Masterplan's personal stt challenge

[Masterplan]

get better at them just finished my 68th $2 nl 9 seater on tribeca. thought its about time to share my stats.

Poker summary			$2 9 seat VC
ROI			31.1%
ITM			47.1%
Total Tourneys			68
Multitable utilization			2.43
Total entries			$149.60
Total prizes			$196.20
SNG Profit			$46.60
$/Tourney			$0.69
# hrs			16.77
$/hr			$2.78
Avg Finish			4.06
Bubble % +/-			11.5%
max OOTM streak			4
SD/tourney			$3.45
Total SD			$28.48
Winning Confidence			94.91%
65%, in	100	tourneys,
profit of	$34.00	to	$103.06
95%, in	100	tourneys,
profit of	-$0.54	to	$137.59
90.00%	confidence in $/tourney
between	$0.00	&	$1.37
100.00%	conf. in $/tourney +/-
$3.00	or, ROI +/-		136.4%

i'm pretty pleased with my ITM but my ROI doesnt look too healthy which seems strange given i win more than any other ITM position.

Finish	%		Number
1st	17.6%		12
2nd	13.2%		9
3rd	16.2%		11
4th	7.4%		5
5th	17.6%		12
6th	13.2%		9
7th	5.9%		4
8th	4.4%		3
9th	4.4%		3

how is everyone else doing with their stt records atm?

[socky1]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge Well done MP looks pretty decent to me I dont keep records of performence at the moment altough I would imagine they would be pretty simlar.

[PokerBarney]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge Winning and coming 5th are even.. I'm assuming top 3-4 get paid? So you're bubbling as much as you are winning. 17% win is great, but your ROI would go up dramatically if you managed to reduce your bubbles. I've been thinking about trying STTs. Seems everyone reckons they are best for building a bankroll relatively easily/quickly. Will finish this month of SNGs first though :)

[AJ]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge I play 5 player STT's on virgin, top 2 get paid my record is

1st	17.1%	6
2nd	22.9%	8
3rd	40.0%	14
4th	14.3%	5
5th	5.7%	2

40% bubble failure is killing me, gotta turn those 3rd into 2nds at least

[GaF]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge

40% bubble failure is killing me' date=' gotta turn those 3rd into 2nds at least[/quote'] Hmmm ...... any thoughts on why that's happening? Are you too aggressive and running into better hands when maybe a little more patience would get you into the money, or are you too passive and getting blinded away to the point where you have no fold equity. Conventional wisdom seem to be the aggressive approach on the bubble pays dividends, however with the relatively flat payout structure of STT's I think that there is a lot to be said for "hanging in there" (ESPECIALLY at the lower limits that we play - where people find it hard to fold). Am currently reading "Online Ace" by Scott Fischman - and he is big on the aggressive approach: "Four players left. Three will get paid. Time to buckle down, tighten up and survive long enought to make the money, right? Wrong. ... To build a large stack you're going to have to overcome your survival instincts and start playing a super-aggressive poker that some might call reckless."

[PAULM03]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge This is doing my head in at the minute. I've strated playing short-handed STT's again on SO, I can get to 3rd without a problem, I then start playing super aggressive as I'm usually down to around 10BB but I always seem to run into better hands. I think I'm going to give poker a break, I'm on a downer with it again lately. Nothing seems to be standing up for me.

[spannerjago]

[Masterplan]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge update after 100 stt's, varying between $2 and $3 now with ~$100 bankroll for them

#Tourneys		100
Total Entries		$232.10
Total Prizes		$287.10
Total SNG Profits		$55.00
ROI		23.7%
ITM		44.0%
$/Tourney		$0.55
#hrs		26.08
$/hr		$2.11
Avg Finish		4.04
min/tourney		15.7
Overall SD		$3.61
Overall MT utilization		2.31

with still decent finishing positions

Finish	%	Number
1st	19.0%	19
2nd	12.0%	12
3rd	13.0%	13
4th	12.0%	12
5th	16.0%	16
6th	15.0%	15
7th	4.0%	4
8th	5.0%	5
9th	4.0%	4

[robilaruk]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge :@ SHIT :@ Damo

[robilaruk]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge decent finishes there MP do you find yourself folding lots of marginal hands because you are multi-tabling? Damo

update after 100 stt's, varying between $2 and $3 now with ~$100 bankroll

[Masterplan]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge define marginal, depends on the stage of the tourny and my table image. generally by the time the bubble comes i've got a TAF(think about it) image so can raise marginal(as i define it sklansky 4/5/6) and force folds from anyone.

