Sco Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I am really interested in this, how poker sites actually stop players from using for example statistical packages to aid them. I mean surely this is cheating no? How do they exactly detect this? Another thing, what exactly would stop a cheating player from re-writing some software that connects through the same ports as the client software and ezxploiting the server some how? is there like encryption and stuff in place? Thanks if anyone can help Sco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Re: How do poker sites stop players using software??? I am really interested in this' date=' how poker sites actually stop players from using for example statistical packages to aid them. I mean surely this is cheating no? [/quote'] Hi Sco - I don't think it is classed as cheating - and some of the Poker sites actually encourage the use of the software - for example Noble Poker are currently running an offer with Calculatem - if you deposit $20 with them, then you get calculatem free for a year. Others encourage it by making it so easy to get at the data - Party Poker for example, "dumps" all the information to a txt file, every step of the way in play - this is easy for software to use "live". Betfair also dump the data to a text file, but this is at the end of every hand, so can't be used as "live" during the hand - but software uses screen scraping technology to overcome this (though this is harder to do I presume than reading txtg files). Others - like Betfred for example produce no txt files or previous hand history, making it far harder to put any data into software (and I'm not aware of any software that works for this site). Simple Calculators like this aren't classed as cheating because they use the same information that is available to the players. In any case, as I understand from others, even if you play to perfect odds, you will lose, because of the psycological element to poker - I find that hard to believe - if we can generate Chess Programs to beat Chess World Champions, surely we can produce poker programs to beat your average muppet!! Where it crosses the line and becomes cheating I believe is where you start "collaborating" - i.e. more than one of you play at the same table, and share your card information - so you have more information than is available to you as an individual player. I also think the poker rooms draw the line at "bots" - i.e. programs that play for you whilst you are not at the table..... Someone recently highlighted some software that does this and I had a look - it seems that the likes of Party Poker scan your machine for known software and regularly take screen dumps to check what you have on screen. The software also claimed that it could get round this by using an equivalent of PC Anywhere (and a second machine). As they are so open about this, I would hope, and trust, that Party Poker are onto them and are tackling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Puntalot Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Re: How do poker sites stop players using software??? They will allow Texas Calculatem, but I do know somebody who had cheat software, which actually doesn't cheat, it just plays it for you, and never bluffs, so it's a load of bollox. The company involved emailed him the next day though, they knew he had been doing it. :eek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philossify Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Re: How do poker sites stop players using software??? Poker sites (as far as I'm aware) don't stop people using software as an aid - there are numerous packages out there that will attach to running games and record stats and give you some hints on what to do. Most of these I suspect (though don't know for certain) do their job by hacking into the eventual windoze screen update events .... rather than hijacking the client/server connection. I think (although I haven't looked at in in detail) that the only info you get transmitted down to the client program on your machine from the server is in the first instance your cards. Later comes betting updates and exposed cards at all-in or show time, so there is (I assume) no way you can cheat and see the other players cards (wish there was I'd be driving a better car by now :D ) as they are winding their way down a seperate socket somewhere in the ether. I suppose theoretically you might just be able to hijack or tap into someone elses socket although its in the realm of "Mission Impossible" and I suspect theres even some simplistic encryption on the session so that only your machine and the server can exchange messages. I've sometimes wondered (devious so and so that I am) if it might be possible to have a "spike" program that you could use when you get in real trouble - something that would disconnect the other player(s) at just the right time - but again I think we are in "mission Impossible" scenario there. Biggest cheating (and I don't think theres much of that) is where you have multiple players in the same game in the same physical location or talking to each other on the phone - amazing the extra percentage advantage you get knowing just a few more cards ...... There are attempts around to set up some standard protocols for poker tranmissions - but one reason against having such hard wired standards is that it would make it too easy for setting up robot players..... think there may even be some robot players already participating ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Re: How do poker sites stop players using software??? There are without a doubt bots already playing, there are a few commercially available. Fortunately they're crap, they about break even on micro limits and require serious user tweaking to perform above that. People using them also run the risk of having their entire bankroll confiscated. That said, there are bots in existence like Vexbot (some university project, recently played heads up with Phil Laak, did lose that one but is very good) that seriously kick ass, so who knows what private programs people are using successfully. The two major commercial efforts are these, they're both not that great, but the teamplay function on winholdem is frightening: www.winholdem.com www.pokibot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Puntalot Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Re: How do poker sites stop players using software??? Winholdem is the one I was talking about, go and use it on Party Poker and watch your email inbox the following day. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Puntalot Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Re: How do poker sites stop players using software??? Actually I think it's the Pokibot one. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Re: How do poker sites stop players using software??? Sorry that first link is wrong, should be: www.winholdem.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Puntalot Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Re: How do poker sites stop players using software??? Yeah, they are both banned guesswest, Party Poker will give you a warning, then they reserve the right to keep all your funds. :eek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Re: How do poker sites stop players using software??? Yes I know they're banned on all sites, and Party/Paradise both actively monitor for them. There's various ways around that tho, with shell software/2 computer setups. Party will actually suspend your account if they see the word 'winholdem' anywhere on your screen, I first became famililar with the program because someone was writing about it on 2+2 forum, and a user got suspended because PP screenshotted him reading the thread! Ultimately it'll always be possible to avoid detection with software like that, you can network any software so one computer is blind to the other. The saving grace at the moment is that these programs are crap, the few people who do make money from them have had to do serious tweaking to the software, and tweaking as in the actual code, which is a skill beyond most people. Even then their profit is slim. You can only assume tho, that these programs will improve, it'll be interesting to see what kind of threat they pose to online poker when that happens. There's a forum over on winholdem, makes interesting reading. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipstar Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Re: How do poker sites stop players using software??? http://www.spyonpoker.com/viewprod.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Re: How do poker sites stop players using software??? Am almost 100% sure that product is bogus. Anyone who'd use it deserves to lose their money tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Re: How do poker sites stop players using software??? Am almost 100% sure that product is bogus. Anyone who'd use it deserves to lose their money tho lol.....definitely!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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