What Happens Next?

[Valiant23]

Playing in a turbo MTT I went from a small to 2x Average stack after a run of 3 or 4 very good hands when I get dealt; ~#.> on my big blind. OK - I made a mistake here by not raising pre-flop. I was torn by indecision and ended up just limping, so accept that I lose any initiative. I decided to make up for this aggression should the flop be favourable. There were 3 other callers all with smaller stacks. The flop comes; ######'# !){ .%^( What should I have done, and what happens? I'll put the turn up later.:)

[Blade]

Re: What Happens Next? me - put in a bet for half the pot. any re-raise I fold as I'm beaten. any callers, I'll check the turn (assuming no queen arrives in which case I'll probably bet again or check-raise) and fold if I get bet against. Flop was favourable for anyone limping in with A-x and all those JT/T9 limpers now have straight draws + probably limpers with flush/backdoor flushes who wont give up either. you really ought to have bet pre-flop to get rid of the crap hands that are now probably worth soemthing. my 2 cents :)

[ThePro19]

Re: What Happens Next?

me - put in a bet for half the pot. any re-raise I fold as I'm beaten. any callers, I'll check the turn (assuming no queen arrives in which case I'll probably bet again or check-raise) and fold if I get bet against. Flop was favourable for anyone limping in with A-x and all those JT/T9 limpers now have straight draws + probably limpers with flush/backdoor flushes who wont give up either. you really ought to have bet pre-flop to get rid of the crap hands that are now probably worth soemthing. my 2 cents :)

I'm with blade on this one, put in a raise (however much you are prepared to lose) and if you are re-raised then you are beaten and should fold. However, one thing I don't necessarily agree with is that the others would have folded pre-flop, particularly anyone with an A, so in my opinion, you may well have saved yourself some chips. Without knowing the flop, I would probably have raised pretty big pre-flop, but having seen the flop, you probably did right. Sometimes it pays to be cautious. Last night played a 6pak on betfair. Got to heads up and got dealt KK. I put in a minimal raise hoping for a call. He re-raised me, minimal raise again. I called. Just like here, flop came with an A. He put in a minimum bet. Now he may have had a pp lower than mine, but I decided not to chance it and folded... a hard thing to do with KK. Went on to come 2nd because couldn't get anything after that. I bet you're now going to say that you stayed in the hand and a Q hit the 4th or river. ;)

[GaF]

Re: What Happens Next? Agree 100% with Blade .... Only reason I can see for not raising Pre Flop - it was a turbo, which I don't play much, but imagine is quite a bit looser than normal - if you were in early position and confident of having a raiser after you...... But given that you didn't get a raise in pre flop, you HAVE to "ask" where you are ...... any action back to you and you have to fold.....

[brael]

Re: What Happens Next? 'king QQ... developing a hatred of that hand!! :lol

[Valiant23]

Re: What Happens Next? I must stress that I knew my mistake soon as I just checked, but I also knew 2 things. 1-I would have been out of position post flop. 2-Turbo games can be notorious for loose play as mentioned above (although to be fair to SO/Boss it was one of the better 'turbos' compared with the Tribeca ones) Anyway having cocked up pre flop I felt that caution was the key here. I hadn't advertised the fact that I was on a Premium pkt pr, and I was also aware how you can be over aggressive when you get the runs of good hands, which I'd been getting that allowed my to jump from a couple of hundred chips to near the top pretty quickly. BTW - You all know that I didn't go out on this hand, cos I went on to win the tourney, but I was starting this thread whilst still playing. 'Turn' in 10 minutes.

[Valiant23]

Re: What Happens Next? The flop was; ######'# !){ .%^( And what I did was check. I basically felt I was now behind to too many other possibles that could have put me out. I felt I had nothing to get aggressive about, as I'd failed to weed out any weaker hands. I would have to make a judgment call depending on the actions of other players, of whom I had no really info. on. All 3 players checked too. The turn came; ? :puke What happened next.....

[Mivi]

Re: What Happens Next? I'd put a 2x bet in next.

