Why do you read the systems and strategy pages?

[mr onemore]

Any comments here?? I'm asking as I'm quite intrigued at the amount of traffic in this forum, the types of 'systems' fellow punters post to/view the most, the amount of threads which die after a very short time, and whether there are that many ever interested in the serious and valued advice that I've seen many of the 'older hands' give in this forum. I've been a regular here for over a year, but only fairly recently started posting. I'm afraid to say that most of the ideas presented here are seriously flawed, from a theoretical point of view - and reasoned mathematical arguments, well thought out, are often given but sometimes ignored. It's no big deal to me - but I'm sure that the same types of arguments are brought out time after time after time. The amount of systems posted where simple backtesting can be done, but isn't, is simply breath-taking. And where testing has to be live, as can be the case, the samples presented in this forum fall well short of the amount required to bring any significance into the findings. I've utmost respect for any contributor here who sticks at their system for a good while (ONEDUNME - superb commitment there) - and of course everyone has the right to prove the rest wrong. But honestly, a little more rigour in the processes involved would benefit not only the quality of this forum - but is also in the interests of the originator of the system. If advice was taken on board, better ideas would be forthcoming. Before anyone gets personal and launches into me here (I'm not talking about all the systems presented here!)- I am a mathematician, who has spent more than enough time researching the field, and I'm posting this in order to benefit the forum. Personal comment - I think it was better when there was a separate 'Systems' page and a 'Glory Hunt' page.:(

[Forever_Ever_Delayed]

Re: Why do you read the systems and strategy pages? Good point mronemore, I think people are often after a) a fast easy route to lots of profit or b) to show everyone else they know what they are doing, and proove themselves as a tipster think this is why we sometimes get systems on here that just wont make a profit, and like you say can be easily shown not to make a profit very simply. I suppose in a way everyone's entitled to their chance to fail or succeed, after all we only learn from our mistakes, but sometimes you would think that common sense would prevail

[gazabroad]

Re: Why do you read the systems and strategy pages? I have to say that I´ve been chasing that ever elusive "perfect system" ever since I was old enough to know what gambling was all about. I take an interest in what is being posted, touted around in newspapers etc just to see the latest efforts. It could be argued that by having the threads that you see disappear as quickly as they start is no bad thing. The reason being, that some of the more dafter ideas fall flat very quickly and therefore can be discounted just as quickly.This can only be of benefit to those that dont backcheck, or worse, actually waste money on unproven theories. Have to say that at the same time it is fun sometimes to follow a long running system from the start and just try to work out if it´s possible to fine tune it and improve results. Only today I backchecked (for fun, no offence) the E/W Lucky 15 system that Ralphie has, working with E/W singles as opposed to the 30 bets. I was surprised to note that the returns were good in both instances, with the original system coming out slightly on top. I think the point is ; If you dont try then you wont gain, It is by the failure of others that we all may learn, and possibly come out on top one day.

[DC]

Re: Why do you read the systems and strategy pages? Gaza, I'm entiled to agree. I too have always been looking for that amazing system that will provide a secondary income. However, I have yet to stumble across it. However, I am open to other people's systems and ideas and I'm always keen to head for this section in the hope that I will discover, through others, a new idea. Some of the systems in here are great and others, as Mr Onemore states are not worth reading. Personally I like to share my knowledge/system ideas with others knowing that there are others on here who also try their hardest to help me. I'm not on here to prove a point or boost my ego by any means, it's just nice to keep a thread going and see how long the system can survive. Some people may not have the time or software/means to backtest their systems so where the mathmaticians on this board can help, maybe they should speak up and point out to the others where exactly the systems may fail. All the best Danny

[gazabroad]

Re: Why do you read the systems and strategy pages? Thanx Danny, I´ve not long been here on the P.L. and in the short time that I have, the one thing that I´ve enjoyed and taken note of, are the systems in this section. Have followed some of yours with interest. One thing I have learnt over the years is that nobody ever wins long term by betting in combination bets. They may have the odd one up (I once had a 12 team accy for a tenner return about 2000 pound) but the point is that was about 20 years ago and I can still brag about it! truth is in the long run the bookies will love you for it, and the poorhouse will end up making up a bed for you. I think I have got to the point where I dont think that it is a system necessarily that will prove to be the winning formula, rather the strategy. Personally, I bet only on football nowadays, and limit my bets to two teams in 2 singles and a double. Furthermore I look for value and cover myself as much as possible.E.G. If I pick 2 teams, both at 6/4 then I stake 40 win on each and 20 double. Good return if I´m right, and money back if only half right. Maybe if I can come up with a system to incorporate with my strategy then I might be onto a winner. There again, maybe between us all we can get there, after all thats what this is really all about. Cheers Gary

