rippyuk Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 A hand taken from the late stages of the tourney I played tonight (http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33026). My question is would you have shoved, or mucked? Ok, the situation: 10 runners (from 66) left in, top 9 positions pay. Two tables in play, with 5 players on each table. The blinds are at 1000/2000, average stack is around 30k, and I have around 15k, putting me in the shortest two or three stacks, with the lowest on around 9k. My table had three large stacks (40-60k), and one short on similar chips to me. I'm the BB, action folds to large stack in SB position, who raises to 5600. My hole cards are KcQh, not the strongest holding, but short handed it's a biggie, so I think, then call. Flop comes 7 K 3 all diamonds. Small blind fires 8k, effectively forcing me to push all in, or fold. Now I'm thinking, top pair strong kicker, nice - if it wasn't for all those damn diamonds. I had to give my opponent credit for at least a diamond draw, due to his bet. I thought it over for ages & ages, and eventually folded. I sacrificed a big pot & top pair for tournament survival. The other player showed a Jack of diamonds for no pair but flush draw. I was then almost laughed at by the rest of the table (except the guy in the hand), who couldn't understand folding top pair at such a stage in the tourney. My reasoning was I may have him had beat(on flop), but there are two cards to come, and 9 more diamonds in the deck - I've busted out online many a time to a flush landing on the turn or river. I can see the justification for shoving.. I'd already committed a third of my stack and hit one of the cards I was hoping to hit, to fold was almost like giving up on a chance of winning - but ultimately folding meant I was still alive, and able to finish in the money. Did I make the wrong play? Would you have done the same? Would you have shoved? Given the same situation again I don't know what I'd have done, but I'm interested to see how you all would've played it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Re: A hand from the late stages of £50 single chance tourney Difficult to be sure, I'd have pushed I think But you made the money, and that's important too. You can be too safe at the bubble, but it's better not to be reckless. Depends what's more important, a chance at victory, or certainity of money. £50 isn't a cheap tourney, what did 9th place pay ?? where did you finish ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rippyuk Posted August 16, 2006 Author Share Posted August 16, 2006 Re: A hand from the late stages of £50 single chance tourney 9th paid £180.. 1st was just under £1900 I came 8th for £240. Maybe the fact that the buyin was so high affected my judgement - I was so determined to end the night in profit that I laid down the best hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Re: A hand from the late stages of £50 single chance tourney you walked away with a £190 profit, that's real money and I salulte you. People will come on and tell you the push was the right option, and talk about +ev and the like. I don't know your personal finance circumstances, but if you took the £190 and did something nice with it, then it was a good fold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rippyuk Posted August 16, 2006 Author Share Posted August 16, 2006 Re: A hand from the late stages of £50 single chance tourney you walked away with a £190 profit, that's real money and I salulte you. People will come on and tell you the push was the right option, and talk about +ev and the like. I don't know your personal finance circumstances, but if you took the £190 and did something nice with it, then it was a good fold Well £140 after the addon, but yeah, I'm not minted by any stretch, £140 is a hefty amount of money to me. I guess if I played the same £50 tournament week in week out, the shove was definately right, as the number of times I lost the hand would be far outweighed by the number of times I won it, doubled through and cashed higher.. but this was an isolated situation with it's own swaying factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jones12345 Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Re: A hand from the late stages of £50 single chance tourney its screaming to me fold 3 diamonds hit u aint got 1 even though u got top pair. I think it was a good fold knowing online poker as it is river would of been a diamond and u would of lost.Then u would of been saying why did'nt i fold lol but u did so good call and nice profit 2 . ps keep up the good work n1 :notworthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Re: A hand from the late stages of £50 single chance tourney I think I'd have shoved, personally, but I also think you make a good point about not playing the tourney regularly - for a one-off, I can definitely see that you'd rather go for a decent profit rather than trying to double up and risk bubbling if he catches his flush. 9 more diamonds to come gives him about a 1 in 3 chance of knocking you out, I think - def good enough reason to be worried about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgej Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Re: A hand from the late stages of £50 single chance tourney For that buyin, i'd be playing very carefully too, but think you made a mistake. If you call with KQ for 5600 preflop, you are basically committed. If you hit anything i would say you need to go for it. In my VERY unprofessional opinion, you should either have gone allin, or folded preflop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3vil3yes Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Re: A hand from the late stages of £50 single chance tourney I'd suggest it would also depend on the nature of the SB's play. If he was just trying to steal the blind, the bet on the flop could have been a continuation. Did he have enough chips to overplay a small pocket pair? The decision should have taken a view of their betting scheme to that point. Nevertheless, great job on the cash, a payout is a strong antedote to regretting cautious play. Just look at the readies and you'll soon forget the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweetypie05 Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Re: A hand from the late stages of £50 single chance tourney I agree with your lay down on the basis that you don't have a diamond, it's a new tournament and you are unsure of the level of play and you're on the bubble. He could be bluffing but no payout versus £100+ profit says fold to me... if it had been 2 diamonds only I would have shoved... Nice profit! :clap :clap :clap :clap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rippyuk Posted August 16, 2006 Author Share Posted August 16, 2006 Re: A hand from the late stages of £50 single chance tourney For that buyin, i'd be playing very carefully too, but think you made a mistake. If you call with KQ for 5600 preflop, you are basically committed. If you hit anything i would say you need to go for it. In my VERY unprofessional opinion, you should either have gone allin, or folded preflop I was playing carefully, but also used my moments to take the blinds, take down pots with bluffs, etc.. I was playing a good all round game, which is why this hand has got under my skin I guess. I called for 5600, but I still had double this remaining if I folded - so I don't necessarily agree that I am committed - in my eyes you're not committed until you've got almost all your chips in the middle. That said, I think if we rewound now I would've shoved - but hindsight is 20/20, and I did what I felt was right in the situation, having played for a good number of hours with these people. Definately appreciate everyones input, keep it coming.. how else do we become more rounded players if it's not by constructively criticising one anothers play! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Lady Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Re: A hand from the late stages of £50 single chance tourney I was in a similar situation last night and folded so that I made the money - as that was my aim - i played with the intention of making a profit on the buy in. Having top pair it would have been tough to put down- but I still would have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rippyuk Posted August 16, 2006 Author Share Posted August 16, 2006 Re: A hand from the late stages of £50 single chance tourney I guess the next question is.. if you could see the other players cards face up, and see he indeed had a draw to the flush and no pair, would you have made the same laydown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocket Lady Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Re: A hand from the late stages of £50 single chance tourney Yes I would have :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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