Casino, Birmingham on September 23 & 24. This process will NOT be repeated for future APAT events, where seats will be allocated on a strictly first come, first served basis, well in advance of the tournament. It is worth noting, that there is not a cardroom in the UK that would have been able to cater for the demand that we have seen from you for this tournament. Inevitably, some of you will be left disappointed with the outcome of this draw, and for that we apologise. Please remember, APAT has a highly competitive Online Series running on PokerStars.com, with the Italian Open taking place next Saturday evening (September 2), and we will feature our next APAT live event on the weekend of November 18 & 19. We will investigate the possibility of offering a limited number of live satellite qualifying opportunities to this tournament, and advise in the coming weeks. APAT Live - Member Draw Process August 30, midnight: The APAT website will stop recording interest in the English Amateur Poker Championship.

September 3, midnight: A finalised list of members will be downloaded in preparation for a members only draw for tournament seats.

September 4, midday: A draw for tournament seats will be made. The draw will be overseen by an independent scrutineer. The first 200 members drawn will receive a number between 1 and 200. These members will form the ‘Seat Allocated’ list and the ‘Reserve’ list.

September 4, from 8.00pm: Confirmation will be sent to members on the ‘Seat Allocated’ list. Members will be able to pay their £75 tournament entry fee via a payment link within the email. Please note ALL entry monies will be paid in prize money, in addition to the European Poker Tour seat which will be awarded to the event winner. The "Seat Allocated" list and "Reserve List" will be posted within the Tour section at www.apat.com. If your name appears there, and you do not receive an email from us, then please email [email protected] with your details, after checking your spam filters etc.

September 8, midnight: Members who have not completed the payment process for entry at this time will lose their allocated seat.

September 9: Unallocated seats will be offered to members in ascending numerical order of their position on the ‘Reserve’ list.

APAT’s decision in this process will be final. No individual ‘case’ merits will be looked at, as to do so would further delay the process. The APAT website will be updated to reflect the above from August 30 when the process starts. Good luck to everyone who is hoping for a seat. Kind regards, Des Duffy Managing Director Amateur Poker Limited NL32

[Sharpe1ne]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Forgive me if I am talkin arse. Is the first event live at a card club? If so why not have an online freeroll tournament for all APAT members(password protected) and when the freeroll comes down to 120 players stop the game and invite those players to play live at the card club. If not live then i am talking arse.