[Galronix]

Re: What Happens Next? AAARRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH This is worse than the telly...Just as your about to find out who the killer is...the bloody adverts come on :wall :wall :wall :wall :wall Sorry...I'd do the same as Mivi...If a player does not have the A, he's gone....If your raised then it's goodbye

[PAULM03]

Re: What Happens Next? Depends how good the players were. If they had a read on you any bet would probably have been met with a raise, muscling you out. My take is you have 2x average stack, why waste any chips on a hand where there is such a huge number of hands you're behind to. I would check and try to see the river cheaply.

[GaF]

Re: What Happens Next? By not betting on the turn, IMO you gave up on the hand - only a Q could improve you, so you have to assume you're not going to improve - you've offered free cards to your opponents - I check here with fold to any bet..... Far too passive all the way through IMO Mr V .......

[ThePro19]

Re: What Happens Next? I would put in a 'feeler' bet on the turn. If called, you may get someone chasing the flush. I reckon the only other 'check on flop and call on turn' hands would be AA or KK... and you're behind to both. If your feeler bet gets raised, they have slow-played 2 pair and then a full house. I don't believe anyone would have checked the flop with only a pair of aces.

[Football-Tipper]

Re: What Happens Next? Was it sportingodds? If so and you was playing Danno375 I would say he was holding Pocket Rockets but at this point got D/C and you won the hand...Danno posts on bad beat sportingodds blah blah blah and the rest is history.. Am I right?

[Blade]

Re: What Happens Next? I'm with GaF here. Your betting suggests to others that you have give up on the hand and any bet against me here and I would fold. Presumably you go onto to win the hand but this is more from the bad play from all in the pot and I would expect to lose from this situation more often than profit from it. Check and fold any bet for me.

[ubermonkey1]

Re: What Happens Next? how many on table mr v?7 plus and odds are theres a ace ,also the flat calls before the flop suggest a ace rag at least ,with 3 others in id go for the smallish bet 2xbb just to see where i stood ,obviously we dont know what info that would have provided .on the turn i think i would have bet 1.5x pot . you said you had a stack advantage +if players see your on a bit of a run this gives you a small psycological advantage,even if they have a ace (which is less likely with 2 on board)they may start to worry about kicker or if youve hit a set,plus it will at least get rid of draws ,a smaller bet probly wont.also depends on pot size v stack size if its only smallish blinds id defo go this way,but later on think id still put in some ,about 1 x pot because thats usually enough to scare of the draws etc if the're small stacked.

[Valiant23]

Re: What Happens Next? Uber - It was a 10 seat table.;) F-T - It WAS SO.:lol Well I was paralysed by this second A to be truthful and I got to the point where I didn't want to play the hand anymore, so 2nd to act, I checked. The nest player to act went all in - about half of my stack. I desperately wanted to call, as there is nothing nicer than looking at a big pocket pair and winning with them, and it IS human nature to want to play/participate. The timer went all the way round, and I folded with the words "qq..." in the chat box. The guy who won the pot? He very kindly showed! I'll save that for a second. There are several points to this thread. I KNOW I played the hand poorly from start to finish considering my hole cards, but any anguish I felt could have been either avoided by a pre flop raise, or compounded had my pre flop raise been called. I did feel quite proud at being able to get away from pocket Q's, something I (and most players with prem. prs{?}) do have trouble with on occassion. The fact is that I gained more by folding this hand as rather than being disappointed in my play I felt good because I felt that given the board I made a good fold. It also shows that you can make a mistake in your decision making and it can cost you a hand without it costing you your tournament. I'm sure everyone at some time has made a mistake pre flop and tried to compensate post flop. I managed to avoid that and recovered to win the tourney........... With Pocket QUEENS!! :rollin :rollin :rollin Oh and the guy showed..... [&] ,,,,,&,,,, :wall :$ :$ :$

[ThePro19]

Re: What Happens Next? Mr V - I personally think you did the right thing in folding once he had bet. And you're right, it is very tough to fold good cards, but if you feel you're behind, then there is only one thing a good player can do. I have folded KK many times both online and in live when a A has hit the board. I very nearly folded AA once too in a live game when a real pro went all-in for about 7.5k. I had about 11k. There was a Q on the board and was scared he had pocket Q's. But after some deliberation, I finally called... he was holding AQ. And boy, did I get some stick from him for taking my time to call - he reckoned there was no decision to make. Some pro he is then!

