hayward2k Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Ok after reading the latest installment of 'Poker Player', Iv'e decided to take the plunge and get Poker Spy. I'm not sure how many of you from here use it, i think iv'e seen GAF mention it before though. Basically I just wanted some advice on what site to join as iv'e only had accounts with BetFred, Coral and Sporting Odds before. The software is compatible with the following sites - PokerStars, TruePoker, Party Poker, Empire Poker, Multi Poker, PokerNow, Intertops, Eurobet, ProCappers, InterPoker, William Hill Poker, Betfair Poker, Littlewoods Poker and Poker Fun Club. Baring in mind i don't own a credit card. I thought I'd pick your brains. Any help is much appreciated! :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help Pretty sure it was Poker Tracker that GaF et al were talking about. Poker office is the other big one. I'd not heard of this piece of software before. From the look of the website seems like it's basically just an advanced odds calculator, which is fair enough. But then it lists one feature: Showing your opponents mucked hands at the showdown! If that's true it's a pretty worrying feature, and I'm not happy about this software floating about from an ethical point of view. Can you confirm that feature works Hay? Out of that list I'd say Party and Betfair are your best bet btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help Showing your opponents mucked hands at the showdown! If that's true it's a pretty worrying feature, and I'm not happy about this software floating about from an ethical point of view. I'm not happy from a "not telling porkies" point of view. Don't believe it for a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help It kinda is believable tho. There are some, clearly fraudulent, programs floating about online that claim to show opponents hole cards while a hands in play etc - those I don't believe. But it's entirely likely that once a hand reaches a showdown that info is stored in the hand histories a prog can retreive from the server. In a casino the player being called has to show their hand and the caller has the chance to muck. But the bettor can request to see the hand if they like. So I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was a function offered by the software for all players, but if it's something only users of additional paid for software get AND the other players are oblivious to their ability to do so, I have a problem with that. Knowing what cards your opponent plays is obviously a huge deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayward2k Posted December 1, 2005 Author Share Posted December 1, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help But then it lists one feature: Showing your opponents mucked hands at the showdown! If that's true it's a pretty worrying feature, and I'm not happy about this software floating about from an ethical point of view. Can you confirm that feature works Hay? Out of that list I'd say Party and Betfair are your best bet btw Cheers, it was highest rated in Poker Play magazine, and other poker software like it have been marked down for being illegal or unethical. I'm not sure whether it actually does show mucked hands yet as I have not used it. I wanted to see what you lot thought first before purchasing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help Some sites (Party Poker I think!!) put mucked hands at showdown in the hand history that is stored on your hard drive. This is available to you if you open the file, and is available to the software as well - so it is true - and it is wrong - but it's the fault of the poker sites - not the software - they are just using information that is freely available to you anyway!!! First off I used Calculatem, then I used Poker Spy - this is a step up from calculatem because it starts to look at your opponents. It isn't bad, but it's quite simplistic. I then tried poker tracker, and this is unquestionably the Daddy of the 3 - it is on a completely different level. It doesn't have an on screen calculator - but in every other department, it is phenomenal. They offer a free trial for 1000 hands - give it a go (with the gametime+ overlay - freely downloadable). Knowing what I know now about the 3 packages, I wouldn't have bothered with Poker Spy or Calculatem!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help Some sites (Party Poker I think!!) put mucked hands at showdown in the hand history that is stored on your hard drive. Really????? That's scandalous!!!! Can you see what your opponents have mucked immediately? I'll have to be more careful with those 72o's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help Yes!!! Only if it goes to showdown, but even if you muck....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereoman Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help I'm surprised that Poker Player didn't even bother testing Poker Tracker. :eyes EDIT: Here's a slightly amusing article (a little bit scary but not at all threatening story) about a British programmer's poker bot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welling Bet Maester Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help Wow guys is anyone actually using this software? Will be a huge advantage to people if they use it against you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kotsba Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help i think that most of the poker players here and in other forums use te poker tracker i dont use any of these poker softwares and i am not tryint to aducate anyone,just to ask something i think its all of us dream to play one day at the wsop. are you going to use the softwares there or are you going to use your brain and play poker???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help Good Question Kotsba. The software has without a shadow of a doubt improved my game when I don't use the software. By better understanding my game, and how I "should" play when I use the software, my game is now significantly better when I don't use the software. It can highlight weaknesses in your game, and it can train you what to look out for when you are at the table. I play frequently at Sporting Odds and Betfred, and to the best of my knowledge there is no software to help in these rooms - yet I manage to achieve my fair share of success there ..... BECAUSE of what I learnt whilst using the software in Betfair, Ladbrokes, PartyPoker, Prima etc....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help i think that most of the poker players here and in other forums use te poker tracker i dont use any of these poker softwares and i am not tryint to aducate anyone,just to ask something i think its all of us dream to play one day at the wsop. are you going to use the softwares there or are you going to use your brain and play poker???? Well now. I am a behind a lot of players on here in terms of experience. Despite that, I believe on my day I can get the better of them because I have a certain amount of understanding of the game. Strangely enough. My opinion of these analytical programs is that they do what we would like to be able to do ourselves, but much quicker and more accurately, and without emotion. I know that my game needs improvement, and if I refuse to use many of the aids available, whether it is a book or software, then is it using your brain to say "No thank you, I'll do it on my own" I will bet that every pro at the latest event has used some aid, and why not. In football Sam Allardyce is famous for being techologically advanced. He has a package at his disposal that includes pitch coverage by loads of cameras, to cover most angles. He has a database on every player (oppo and his own) that can tell him that Kevin Davies scores 37% of his goals from headers near the penalty spot, and that Bolton as a team score 84% of their goals when moves involve 6 passes or less. Is the Bolton manager using his brain? I think so. And I personally would make sure I had some knowledge of the players/forum members attitudes and characteristics before trying to make a moralistic argument with little more than an extremely poor insult and four question marks!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecoldnuts Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help i think that most of the poker players here and in other forums use te poker tracker I don't think thats correct are you going to use the softwares there or are you going to use your brain and play poker???? Using available statistics to analyse your game uses a lot more brain power than those who don't bother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Re: Poker-Spy Help I don't use software personally, but I totally agree that a player using something like Poker Tracker is much more likely to be using their brain than any given player who doesn't. And for that matter, a huge percentage of the pro's use it. Most of this software doesn't really help you play x hand, or tell you what to do while you're in a situation. It may give you the odds, but that's still only one tool amongst many, and if you aren't intelligent/aware enough to put that info in context then it'll lose you money not help you. It's for redux and analysis. You look at stats over many hands and see you have a leak in your small blind, you play jacks badly etc. You learn from it and improve your game. I know of one guy over on the twoplustwo forum who doesn't have to (to use your example) dream of winning a wsop bracelet. He's won 1, was third in another event, and has only ever played two wsop events! He swears by Poker Tracker. Even if you're just using software like this at the most basic level to visualise odds in a hand, you're much more likely to then know those odds when you aren't using the software, than you would be if you never had. Just like the worlds best chess/backgammon/scrabble etc all use software to learn from and improve their game, so do poker players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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