Think I played this badly.

[PokerBarney]

Level III (50/100) of a $10 MTT, I've played 2 hands to this point. First was a 4xBB raise UTG with QQ which collected the blinds, second was a four card straight checked around on the BB. So.. my stack is ~1600 (started at 1500), and I've been getting trash. I look down in MP to see KJd. I limp (since that's what most have been doing, and I'm looking to hit a big flop cheaply). Folded round to the blinds, who complete and check. Flop comes Ac 9s 4s. Blinds check, I bet the pot (300). BB calls... drawing? Turn 6d. We both check (a bet here? pot? shove?) River Jc. BB bets 600 into a pot of 900 and I call. Was it just horrible from beginning to end? I'm beginning to think it was... bleurgh. Everyone at the table had been fairly passive loose up to this point, so his call on the flop could well be a drawing hand.

[Masterplan]

Re: Think I played this badly. you kinda made it obvious you didnt have the ace, i assume he turned ace rag over and you lost. without a raise preflop he's unlikely to let go of it once its hit imo.

[stevie-p]

Re: Think I played this badly. at a loose table id of limped with k/js also ...no point in raising yet with king high ...you will only get several callers and u dont have the chips to make that play... with that flop and the blinds only to play id also of bet at the pot representing the ace...i find with the low stake game a bet of 100 will do ..maybe 200...300 isnt necessary. a slight adjustmement with your bet. remember you dont have the ace ur only representing it so you dont want to chuck 1/4 of ur stack at it...try adjusting the chip amounts here ...i like to play something like 175 here. once called you can fire again or check..personally id check too...he has something that he is unwilling to fold ...no reason to beleive he will fold to a push and also remember you dont have the ace ;) river is a crap card...but he seems not to be scared of it and has bet 600... this is a key point in your multi...and not a lot of time to think it through but you must start to do it..... you represented the ace on the flop and it was called ...ur instinct was a draw.....the "draw" wasnt completed so his bet is an outright bluff or he has an ace or a hand that beats jacks. the bet is very enticing for you ...why? maybe he has made it so ...he is out of position and if you raise him all in he is calling so why bluff? if you call here you may as well be out of the mtt...your stack is crippled. for me ...i made a play at the 300 pot and got called on the ace high flop. what has happened from flop to river would lead me to belive i was beaten and with my stack id fold...remember i only invested 275 in it not 400 and can get away with 1325 stack ...not great but playable. its an intersting hand and a good post. i like it:) everyone would play it different and for me you played it well...the river was a killer card but in future remeber to take your time to figure things out when faced with these decisions. i have a lot i could say about this hand but am useless at typing and explaining. i hope you get a lot of replies to this to see what other views are gl :)

[PokerBarney]

Re: Think I played this badly. Raising pre-flop would've made this a lot easier I think. A raise to 260-280, then a half pot bet on the flop would've taken in IMO. Why was it obvious I didn't have the ace though? A pot sized bet means something doesn't it? Thanks stevie. You're right, betting the pot was probably not necessary. If he was going to fold, he would've folded to a smaller bet. Bit of a leak there :) The river is a tricky one. It didn't make any draws, so I'm assuming I'm in front with second highest pair. He doesn't have an ace, since he'd probably have bet on the flop or check-raised me. If he's hit the jack he'll probably bet, assuming that I don't have the ace, since I checked the turn. If he does have the jack the likelihood is his kicker is worse than mine (or else he'd have AJ), or... if he's calling with a pair on the flop, and made two pairs with the jack on the river. There's an outside chance he's slowplaying a set, but in this situation I'd ignore it. He's either: Drawing for a flush/straight, missed and is bluffing. Drawing for the flush/straight and made a pair of jacks. Had a pair on the flop, and made two pair on the river. I think most of the time, I'm in front here and he's hit the jack with a worse kicker than mine. Occasionally, he'll have misplayed his ace and it pays off, and very occasionally he'll be bluffing.

[stevie-p]

Re: Think I played this badly.

