Betonbet 2 X $3300 Freerolls

[The Quiet Man]

Re: Betonbet 2 X $3300 Freerolls ThePro19, It certainly looks like you were unlucky mate. I'd need to know what the betting was pre-flop, positions on table and size of stacks. He obviously had more chips than you and you may have scared him off with a big bet pre flop. (maybe even an all-in, depending on position) If you limped in then so did he and he could have anything - in fact if he had 10 J then he had the straight. All-in was not the worse bet but I think you've told him that you have top pair and you're overbetting through fear of the flush. If it wasn't making too much of a dent in his chips then it was a straightforward call, anything else and he's taking a gamble - but probably only doing what around 75% of us would have done! :hope The A K is a difficult one though and there are many ways to play it - in fact I reached a final table tonight and received it in early position (when chip leader) and I managed to fold it. The decision paid off as someone went all in with pocket 9's against A J and the 9's held up! (there was no King either, so I'd have lost a fair bit) :dude If I'd been short stacked or in late position it would take a miracle for me to put it down - I'd have still lost though! :cry Anyway, I'm not sure if this is making any sense - Mr V will be along with his views shortly no doubt and he explains things a lot better than me.:notworthy Good luck anyway The Pro19 :ok

[Valiant23]

Re: Betonbet 2 X $3300 Freerolls

Now I know I made a huge mistake with the J10 earlier, but would you have taken the risk with the AK? Are you playing to win, or just get into the money? Would be interested in your opinions.

:lol @TQM - What he means is that I'm sober.;) For me playing in a tourney is about defining your aims. For example in the dollar up (SO) I just want to get as high as possible, so I play tight, but if the right hand comes along, well:nana (hopefully). My first aim in a tourney of this size (assuming I want to do well - I don't always care tbh) is to avoid the arse-hole players, but at the same time have a comfortable stack (say double up), although I don't place much time restraints on it, as I'm here for the long-haul. The next stage (as well as still avoiding the 'lucky') is to fold a lot of cards, limp to the flop whenever possible (especially with small pairs - I will even go with suited A/K and rags dependant on position). Weigh up whether I call all-ins dependant on my assessment of the players. At the first break after your toilet break re-assess where you stand. A little stack may mean you just want to hang on and maybe limp into the money, an average stack/position you aim a little higher - BUT - If you have a large stack this is the toughest time of all, because if you aren't careful you will start to think you're Doyle Brunson and any cards will win for you (don't believe me, have a look at the leaderboard in the next tourney. I am 90% sure the guy who is leading will be lucky to get to the final table.). So with a big stack your aim is still the same (in my opinion). GET TO THE MONEY! Then re-assess everything above and the players on your table. Then keep doing what got you so far. You know how the prizes get bigger the longer you last? Aim for the nest stage and reassess. All of this analysis is vital, because it could be 3hrs down the line and you're bored or tired or want to go the pub. A common mistake made by a lot of MTT players is that the 'above average stack' mantra. I have seen it written by experts that you in order to play you need at least an average stack. Absolute bollocks! Offer me an average stack or AA and similar 3 times in the next half hour and I know which I'd take. The key is picking your moment to make your last stand. I saw on those % boxes that 55 is a 50% coinflip against.............. Q9s.:unsure What I would say is try and hang on for as long as possible. If the blinds are 2 hands away and you can't cover BB and SB and get 22, then go for it (maybe). Maybe the same with A and 8 or above even. If the blinds are gonna take half your stack then hang in there. How many times have you lost all but 50 chips, then been dealt AA or similar? The reason I am advocating survival is being 20th out of 20 is much better than being chip leader after an hour then blowing your stack (believe me I've done both). I have made a come-back and won a nice tourney when all I was doing for most of the night was surviving. As regards going all in with that AK - I'm sorry I think it was the wrong call. Most of the reasons TQM gave are sound. You mustn't think well so-and-so was lucky so I want my share. AK is a strong hand preflop, and with a K on the flop it may have been so tempting to go all in, but this takes it out of your hands and you can blame the cards. You could have made a minimum bet and that gives you the opportunity to get away from the hand in the face of any reraise. My guess is he may have just called you and made a big raise when his flush hits. Then you pack it in and wait for your turn. A pair of K's is a strong pair, especially with an A kicker, but the hearts on board should have had you playing it a little less aggressively, because it is still only a pair. Now after all this bull Gaf will be along and make a much better (and much shorter case). Hope this helps though mate. :hope

[The Quiet Man]

Re: Betonbet 2 X $3300 Freerolls

:lol @TQM - What he means is that I'm sober.;) :hope

Mr V - I've been off the drink for 3 days now - do you think I'd have written that with a drink in me? That was as long as 'War and Peace' to me!!! :lol Usual sound and constructive post V, but you're right, GAF will be along shortly with reasoning that will be easy to understand! :loon

[GaF]

Re: Betonbet 2 X $3300 Freerolls

Was I right going all-in with AK with the flop K high and 2 hearts on board?