[AJ]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge

Hmmm ...... any thoughts on why that's happening? Are you too aggressive and running into better hands when maybe a little more patience would get you into the money, or are you too passive and getting blinded away to the point where you have no fold equity.

Not sure, but in at least 50% of the cases where I bubble, i'[ve been chip leader with 3 players left. When I've been chip leader, I've been too tight, by this stage BB is 400 chips, only 7500 chips on the table, so even as chip leader with say 3k chips, losing a BB is a big loss. I think I don't defend my blinds enough. My problem is if I try a blind defence, and get reraised, I'm down a third of my chips. I think it comes down to having he disiplince to play the right cards, it's starting to be a mental thing now. I seem to either be too passive and get blinded away, or play over agressive and hit better cards. Just need to find the middle ground

[robilaruk]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge lets see Level 1 and 2 folded to you in middle position and you have KQ KJ A10 etc cards which look great but are actually really poor whats your play - fold, limp call or raise? I am not talking 100/220 blinds with a stack of a 100 or so, but playing through the early levels without getting short stacked I found that by multitabling I threw that rubbish away and didn't get involved, whereas when I single tabled after 10 mins of folding hands I pick up A4 suited and it looks like a monster from UTG+1..... :\ Damo

define marginal' date=' depends on the stage of the tourny and my table image. generally by the time the bubble comes i've got a TAF(think about it) image so can raise marginal(as i define it sklansky 4/5/6) and force folds from anyone.[/quote']

[Masterplan]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge

lets see Level 1 and 2 folded to you in middle position and you have KQ KJ A10 etc cards which look great but are actually really poor whats your play - fold, limp call or raise? I am not talking 100/220 blinds with a stack of a 100 or so, but playing through the early levels without getting short stacked I found that by multitabling I threw that rubbish away and didn't get involved, whereas when I single tabled after 10 mins of folding hands I pick up A4 suited and it looks like a monster from UTG+1..... :\ Damo

i'd always try and get in cheap with any 2 broadway cards, there's not enough chips on the table to risk missing the chance to limp with them, so given that the stt's i've been playing have been starting stacks of 2000, blinds start 20/40, 30/60, 50/100, 75/150, 100/200. increase every 8 minutes. i've limped with those until theres at least 5 people left then i'd be raising every other one of the marginals roughly, and limping with them every other time. hands i'd limp with: any suited ace, any 2 broadway cards, suited or not. if they were suited i'd consider calling a small 1x/2x raise.

[slapdash]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge

I play 5 player STT's on virgin, top 2 get paid my record is

1st	17.1%	6
2nd	22.9%	8
3rd	40.0%	14
4th	14.3%	5
5th	5.7%	2

40% bubble failure is killing me, gotta turn those 3rd into 2nds at least

I know in a later post you say that a lot of the time you bubble, you're chip leader when it gets down to three players, but just looking at the raw figures: I think a better than average (but not completely dominant) player, playing tight aggressive poker to start with, should expect to come third a bit more often than second or first. The weaker, looser players will sometimes build a large stack, and (more often) go out early. I don't know the prize distribution between 1st and 2nd, but it looks as though you're close to breaking even. Sure, you need to improve the results to make a profit, but 35 tournaments is a tiny sample, really. I'm not trying to say you shouldn't be thinking about how to do better, but the figures don't suggest panicking yet!

[GaF]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge

I think I don't defend my blinds enough.

Have heard it said a few times that "blind defending" is overrated and overdone. I made a big thing of it in some PL games, but that was more of a joke than serious poker...... Unless you notice someone specifically picking on your blinds, then it is better not to "defend your blinds" with substandard cards. When you do play back at someone from your blinds - you want to be the aggressor - so with the numbers you're talking about, you're probably reraising all in..........

[PokerBarney]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge Masterplan - "there's not enough chips on the table to risk missing the chance to limp with them" I don't understand this.. could you explain?