Raising pre-flop would've made this a lot easier I think. A raise to 260-280, then a half pot bet on the flop would've taken in IMO. Why was it obvious I didn't have the ace though? A pot sized bet means something doesn't it? NO!!!! at a loose table this would have been a bad play..you would of bet 300 pre , leaving you with a stack of 1200 ..you are 10 handed and in a bad position..regardless if the blinds had an ace they would of called and you woukd of continue bet and probably lost more chips. id consider just how strong a hand k/js is....its a good drawing hand and a decent hand to make a play with...its a trouble hand in this situation and a lot of other ones. again these are only my opinions!!! Thanks stevie. You're right, betting the pot was probably not necessary. If he was going to fold, he would've folded to a smaller bet. Bit of a leak there :) if i had the ace funny enough i would probaly of bet the pot, without it you have nothing and are trying to buy the pot...1/2 the pot is enough here. The river is a tricky one. It didn't make any draws, so I'm assuming I'm in front with second highest pair. He doesn't have an ace, since he'd probably have bet on the flop or check-raised me. If he's hit the jack he'll probably bet, assuming that I don't have the ace, since I checked the turn. If he does have the jack the likelihood is his kicker is worse than mine (or else he'd have AJ), or... if he's calling with a pair on the flop, and made two pairs with the jack on the river. There's an outside chance he's slowplaying a set, but in this situation I'd ignore it. He's either: Drawing for a flush/straight, missed and is bluffing. Drawing for the flush/straight and made a pair of jacks. Had a pair on the flop, and made two pair on the river. I think most of the time, I'm in front here and he's hit the jack with a worse kicker than mine. Occasionally, he'll have misplayed his ace and it pays off, and very occasionally he'll be bluffing.

i find this difficult to understand. you must learn to forget about your hand and try to understand what your opponent might have...i would say he has an ace rag or maybe option 3 ..something like j/9...he isnt bluffing for me. you represented an ace on the flop he called you ...he has something and by the river he has bettered it or has figured you to have a hand like k/j and is trying to extract max value for his hand....he is out of position...assuming he has a similar chip stack he has you beat.... its the fact its key point in your multi is the point im trying to stress...if you call you are crippled , fold and you can remember the situation for next time and push a few times to get the chips back. another thing i like about this post is the fact that the hand doesnt need to be played at all...id say id fold here more times than play with that chip satck.

[stevie-p]

Re: Think I played this badly. sorry that came out a bit muddled ..some of my replies are in your quote.

[Masterplan]

Re: Think I played this badly.

Raising pre-flop would've made this a lot easier I think. A raise to 260-280, then a half pot bet on the flop would've taken in IMO. Why was it obvious I didn't have the ace though? A pot sized bet means something doesn't it? Thanks stevie. You're right, betting the pot was probably not necessary. If he was going to fold, he would've folded to a smaller bet. Bit of a leak there :) The river is a tricky one. It didn't make any draws, so I'm assuming I'm in front with second highest pair. He doesn't have an ace, since he'd probably have bet on the flop or check-raised me. If he's hit the jack he'll probably bet, assuming that I don't have the ace, since I checked the turn. If he does have the jack the likelihood is his kicker is worse than mine (or else he'd have AJ), or... if he's calling with a pair on the flop, and made two pairs with the jack on the river. There's an outside chance he's slowplaying a set, but in this situation I'd ignore it. He's either: Drawing for a flush/straight, missed and is bluffing. Drawing for the flush/straight and made a pair of jacks. Had a pair on the flop, and made two pair on the river. I think most of the time, I'm in front here and he's hit the jack with a worse kicker than mine. Occasionally, he'll have misplayed his ace and it pays off, and very occasionally he'll be bluffing.

its obvious you didnt have the ace because you didnt raise preflop. you didnt bet the turn. to me it looks like he's playing ace and low kicker, and not calling to any draw. then on the river decides you dont ahve the ace and bets at it.

[PokerBarney]

Re: Think I played this badly. "you must learn to forget about your hand and try to understand what your opponent might have" I agree. That's why I bet the flop. My point is that by raising pre-flop, then c-betting my representation of the ace would be far more convincing, and he's much more likely to fold if he has middle/bottom pair or a draw. But you're right, that's a risky play to make. I think it could've been right in this situation though, since the table was very weak-passive. Lots of limping, very little raising pre-flop, no-one wanting to risk much. I think I just needed to follow it through with another bet on the turn. The problem I have is that I'm often too convinced I can bluff someone off a hand - hence the pot bet on the flop. I really need to work on timing my bluffs better, and (as mentioned above), making them appear more genuine by setting up the situation better. There was absolutely no need for me to bet the flop, as it should've been fairly obvious I didn't have a decent ace since I would've raised. But after two checks from him, I may have been tempted to raise any bets on the river, which could have lost me my whole stack since he probably would've gone all in. "the hand doesnt need to be played at all...id say id fold here more times than play with that chip satck." Very true. I guess since I'd played so little, I wanted to get involved. I think limping was right though, and I'd do it again in the same situation. I just need to avoid bluffing in spots like that. And, if I'm going to, bet less. Nice to see that we've all come to the same conclusion though - he has me beaten on the river. His hand - J9o.

[stevie-p]

Re: Think I played this badly. yay i was right:) i guessed j/9:) still an interesting hand and a situation that arises a lot in multis when u are unstacked ....ill think a lot more about it and let u know what i come upwith