Sorry Mr V - haven't got the time to read your reply fully at the moment - Want to go to bed before it gets light :tongue2 But having skimmed through it, I do disagree I'm afraid!! I say this without knowing what the stacks were - and there are stack levels that could change my mind!! However at this stage of a tournament, if you think you are leading (which you were) and you think he is on a flush draw (which he was) - you can NOT give him free/cheap cards. That, in my view, means a minimum bet of the pot (but preferably more), and if that commits you (which I suspect it did) then an all-in is the move I would have made. Agree with some of Valiants comments - in No Limit, if you have half of the average stack, you are definitely still well in it and there is no need to panic - however when you get to the stage where your stack is less than about 5x big blind, then the game changes for you - you can no longer afford to play your way out of trouble, and with half decent cards (and even not!!), postition, and no action before you, you have to be ready to push all in pre flop - just to pick up the blinds!!! (your stack is still big enough that others will hurt if they call you - later it won't be - your objective is to win hands without a showdown - if your stack is too small, you can't do that as the BB should always call you with any 2 cards) So far as trying to limp into the money - not my play at all - let other people try and limp into the money, and use their passivity to build your stack!! Someone else said a while ago (guesswest?) that if he goes out on the Bubble, whilst making a good, long term value, play, then he is happy, even if he missed the chance to limp into the money!!! I fully agree with this sentiment. Why limp for $0.10 or $3 or whatever when there is a $1000 prize (or similar) to be won? In the long run, going for the main prizes should pay more than limping into small prizes. With AK, in a lot of circumstances (crucial missing information in your post is stack sizes, position and action to you) I would have pushed all in pre flop, hoping to win the blinds without any action, but happy to take my chances with the hand in the unfortunate event someone calls. Remember - it's a LOT harder to call an all in than it is to make one!! Still Poker is a game of diverse opinions and strategies - Mr V isn't wrong. I'm not wrong (I hope) - you need to find what kind of play works for your personality and develop your play around that!!

[ThePro19]

Re: Betonbet 2 X $3300 Freerolls My mistake was playing the J10 earlier and losing 9k of my 10k+ stack. After that I was just surviving. But doubling up twice got me back to over 5k. This got me to about 75th position and back in the money. However, it was not a big stack as bb was 1200. I only called bb pre flop with the AK. Any small raise after the flop would have left me with not much anyway. The other player didn't have much more than me. I guess, like I intimated earlier, that $3 was just not enough of a temptation for me. Having said that, I do understand that you can only get to the bigger prizes if you still have chips. Thanks for all your input, much appreciated. I could have have folded everything and made the money, but I'm here to play poker and not just fold everything until I get to the money and then lose anyway. I am normally a very tight player. This allows me to occasionally bluff in order to advance my chip stack slowly. And it is generally very slowly because I really struggle to get decent cards in mtt's. Or if I get a playable hand, someone has put in a big raise before me and I fold in order to stay in. I mean, in the first hour in this game I only got one pp and that was a 66 which I think I had to fold. I then generally run out of patience watching others play rubbish, getting lucky and having a chip stack 10 times the amount of mine. Oh well, tomorrows another day and there'll be more freerolls. Eventually I will do well in one... if only I can stay patient at the end. Like I said in another post, in my first 6 months of playing live poker just under 2 years ago (and way before I started internet poker or even knew it existed) I reached 9 final tables in 20 starts and had a tidy profit of about £3500. Unfortunately, internet poker has ruined my game and I rarely manage to pass end of buy-in time let alone reach a final table. And the reasons... the presence of internet players, the way they play, and above all lack of patience - something I had before.

[rednutt]

Re: Betonbet 2 X $3300 Freerolls I couldnt make either of these freerolls as i was very :puke . My father played the second night and was not getting any hands and got fed up 40 mins in and threw the chips in...he was actually ahead in the hand and then got rivered. Did anyone get a good result???