How many outs do you have.....

[AndyBee]

What is an out ..... whats your definition of poker outs hi all im having an arguement with a poker friend of mine we were both doing a poker quiz and we have both come up with diferent answers for different reasasons as i seem to have a different view of what a poker out is the question You are holding 7S 8S and the board reads 10S KD 6S How many outs do you have to make either a straight or a flush? My view with 2 streets to come my opinion the answer is 21 ...... to hit a straight or flush ....... 9 outs to hit a flush 3 x 9s 3 x Js to hit a hi straight so thats 15 and 3x5s 3x4s to hit a low straight total 21 outs. I know that hitting the low straight is not great but if i was playing limit i would still call against a guy who i put on a pair of kings .... so im still counting the 5s and 4s as OUTs. His view The correct answer is 12. There are three outs for the straight, eight outs for the flush and one out for the straight flush. Outs are only calculated for the next street, so runner straight draws are not included. "Outs are only calculated for the next street" I cant find this listed under the deffenition of outs i have looked in a few books ..... SuperSystemII :- "The number of cards that will improve an inferior hand to a possible winner." The Theory of poker :- "Cards which will improve your hand. Also, ways of improving your hand. The term is used particularly in referance to a hand that needs to improve to become the best hand" so in my example..... im holding ..... and the villian has Hero 7S 8S Villian KH 8H Flop 10S KD 6S i now put this into a poker odds calculator Hero 46.51% Villian 53.49% FAV but i assume that the calculator is factoring in that i may hit runner runner low ...... so making the 4s an 5s as possible outs..... Im not saying i would call an all in looking for runner runner. I know some may say the question is a bit vague ...... if it had said "How many outs do you have to make either a straight or a flush on 4th street?" But has it did not i only have the option to consider my outs over 2 streets. So once again how would you answer the question? the question You are holding 7S 8S and the board reads 10S KD 6S How many outs do you have to make either a straight or a flush? 12 21 other? Andy Bee

[Dave488]

Re: How many outs do you have..... Your friend is correct, the answer is definately 12, with 2 cards to come you have 4% per out giving you a 48% chance to hit one of your outs.:ok

[atkinsonj]

Re: How many outs do you have..... Your mate is right it what he is saying you only work out the out for the next street then you re-calcutale your outs but is the answer not 11? The rest of the Spades to make a flush which is 9 The rest of the 9's to make a straight but one is already counted (9S) 2 9+2=11 :unsure

[RuleBritannia]

Re: How many outs do you have..... 9d 9h 9c = 3 9's left to make straight.

[atkinsonj]

Re: How many outs do you have.....

9d 9h 9c = 3 9's left to make straight.

I know that but the 9 has been counted in the flush.

[Nade]

Re: How many outs do you have..... 2s 3s 4s 5s 9s Js Qs Ks As = 9 9d 9h 9c = 3

[atkinsonj]

Re: How many outs do you have.....

2s 3s 4s 5s 9s Js Qs Ks As = 9 9d 9h 9c = 3

Looking at it like that i see it is right but i dont know what i was thinking thank for clearing that up. :ok

[averick]

Re: How many outs do you have..... Yea like all the rest have said you have 12 outs to improving by the next street. If a non-spade 4 or 5 comes on the turn then your number of outs would have increased although your chance of winning the hand would have decreased slightly as there is only 1 street remaining. 990 games 0.091 secs 10,879 games/sec Board: Ts Kd 6s Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 46.515% 46.06% 00.45% 456 4.50 { 8s7s } Hand 1: 53.485% 53.03% 00.45% 525 4.50 { Kh8h } --- 44 games 0.005 secs 8,800 games/sec Board: Ts Kd 6s 5h Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 34.091% 34.09% 00.00% 15 0.00 { 8s7s } Hand 1: 65.909% 65.91% 00.00% 29 0.00 { Kh8h }

[ashj22]

Re: How many outs do you have..... 12 for sure