[Masterplan]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge

Masterplan - "there's not enough chips on the table to risk missing the chance to limp with them" I don't understand this.. could you explain?

the cost of calling is greatly outweighed by the implied odds of hitting with them(2p/straight/flush)

[Masterplan]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge decided i should get back round to clearing some bonuses and i've got $120 waiting at poker.co.uk, since ...

For every $50 you rake' date=' we'll credit you $10 back to your account.[/quote'] every 100 $5 stts i only get $10 back, i'd better get going. doing ok so far.

Poker summary			$5 stt boss
ROI			93.2%
ITM			50.0%
Total Tourneys			8
Multitable utilization			1.69
Total entries			$44.00
Total prizes			$85.00
SNG Profit			$41.00
$/Tourney			$5.13
# hrs			3.25
$/hr			$12.61
Avg Finish			4.50
Bubble % +/-			25.00%
max OOTM streak			2
SD/tourney			$11.58
Total SD			$32.74
Winning Confidence			89.48%

Finish	%		Number
1st	37.5%		3
2nd	0.0%		0
3rd	12.5%		1
4th	0.0%		0
5th	0.0%		0
6th	0.0%		0
7th	37.5%		3
8th	0.0%		0
9th	12.5%		1
10th	0.0%		0

the third place i coulda done better but i'm tired and it'd been going for an hour

[PokerBarney]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge "the cost of calling is greatly outweighed by the implied odds of hitting with them(2p/straight/flush)" So if there were more chips on the table (ie, more players) you could fold them? Im confused..

[robilaruk]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge what he is saying is it only cost 30 chips to limp as it is level 1 and I could win a monster pot when my K 10 hits 2 pair (thats the 'implied odds' bit, what you can actually win, not what the odds of hitting your hand actually is) however I would say that it is bonkers to limp simply because it could cost you all your chips as others are also playing 2 high cards and people are going to be all in with any pair/str/flush draw and I wouldn't fancy taking the chance of being outdrawn with a marginal holding like K10 at Level 1 For me I would have to hit the flop REALLY hard - str/trips to be even thinking of sticking more chips in the pot - people don't care about their chips early on and will generally play any two in the hope of doubling up, and because it 'ONLY costs 30 chips out of 1500/2000 so I can afford to lose it' yes it is only 30 if you are prepared to lay them down when the betting gets stiff. IMHO, chuck the rubbish and don't get drawn into playing to hit a monster early, UNLESS you are very good at flop play Damo

"the cost of calling is greatly outweighed by the implied odds of hitting with them(2p/straight/flush)" So if there were more chips on the table (ie, more players) you could fold them? Im confused..

[Masterplan]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge

"the cost of calling is greatly outweighed by the implied odds of hitting with them(2p/straight/flush)" So if there were more chips on the table (ie, more players) you could fold them? Im confused..

getting a chip lead, even a very marginal one, say only 500 chips, on a stt is of enormous value. people fold to you more and respect your plays more. if it was a mtt, then this kind of chip lead would be much less important as more players or a bigger stack could pop up almost at any time. once you have the chip lead in a stt, there is NO reason why you cant go on to win fairly easily.

[AJ]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge

however I would say that it is bonkers to limp simply because it could cost you all your chips as others are also playing 2 high cards and people are going to be all in with any pair/str/flush draw and I wouldn't fancy taking the chance of being outdrawn with a marginal holding like K10 at Level 1 For me I would have to hit the flop REALLY hard - str/trips to be even thinking of sticking more chips in the pot - people don't care about their chips early on and will generally play any two in the hope of doubling up, and because it 'ONLY costs 30 chips out of 1500/2000 so I can afford to lose it' yes it is only 30 if you are prepared to lay them down when the betting gets stiff. IMHO, chuck the rubbish and don't get drawn into playing to hit a monster early, UNLESS you are very good at flop play

I fully agree of this, although I'd also play with 2 pair, but not go hard with them if there's a flush or straight draw on the board. I've not seen the advantage of the 500 chip lead that masterplan talks about, perhaps he's playing more expensive STT's than me.