[APAT]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) OK here are clarifications issued by the APAT chairman over the last day on the forum he runs First, Seat Allocation for Event # 1. The full details of this can be found in a Newsletter we have today sent to all our Members. I will C & P an extract from that Newsletter at the foot of this Post, but in brief.... If Event # 1 attracts more players than we have seats for, a Draw will be held. It will be overseen by an independent scrutineer. Only those who have registered an interest will go into the draw. A "reserve" list will be included, to allow "replacements"for anyone who draws a seat but cannot attend, for whatever reason. Once the draw is made, Members will have a timescale within which Payment must be made. Seats not taken up will be replaced by "reserves". All this assumes, of course, that the Event sells out. We wll NOT repeat this process for future Tour Events. From Event # 2, seats wll be sold on a first-come, first-served basis. There were technical reasons why we could not implement this for Event # 1, but that's history now & we can't turn the clock back. It bears repeating, because the issue keeps being raised. There will NOT be a Registration Fee. ALL the Prize Money will be paid out. If we get, say, 100 runners, the Prize Fund wil be £7,500. £7,500 will be paid out. The winner will be awarded a seat at a 2006/2007 Season EPT Event, together with expenses, irrespective of how many runners we attract. OK, here, below, is the extract from our Newsletter to Members, outlining the Draw & Payment Process & timetable. "......Dear Member, Exceptional circumstances have brought about the requirement for a member draw to allocate tournament seats for the English Amateur Poker Championship, which will be held at the Broadway Casino, Birmingham on September 23 & 24. This process will NOT be repeated for future APAT events, where seats will be allocated on a strictly first come, first served basis, well in advance of the tournament. It is worth noting, that there is not a cardroom in the UK that would have been able to cater for the demand that we have seen from you for this tournament. Inevitably, some of you will be left disappointed with the outcome of this draw, and for that we apologise. Please remember, APAT has a highly competitive Online Series running on PokerStars.com, with the Italian Open taking place next Saturday evening (September 2), and we will feature our next APAT live event on the weekend of November 18 & 19. We will investigate the possibility of offering a limited number of live satellite qualifying opportunities to this tournament, and advise in the coming weeks. APAT Live - Member Draw Process August 30, midnight: The APAT website will stop recording interest in the English Amateur Poker Championship. September 3, midnight: A finalised list of members will be downloaded in preparation for a members only draw for tournament seats. September 4, midday: A draw for tournament seats will be made. The draw will be overseen by an independent scrutineer. The first 200 members drawn will receive a number between 1 and 200. These members will form the ‘Seat Allocated’ list and the ‘Reserve’ list. September 4, from 8.00pm: Confirmation will be sent to members on the ‘Seat Allocated’ list. Members will be able to pay their £75 tournament entry fee via a payment link within the email. Please note ALL entry monies will be paid in prize money, in addition to the European Poker Tour seat which will be awarded to the event winner. The "Seat Allocated" list and "Reserve List" will be posted within the Tour section at www.apat.com. If your name appears there, and you do not receive an email from us, then please email [email protected] with your details, after checking your spam filters etc. September 8, midnight: Members who have not completed the payment process for entry at this time will lose their allocated seat. September 9: Unallocated seats will be offered to members in ascending numerical order of their position on the ‘Reserve’ list. APAT’s decision in this process will be final. No individual ‘case’ merits will be looked at, as to do so would further delay the process. The APAT website will be updated to reflect the above from August 30 when the process starts. Good luck to everyone who is hoping for a seat. Kind regards, Des Duffy Managing Director Amateur Poker Limited....." If you have any questions on the Seat Allocation Process, feel free to write to me at "[email protected]",

[APAT]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Secondly Who is eligible to partake in the APAT Tour Events? It was originally designed to be for "Recreational Players" only. Feedback from Members is overwhelmingly in favour of keeping it that way. So thats it, it's for Recreational Players ONLY. By "Recreational Payers" we mean exactly that. Players who do not earn their sole income from Poker. How do we draw up Rules to police this? We don't. I've always taken the view that if you have Rules, someone will try & get round them. This view is not universally held, but we had the debate, & that was the decision - I'm glad to say. What do we do if somone enters an APAT Event, who, in our opinion, does not qualify as a "Recreational Player"? We will refuse their entry. And if someone "slips through the net"? Well they might, they just might, but if they do, it'll only be the once. We have to invest some responsibility in our Membership to self-govern this matter. This issue is "hot", because many full time poker players recognize the value we are offering, & want a slice of the action. We know this from the disappointment voiced by so many, which tells it's own story. But we will stick to our guns on this, & will not fail our Membership, intended or existing. To those that are disappointed by this, I'm sorry. But it was always intended to be for Recreational Players only, so that's what the APAT Tour Events will be. As it happens, we will run our Tournaments differently to the way normal "open to all" Events are run, so it may not suit them anyway. We have our own Standarised Rules, we won't be altering structures or clocks during the event, they will start and finish at a reasonable time of day, & we will rigidly ensure decent standards of behaviour between players. Where we see fit, Penalties, including time way from the table, or even disqualification, will be imposed. These Events are going to be "comfortable" for Recreational players to play in, & our Members will be treated like customers, & given the respect they deserve. If anyone has already become an APAT Member & now realizes they are not eligible to play, we will refund their Membership. We - I really - acknowledge it's taken some time to clarify this - the amount of feedback, some of it extraodinarily aggressive, did, I confess, shock us. But it's not intended for anyone except Recreational Players. So if you joined up whilst we/I were procrastinating on how to define eligibility, & you think we have taken your money under false pretences, a refund is available. Conversely, the Recreational players who joined up thinking it was designed solely for them will, I hope, be re-assured that we have stuck to our guns.