[Valiant23]

Re: What Happens Next? Talk about Deja Vu; :unsure :unsure :unsure Hand #208283510 at table: Lunchtime Turbo Started: Fri Feb 17 13:04:07 2006 Mü is at seat 1 with 1000.00 koponen is at seat 2 with 990.00 gambler900 is at seat 3 with 880.00 oceans7 is at seat 4 with 920.00 Isie is at seat 5 with 1230.00 Higgs23pl is at seat 6 with 980.00 elmcroft is at seat 7 with 1030.00 Nick270 is at seat 8 with 980.00 petemarino is at seat 9 with 1000.00 ossi10 is at seat 10 with 3100.00 Higgs23pl posts the large blind 20.00 Isie posts the small blind 10.00 Isie: --, -- Higgs23pl: Qd, Qs elmcroft: --, -- Nick270: --, -- petemarino: --, -- ossi10: --, -- Mü: --, -- koponen: --, -- gambler900: --, -- oceans7: --, -- Pre-flop: elmcroft: Raise 100.00 Nick270: Fold petemarino: Call 100.00 ossi10: Fold Mü: Fold koponen: Fold gambler900: Fold oceans7: Call 100.00 Isie: Fold Higgs23pl: Raise 500.00 - This must have been a better call!:ok elmcroft: Fold petemarino: Call 500.00 oceans7: Call 500.00 Flop (Board: 8c, 10c, 4s): Higgs23pl: All in petemarino: All in oceans7: All in Here I fear I've walked into trips. :sad Showdown: oceans7 shows: 5c, 4h (a pair of Fours) :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin - Well he admits to being 4 short of the full eleven Higgs23pl shows: Qd, Qs (a pair of Queens) petemarino shows: As, 8s (a pair of Eights) :unsure :unsureReally? after a 50% stack re - raise??? Turn (Board: 8c, 10c, 4s, 10d): River (Board: 8c, 10c, 4s, 10d, 2s): Higgs23pl shows: Qd, Qs (two pair, Queens and Tens) Sidepot 2: Higgs23pl wins the pot of 160 with two pair, Queens and Tens Mainpot: Higgs23pl wins the pot of 2870 with two pair, Queens and Tens (0.00 rake were taken for this hand)

[ThePro19]

Re: What Happens Next? That's typical internet poker for you. Many (poor) internet players will call even if they have hit the lowest card on board. Or sometimes they may not even have hit but have AK or something like that, hoping they hit on the last 2... and against me they usually do! Like I've said many times, there is very little skill left in the game.

[guesswest]

Re: What Happens Next? Val - what were stacks and blinds here? Is hard to know what to do without that info... Edit: pidgin english

[Valiant23]

Re: What Happens Next? I take it you mean in the OP guess?

Hand #207284534 at table: Lunchtime Turbo Started: Thu Feb 16 13:29:16 2006 trontik is at seat 1 with 3035.00 draculas0 is at seat 2 with 1720.00 bugge4 is at seat 3 with 600.00 Chambes is at seat 4 with 2745.00 teme is at seat 5 with 1935.00 mcasd is at seat 7 with 1930.00 pitusan is at seat 8 with 2282.00 fop6900 is at seat 9 with 860.00 Higgs23pl is at seat 10 with 6565.00 Higgs23pl posts the large blind 200.00 fop6900 posts the small blind 100.00 fop6900: --, -- Higgs23pl: Qd, Qs trontik: --, -- draculas0: --, -- bugge4: --, -- Chambes: --, -- teme: --, -- mcasd: --, -- pitusan: --, -- Pre-flop: trontik: Fold draculas0: Fold bugge4: Fold Chambes: Call 200.00 teme: Fold mcasd: Fold pitusan: Call 200.00 fop6900: Call 200.00 Higgs23pl: Check Flop (Board: 7h, Ac, 8h): fop6900: Check Higgs23pl: Check Chambes: Check pitusan: Bet 200.00 fop6900: Fold Higgs23pl: Call 200.00 Chambes: Call 200.00 Turn (Board: 7h, Ac, 8h, As): Higgs23pl: Check Chambes: All in pitusan: Fold Higgs23pl: Fold

This is the hand history. :ok I think a 4xBB would have taken any crappy limpers out and left me up against an Ax or K-connected

[guesswest]

Re: What Happens Next? Cheers - nothing to add in that case. Definitely a pre-flop raise in order, but sure you knew that before posting. I was just curious since you'd mentioned it was a turbo, thought you may only have very few blinds despite an above average stack. In which case the limp could possibly have been ok, based on the idea that you'd be all in to any q high or lower flop, anticipating a call from anyone that'd caught the flop. I would say though, that the fact that you'd just hit a run of hands immediately previously should make you more likely to raise since you're more likely to get calls. Think there's a tendency to be weak in those situations for fear that your lucks due to run out or something when it's all the more reason to put money in.