[PokerBarney]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge "the cost of calling is greatly outweighed by the implied odds of hitting with them(2p/straight/flush)" But surely that's true with any two cards. If you're hitting big hands like 2 pair and above, it doesn't necessarily matter how high the pairs are, and if you're making a 3 board card straight or flush, you're going to go to the felt regardless of how high it is in the early levels. So by your logic, you're going to limp every hand? A chip lead can be useful, but only if you've got double your opponents. A marginal chip lead can vanish in one hand. And I still don't get this - "there aren't enough chips on the table to fold". So if there were more chips (more players / deeper stacks), you could fold? This might be true in the later levels when everyone's M is decreasing dramatically, but in early levels there are plenty of chips, and yours are not at risk. There's no reason to get involved with mediocre hands (it was SOOOOTED) unless you've got great position and reads on your opponents. Or, you're playing on pacific, where A high is the NUTZ. :)

[Masterplan]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge

And I still don't get this - "there aren't enough chips on the table to fold". So if there were more chips (more players / deeper stacks), you could fold? This might be true in the later levels when everyone's M is decreasing dramatically, but in early levels there are plenty of chips, and yours are not at risk. There's no reason to get involved with mediocre hands (it was SOOOOTED) unless you've got great position and reads on your opponents.

in a stt there is a set number of chips on the table. in the early levels the cost of calling with JT K9s Q9s KT QT AT, if you can get in cheap. is greatly outweighed by the value of the chips you will get if they hit what you're looking for, straight, 2 pair, trips, flush. obviously if you call a raise with them and only hit top pair, your kicker will always be weak and you cant go about playing it hard unless you have those reads on your opponents. but if you do hit, you can play fairly agressively and be fairly sure that one other person who has limped in has, some sort of draw, top or middle pair, and will be happy to call string bets down to the river. hell they may even go all in on TPTK and you have them nailed, an easy double up and one less player. i'm not avocating normal play with these, but i always set around 1/4(300/500) of my chips to play freely with on the first few levels to look for these early advantages. play at later levels is very difficult with a small stack for me, so i look for the early opportunity to vastly increase my M.

[AJ]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge

hell they may even go all in on TPTK and you have them nailed, an easy double up and one less player.

Certainly seen that a lot, it's a deeply stupid gutter call imho. The number of times I've seen them knocked out by trips or two pair is huge.

[Masterplan]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge i've had my first taste of the withdrawl streak, and its extremely visible. heres the picture. i'll give you one guess as to where i withdrew some profit, and another as to when i reversed the withdrawl

[Masterplan]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge having jsut erached the 150 mark figured i'd post current goings.

Overall Summary
#Tourneys		151
Total Entries		$443.30
Total Prizes		$542.90
Total SNG Profits		$99.60
ROI		22.5%
ITM		40.4%
$/Tourney		$0.66
#hrs		43.38
$/hr		$2.30
Avg Finish		4.29
min/tourney		17.2
Overall SD		$4.92
Overall MT utilization		2.05
100.0%	conf. in $/tourney +/-
$2.48	ROI +/-	84.5%

Finish	%	Number
1st	18.5%	28
2nd	11.3%	17
3rd	10.6%	16
4th	9.9%	15
5th	15.9%	24
6th	15.2%	23
7th	7.9%	12
8th	6.0%	9
9th	4.0%	6
10th	0.7%	1

[Masterplan]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge given that i win more than any other finishing position ... i wa thinking that maybe some ladder tournaments would be possibly valuable for me ... anyone got any ideas on where it might be worth me having a go at them?

[PokerBarney]

Re: Masterplan's personal stt challenge Have a crack. I'm wanting to have a go too, since my STT stats are the same. Ladbrokes, DreamPoker, SpinPalace etc all run them. From what I've heard, the first levels are mind numbingly easy, but the last level is like playing the FT of the WSOP. With such large prizes on offer though, it's got to be worth investing $100 or so. Just make sure you find a good one that gives tokens back to lower levels so you don't have to start all over again. Interestingly, my SNG stats differ slightly from yours above (playing 45 man events with top 7 paying):

Total entries	$39.60
Total prizes	$66.00
Total profit	$26.40
Total ROI %	66.67
Total hours	40.83
$/hour	$0.65
Total tournies	33
$/tourney	$0.80
ITM %	30.3
Avg finish	13.39

Although my ITM is lower, my ROI is higher. I guess there's something to be said for smaller payout ranges. I'd like to have my ITM up to 40% really, then my ROI would be something like 80-90%.