[APAT]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Thirdly (and this was the point of allowing some pros to be a part of APAT...) So you are not a Recreational Player, but you'd like to play the sort of event we are running? Well, it's amazed us how many non-recreational players covet playing Events of the nature we have proposed. For all the noise, we must have got something right! So - & this is NOT confirmed, but is do-able - we have looked in depth at running a parallel "Pro-Am" Series. Learning from our early experiences, we are sounding out opinions on the viabaility of this. If this satisfies the non-eligible players, perhaps we can do it. They clearly like our package - the way we structure them, & the Added Value - which tells it's own story. (Side, but relevant issue here - I just played a wonderfully structured Event at Gutshot - great structure, reasonably priced, & it pretty much sold out. The demand exists for these comps, but it's hard to find them at reasonable cost, even harder with genuine Added Value). So yes, it's do-able, & we've invested much effort over the last 2 weeks to see if we can put it together. Here's where we are. We have found a Sponsor - Added Value is a given in ANY Live Event we run - so that's taken care of. We think we can put on two Pro-Ams in Season One, both after Christmas, when we can source Venues with greater capacity. And we think we can schedule a proper Pro-Am Series in Season Two. Everything would be the same - good structure & clocks, standard Rules, run punctually & efficiently, players treated with respect & civility, & with genuine Added Value. A rare commodity, it seems. So we just have to decide whether to push the "GO" button. But before we do, & learning from our earlier experiences, what do YOU think?

[APAT]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Apologies for the length of those posts I repeat they are from Tony Kendall, APAT chairman As he says, we remain ears open for feedback, but I hope that has offered some clarification Thanks

[Jaded]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

Secondly Who is eligible to partake in the APAT Tour Events? So that's it, it's for Recreational Players ONLY. By "Recreational Payers" we mean exactly that. Players who do not earn their sole income from Poker.

Can you confirm or deny that this WILL make people like Harrington/Cloutier/Brunson (not saying they want to play, just giving examples!) eligible as they have steady income through sales of their books? Or would they be uneligible as this counts as poker income?

[Valiant23]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) I understand the point behind Jaded's post, as all 'professionals' in sport (if I can include poker in this) may have made their name in their particular field, but may not necessarily derive their main income from that field directly. Tiger Woods, Michael Schumacher, Roger Federer, could all concievably claim to be 'recreational sportsmen', as could Dave Ulliot. As I daresay a lot of their income comes from interests outside of sport. I think the concern is that although we enjoy taking on the pro's in the right circumstances (Tony Kendall's tourney on S.O. proves this), we would be slightly unnerved at turning up at an APAT event to be sat at the same table as say Lucy Rokach(sp) or Dave Colclough. However I've been reassured by this statement, and being honest I think the reason I'm not 100% convinced yet is maybe due to the recent Goalpoker debacle. In fact I would hope that one day APAT would have enough muscle to protect players such as Joe and fenners from this kind of thing happening. Anyway, thanks for the info APAT. :ok

We think we can put on two Pro-Ams in Season One, both after Christmas, when we can source Venues with greater capacity.

How big would you need the cardroom to be?

[msaban]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Thanks for clarifying a number of points there APAT. I think thats cleared abit of confusion over who's eligable to play in the live events, personally I dont mind and infact would be quite pleased to be on the same table as some pro's however when the seating is limited, I think its unfair that they would probably be allocated seats before other non pro members - however youve said this is not the case. To continue on from Valients post about card room size, you (APAT) have already a tournament/ location schedule, so I assume you will have to look outside of casino's to host these events, as many casinos in these areas wont have the cardrom capacity to meet expeted demand ?