[Valiant23]

Re: What Happens Next? Thanks mate. :ok

[robilaruk]

Re: What Happens Next? lesson no1 - learnt - raise preflop with premium hands :ok lesson no2 - check - u are on a hiding to nothing here:puke

• any muppet playing Ace small is calling (its an ACE!!)
• any muppet playing 2 suited hearts is calling (7 4 coz they're sooooooooted!!)
• anyone playing a PP is calling, coz they are hoping to hit their trips and outdraw the Ace.... :sad (actually u are ahead here IF they dont have AA, KK 88 or 77 - and are completely f-u-c-k-e-d against any of those 4, unless u hit runner runner)
• anyone limping with J9, J10, 56 and all those other middling connectors is calling for their freaky middle pair/str draw etc regardless of pot odds :(
• any two middling cards has hit 2 pr and they are calling (not raising) coz they are 'clever' :spank
• any trips are calling (nice play:dude )

so just check, but if you do have to make a bet, make a probe of about 1/4 to 1/3 pot and be prepared to fold to a raise or check/fold the turn to flop call and a decent turn bet Damo :cheers

Playing in a turbo MTT I went from a small to 2x Average stack after a run of 3 or 4 very good hands when I get dealt; ~#.> on my big blind. OK - I made a mistake here by not raising pre-flop. I was torn by indecision and ended up just limping, so accept that I lose any initiative. I decided to make up for this aggression should the flop be favourable. There were 3 other callers all with smaller stacks. The flop comes; ######'# !){ .%^( What should I have done, and what happens? I'll put the turn up later.:)

[robilaruk]

Re: What Happens Next? lesson 3 - learnt - nice one:ok lesson four - check again and fold to any bet - this is not the time to get clever and make a probe bet, be grateful you got a free card and hope you get another one and if the river is a Q? check and maybe call a small bet, I would be more inclined to call a bet if the QH shows as it may be a flush hand betting, but if the other Q turns up and there is a substantial bet I would have to think about it before calling (esp if there are players to act behind me. Just make it simple and raise next time, ay? :eek :eek :eek Obviously if you have type of read at all, then make your choice based on that, I can't see any reason to call flop or turn even for the correct/implied pot odds to draw a Q (Q) - (anyway you shouldn't be getting the correct odds!) Damo :cheers

The flop was; And what I did was check. I basically felt I was now behind to too many other possibles that could have put me out. I felt I had nothing to get aggressive about, as I'd failed to weed out any weaker hands. I would have to make a judgment call depending on the actions of other players, of whom I had no really info. on. All 3 players checked too. The turn came; ? :puke What happened next.....

[robilaruk]

Re: What Happens Next? spot on GW, you have a premium hand and have been raising - this is now the time to pull the trigger and let someone look you up, u only fear AA or KK here pre flop (tho for some it seems AK or A suited as well...... :tongue2 ) and its 110-1 that someone has AA or KK. so get your chips in whilst you are ahead:loon , yes we all know that the muppet with A3o would have called you and in this case you would have lost (assuming no Q on the river) but in general folks can't be worried about being outdrawn if they want to play poker, coz if they ARE scared about losing to an inferior hand I suggest they take up tiddlywinks or crochet or anything else less stressfull where they don't have to make a decision.....:zzz (alternatively they could join me on any cash or tourny table and fold their winning {non AA hands} to my preflop raises and/or probe bets with 2nd pair on the flop etc:dude ) Just my thoughts Damo :cheers

caught the flop. I would say though, that the fact that you'd just hit a run of hands immediately previously should make you more likely to raise since you're more likely to get calls. Think there's a tendency to be weak in those situations for fear that your lucks due to run out or something when it's all the more reason to put money in.