Some dodgy Omaha hands.

[Dodger]

Three hands from last night...comments welcome! The first Hi/Lo the others just Omaha. Red would be my thoughts at the time...Blue are later thoughts. ============================================ 10.00/20.00 Omaha Hi/Lo (PL) - 21 April 2009 19:23:27 €200 GTD Omaha Hi/Lo (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: WillumE86 (990.00) Seat 2: fraflogar (1360.00) Seat 3: PLstarshine (1140.00) Seat 4: oleg1972 (620.00) Seat 5: Tyndaris (1470.00) Seat 6: Drousy (1480.00) Seat 7: "BAHIANA" (2220.00) Seat 8: Unknown (0.00) Seat 9: remior11 (1480.00) Seat 10: BillBonko (1620.00) Drousy post SB 10.00 "BAHIANA" post BB 20.00 ** Deal ** Drousy [6d, Kc, 9d, 8c] *** Bet Round 1 *** remior11 Call 20.00 BillBonko Call 20.00 WillumE86 Fold fraflogar Fold PLstarshine Fold oleg1972 Call 20.00 Tyndaris Call 20.00 Drousy Call 20.00 "BAHIANA" Raise to 140.00 remior11 Call 140.00 BillBonko Call 140.00 oleg1972 Call 140.00 Tyndaris Call 140.00 Drousy Call 140.00 Fck it have to call with so many in! *** Flop(Board): *** : [Kd, 7c, 10c] mmm...multi draws! *** Bet Round 2 *** Drousy Check "BAHIANA" Bet 840.00 remior11 Fold BillBonko Fold oleg1972 Fold Tyndaris Fold Drousy All-in 1340.00 "BAHIANA" Call 1340.00 With a spoiler low being unlikely and holding a flush draw and several straight draws I got the cash in and was happy with this but, as the flush was not the nuts maybe this was an overly risky move? Nevertheless Card player tells me I got my cash in as 75% favourite *** Turn(Board): *** : [Kd, 7c, 10c, 5d] *** River(Board): *** : [Kd, 7c, 10c, 5d, 7h] *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 3520.00 WillumE86 Fold Win: 0.00 fraflogar Fold Win: 0.00 PLstarshine Fold Win: 0.00 oleg1972 Fold Win: 0.00 Tyndaris Fold Win: 0.00 Drousy [6d, Kc, 9d, 8c] Two pair kings and sevens Win: 0.00 "BAHIANA" [8h, As, Ac, 5h] Two pair aces and sevens Win: 3520.00 remior11 Fold Win: 0.00 ================================================= Tip is Ooblio ! ***** Hand 1562699717 ***** 10.00/20.00 Omaha (PL) - 21 April 2009 20:29:24 €200 GTD Omaha Hi (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: Unknown (0.00) Seat 2: Keenie777 (1320.00) Seat 10: Drousy (1410.00) Seat 3: Perfect (4410.00) Seat 4: PLstrider (1460.00) Seat 5: kali133 (3320.00) Seat 6: mii911 (1390.00) Seat 7: ivanigs (700.00) Seat 8: tip2w1n (2580.00) Seat 9: siguenza 1 (1540.00) Drousy post SB 10.00 Keenie777 post BB 20.00 ** Deal ** Drousy [As, Jh, Kh, Ac] ooooo juicy! *** Bet Round 1 *** Perfect Fold PLstrider Fold kali133 Fold mii911 Call 20.00 ivanigs Fold tip2w1n Call 20.00 siguenza 1 Call 20.00 Drousy Raise to 120.00 Keenie777 Fold mii911 Fold tip2w1n Call 120.00 siguenza 1 Call 120.00 *** Flop(Board): *** : [9h, Qc, 8h] shit! *** Bet Round 2 *** Drousy Bet 300.00 tip2w1n Call 300.00 Damn...he's got the straight or nut flush draw! siguenza 1 Fold *** Turn(Board): *** : [9h, Qc, 8h, 2c] *** Bet Round 3 *** Drousy Check tip2w1n Bet 1000.00 This is where my donkey move (???) comes in. I was fairly well convinced now that he has the straight and I was betting for a flush or a jammy straight. Unsure what made me call here...blinded by AA (unlikely)...size of the bet (unsure) or just gambling (probably). Card player gives me 30% tops if he already has the straight so maybe the pot odds were not too far off!...but if he also has the nut flush draw I'm stuffed! Drousy All-in 990.00 *** River(Board): *** : [9h, Qc, 8h, 2c, 6s] *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 2980.00 Keenie777 Fold Win: 0.00 Drousy [As, Jh, Kh, Ac] Pair of aces Win: 2980.00 Perfect Fold Win: 0.00 PLstrider Fold Win: 0.00 kali133 Fold Win: 0.00 mii911 Fold Win: 0.00 ivanigs Fold Win: 0.00 tip2w1n [Kd, 10s, Kc, Qh] Pair of kings Win: 0.00 Phew! =============================================== ***** Hand 1562909254 ***** 300.00/600.00 Omaha (PL) - 21 April 2009 22:08:49 €200 GTD Omaha Hi (Real /Tournament ) Seat 7: ivanigs (22685.00) Seat 10: Drousy (7215.00) Drousy post SB 300.00 ivanigs post BB 600.00 ** Deal ** Drousy [Ac, Ks, 6c, 7c] *** Bet Round 1 *** Drousy Raise to 1200.00 ivanigs Call 1200.00 *** Flop(Board): *** : [Jc, 10d, 8c] nut flush and couple of straight draws...good enough for me! *** Bet Round 2 *** ivanigs Bet 600.00 Drousy Raise to 4300.00 ivanigs Call 4300.00 *** Turn(Board): *** : [Jc, 10d, 8c, 2s] *** Bet Round 3 *** ivanigs Bet 600.00 Drousy All-in 1715.00 ivanigs Call 1715.00 *** River(Board): *** : [Jc, 10d, 8c, 2s, 3d] *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 14530.00 ivanigs [3c, 4h, As, 5c] Pair of threes 8,4,3,2,A Win: 14530.00 Drousy [Ac, Ks, 6c, 7c] Highest card ace 8,6,3,2,A Win: 0.00 My only question here would be...with him holding only a poor flush draw...why was he calling a pot-raise on the flop? Not complaining...just a little bemused...I think this was a much worse call than my one against Ooblio! ============================================== Jesus...I do love these kinky games!!! :ok