[jeffster]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) The posts from APAT / Tony Kendall definitely reassure me and clear things up in my mind... My only criticism is that details about the Pro-Am should have been released at the very same time as the following paragraph in the earlier newsletter : "We have had demand from a number of players who play full time, and would like to join the APAT. While it was not our stated intention to allow professionals to join the APAT, we believe there is a solution which would allow the Association to represent players of all levels, while protecting the amateur ethos of our Tour. Tony Kendall will confirm our position on this item as part of the above announcement." Going on from the above to mention the Pro-AM series would have stopped a lot of uneccessary confusion... Now, I for one am looking forward to next's weeks Italian Open...

[APAT]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Thanks Yes your point about unneccessary confusion is valid. Live and learn....

[PokerBarney]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) "September 4, from 8.00pm: Confirmation will be sent to members on the ‘Seat Allocated’ list. Members will be able to pay their £75 tournament entry fee via a payment link within the email." Anyone else smell a phising scam in the works? Clickable links in emails are asking for trouble. Put it somewhere on the site so users can be sure that they're paying the right person.

[GaF]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

Anyone else smell a phising scam in the works?

Very good point - I'm sure APAT will deal with it when he reads this :ok

[APAT]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) A scam? APAT are currently featured on the home page of the world's largest tournament poker site PokerStars.com,are on the cover of this month's PokerPlayer magazine,are the lead poker story in today's edition of the Sunonline, have been featured in two TV programmes in the last couple of week's and you think we are trying to scam 120 players out of £75, because we are offering you the convenience of email payment! You clearly have not done as much homework on the APAT as the parties mentioned above. We would appreciate if you would withdraw what is a reckless comment and completely without foundation.

[morlspin]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

A scam? APAT are currently featured on the home page of the world's largest tournament poker site PokerStars.com,are on the cover of this month's PokerPlayer magazine,are the lead poker story in today's edition of the Sunonline, have been featured in two TV programmes in the last couple of week's and you think we are trying to scam 120 players out of £75, because we are offering you the convenience of email payment! You clearly have not done as much homework on the APAT as the parties mentioned above. We would appreciate if you would withdraw what is a reckless comment and completely without foundation.

I beleive the comment was that other people could create scams through email payments This is very common on EBAY, PAYPAL and many other sites that use links in emails. People receive emails beleiving they are from the correct company, sign in and pay fees etc, their details are recorded using the link they clicked I dont think it was a reference to APAT, just a general warning that others can and do, do this type of thing

[GaF]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) APAT - I think you have misunderstood the original point - it is not saying that APAT is a scam!!! It is saying that requesting payment from a link in an email is inherently dangerous on the internet, and the foundation of "phishing" scams - it is clear through this thread who is an APAT member and an enterprising scammer could probably quite easily put together a convincing email requesting payment - with email there is no way to really know who it is really from. The criticism was not of APAT directly, but you maybe need to reconsider the security of requesting payment by links only available through email......

[GaF]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Jeeez - do I really type THAT much slower than morl? :$

[morlspin]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

Jeeez - do I really type THAT much slower than morl? :$

Yep mate, yep you do!

[Burnley Joe]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) APAT, i don`t think they were slaggin you off, i just think that they were saying that there are a lot of ways of scamming people. i have a shop on ebay and am always getting payment stuff through. I`ll show an example when i get the next one. This is a ligit paypal email sent to me because i complained:

In This Issue Protect yourself from fraudulent emails Pay Family & Friends – through your mobile Great deals on Shopping with PayPal Special Offer – new PayPal Credit Card Purchases protected up to £500* Next time you shop on eBay.co.uk, look for this symbol in listings . It may help protect you in the unlikely event of your item not arriving or being different from the description. *Conditions apply. Learn more about protection at no additional cost.		Protect Yourself from Fraudulent Emails Dear Joe Geraghty, Emails and websites that appear to be from a well-known company can put you at risk. This type of fraud is commonly referred to as 'spoof' or 'phishing'. It pays to know how to prevent yourself from being affected. Learn how to recognise fake emails. Pay Friends and Family through your Mobile Impress your loved ones. Text them money any time, anywhere. Tip: it comes in handy for missed birthdays. To get started, activate your phone now. Shop Safely With PayPal So, you like shopping online but don't want to share your financial details with an unknown seller? Try Shopping With PayPal - a new website with thousands of items where you can pay instantly and safely with PayPal every time. Shop now. Special Offers for PayPal Customers New! Credit Card with 0% p.a. on Balance Transfers and Purchases for 6 months* If you like PayPal, you'll love our new credit card. Use it worldwide wherever you see the MasterCard brandmark – online, offline, anytime. Typical 12.9% APR variable. Free Identity Fraud Assistance and Internet Fraud Guarantee included. *Learn more. I personally think what you have done is great and i think everyone on here probably feels the same, its just that we all have to be careful Jesus, i sound like mi dad Keep up the good work :ok

[Tax_Monkey]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

A scam? APAT are currently featured on the home page of the world's largest tournament poker site PokerStars.com,are on the cover of this month's PokerPlayer magazine,are the lead poker story in today's edition of the Sunonline, have been featured in two TV programmes in the last couple of week's and you think we are trying to scam 120 players out of £75, because we are offering you the convenience of email payment! You clearly have not done as much homework on the APAT as the parties mentioned above. We would appreciate if you would withdraw what is a reckless comment and completely without foundation.

You really should read posts properly before you make such inflamatory comments. It is quite clear that PokerBarney is alluding to the obvious and exploitable gaps (dare I say gafs!) in the "click on this link to make payment". This is a system that phishers have repeatedly and sucessfully expoited on numerous well publicised instances. At no point was it, or has it been intoned that APAT is a scam. A public apololgy is very definately in order. You have embarrased yourself and your organisation. Shame on you!!

[morlspin]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Damn Joe, i was just about to post that too!

[Burnley Joe]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Sorry mate, got carried away. I get loads of emails saying i have just paid for bollox which i know i have n`t cos i`m as tight as a nats chuff, but as soon as you conect through the link your goosed I will post one tmrw as get them most days

[GaF]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

A public apololgy is very definately in order. You have embarrased yourself and your organisation. Shame on you!!

I think it can be excused/understood given some of the very aggressive criticisms on here before of APAT before all the facts were known!! How about we try and make peace guys? If APAT doesn't interest you, noone is being forced to join, but quite a few of us have chosen to join and it should be because we will all benefit through membership and enjoy the tournaments and value it is proposing to run .........

[Burnley Joe]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) By the way whist talking about ebay, i got some lovely Ralph Lauren Big Pony T Shirt in all sizes and colours, all original for a ten spot each and some Von Dutch hats and Aber and finch Just PM and i`ll ship em LOL

[morlspin]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) joe whats ur site called on ebay?

[Tax_Monkey]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...)

I think it can be excused/understood given some of the very aggressive criticisms on here before of APAT before all the facts were known!! How about we try and make peace guys? If APAT doesn't interest you, noone is being forced to join, but quite a few of us have chosen to join and it should be because we will all benefit through membership and enjoy the tournaments and value it is proposing to run .........

GaF? I strongly disagree it is quite clear from PB's post exactly what he means. For someone who is supposedly representing APAT being able to read basic English without jumping to unecessary and innaccurate conclusions is a must. Prior to that post I had no strong feeling either way for APAT. Unless there is a formal apology to PB posted on this forum I for one will never join. EDIT: Sorry so angry I forgot to mention, peace can easily be restored by an apology for the unfounded and inaccurate allegations made against PB

[Burnley Joe]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) X Box N Pieces, nowt on there at mo cos of the holiday

[APAT]

Re: APAT goes Pro ? Plus revised registration process for Birmingham Tourney...) Of course I apologise for my misunderstanding of what the poster was getting at. Clearly I need a good nights sleep to help me avoid these misjudgements !