[brookes]

Re: Why do you read the systems and strategy pages? this is the first section I go to mr , because it is the most intriging [hope spelling correct teach ] one , I am same as Gaza and chasing that elusive system, but due to reading the comments on PL realise there is no such system! .I am one of those who do x trebles and yankees hoping for the big one , but I have come to my senses and if you go big you must go for the singles [ I believe that you abhor the multiple bets ] ,It is here that I see system "similar " to ones I have considered and have been correctly put off thanks to knowledgeable comment by many helpful members.I believe we are all here to learn and eventually defeat the bookies [ that's why I think the bookies keep a close eye on this forum ]. i have recieved help and comments from members and am extremely thankful cheers and thanks for every comment and help

[Datapunter]

Re: Why do you read the systems and strategy pages?

Why do you read the systems and strategy pages?

Like most i'm looking for the goose that lays the golden eggs. I know i doesn't exist but still i'm looking :\ , the search itself, not the result, has become something i enjoy doing. Some people collect stamps or climb mountains, i like looking at betting systems.

[Datapunter]

Re: Why do you read the systems and strategy pages? You raise some good points and questions Mr Onemore, I'd like to reply to some by sharing my view as moderator of this Forum. I started sportsbetting about 3 years ago with various degree of success, at one point i had this idea about doubling my stakes :loon . Seemed like a brilliant idea to me at the time, i felt pretty good about myself :dude . Then i started reading some of the threads here and found that my invention had a name : Martingale . That soon brought me back to reality, and probably saved me a whole lot of money. If i make the balance i have to admit that i have not yet recovered from my losses in those early days but the past 6 months i have been making a consistent profit. My point here is that i had to learn step by step over an extended period of time. For me Punters Lounge is a place where people can share ideas and thoughts and learn from each other. It should be a place that is inviting for newcomers and at the same time 'guides' people towards structured, disciplined, profitable betting. Systems and strategies based on sound theoretical ideas and mathematical arguments. Sure many system threads start and stop after only a handfull of bets, that is part of the learning process. The more active people are the more they learn and the more others learn. True many people will never learn, no matter howmuch experianced advice you throw at them. But i for one am very gratefull to those 'old hands' that have and continue to reply to my threads and questions. All you can do is share your knowledge and continue to do so, up to the reader to pick it up. Believe me many do pick it up. :ok You raise the point that more rigour in the process would benefit all. I actually share this point, but then again, i've been around for a while. When i think back to my early days what helped me most was reading sound arguments. Posted in a way that it was up to me to what to do with the info. Knowledge has to be aquired, it cannot be 'forced' onto someone, that actually has the reverse effect. When i created the Guidelines for posting Systems we had a discussion on this and i think we found a good balance. Lately i've not been to rigourous in asking people to post according the guidelines and it has lead to more 'lose gun' threads. I agree simply posting as indicated by the guidelines will bring more rigour and discipline and will in the end benefit all. Time to give a few gentle nudges here and there ;) . But always, whatever else, people should have the opportunity to post anyway they like. Some are rigourous, some can't be bothered, PL has room for all. I haven't been too active lately, busy with all sort of stuff. Started creating a website of my own and when that gets going i'll be posting a plenty again. But don't wait for me, quite a few newcomers lately that appear to be quite knowledgable, don't hold back guys. Its a community forum, dig right in. :ok :cheers

[mr onemore]

Re: Why do you read the systems and strategy pages? Thanks for the replies - very encouraging actually. I too must admit that I enjoy the search for some kind of system that might one day bring in some regular cash. I suppose it is like a bit of a hobby too. By the way - I'm absolutely certain that it can be done:) , differing from one viewpoint above. I'd never want to force my opinions onto anybody here - like was said - at the end of the day everyone only learns more effieciently through personal experience - 'lecturing' is a very poor educational style...but of course advice given and understood can really save a lot of time and effort for those who want to move along a bit here - I know I've taken on a lot through discussions with others on PL and elsewhere. Actually, I think you solidify your own knowledge and opinions when commenting on someone elses ideas too - it can be a good two-way process. I think I'll post up a bit of research I rejected a while back - show what I was thinking and why I didn't pursue it in the end, although for some it might look quite promising - and you never know it mark spark a few more good ideas to restore it...

[swooperman]

Re: Why do you read the systems and strategy pages? I think this is a great forum for getting the old grey matter working. I dont post in here as much as the other forums but I always try to have a look to keep on the lookout, if you see what I mean. Were all trying to beat the bookies, and one persons idea, even if flawed, can inspire somebody else & get a thought-process going, trigger something if you like. Long may that continue....