[happyhornet]

Re: Some dodgy Omaha hands. I'm no expert Dodge, but I think with the low unlikely in the HiLo example your re-raise is reasonable. Unless he has the nut flush draw you have outs against any hand. In Example two, I think you and Ooblio did what most NLHE players do (me included) at PLO and bet over-pairs very (and possibly too-) strongly. I have run into straights etc cos I fell in love with my set etc. In Example three, you played it fine IMO, and his call of your flop raise is odd other than you are a shorter stack and he thought you were raising with nothing:unsure

[Woodie]

Re: Some dodgy Omaha hands. 2nd hand I would be check/folding. 3 hand is basic for heads up 1st hand I don't play hi/low so can't comment. Doesn't matter you won here on hand 2 big percentage of time you are drawing thinly dead if you paying to catch your flush it's not worth it case your not going to get payed when you do cacth it and you only put in 120 pre wait for better spots.

[billy the punter]

Re: Some dodgy Omaha hands.

10.00/20.00 Omaha Hi/Lo (PL) - 21 April 2009 19:23:27 €200 GTD Omaha Hi/Lo (Real /Tournament ) Seat 1: WillumE86 (990.00) Seat 2: fraflogar (1360.00) Seat 3: PLstarshine (1140.00) Seat 4: oleg1972 (620.00) Seat 5: Tyndaris (1470.00) Seat 6: Drousy (1480.00) Seat 7: "BAHIANA" (2220.00) Seat 8: Unknown (0.00) Seat 9: remior11 (1480.00) Seat 10: BillBonko (1620.00) Drousy post SB 10.00 "BAHIANA" post BB 20.00 ** Deal ** Drousy [6d, Kc, 9d, 8c] *** Bet Round 1 *** remior11 Call 20.00 BillBonko Call 20.00 WillumE86 Fold fraflogar Fold PLstarshine Fold oleg1972 Call 20.00 Tyndaris Call 20.00 Drousy Call 20.00 "BAHIANA" Raise to 140.00 remior11 Call 140.00 BillBonko Call 140.00 oleg1972 Call 140.00 Tyndaris Call 140.00 Drousy Call 140.00 Fck it have to call with so many in! *** Flop(Board): *** : [Kd, 7c, 10c] mmm...multi draws! *** Bet Round 2 *** Drousy Check "BAHIANA" Bet 840.00 remior11 Fold BillBonko Fold oleg1972 Fold Tyndaris Fold Drousy All-in 1340.00 "BAHIANA" Call 1340.00 With a spoiler low being unlikely and holding a flush draw and several straight draws I got the cash in and was happy with this but, as the flush was not the nuts maybe this was an overly risky move? Nevertheless Card player tells me I got my cash in as 75% favourite *** Turn(Board): *** : [Kd, 7c, 10c, 5d] *** River(Board): *** : [Kd, 7c, 10c, 5d, 7h] *** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 3520.00 WillumE86 Fold Win: 0.00 fraflogar Fold Win: 0.00 PLstarshine Fold Win: 0.00 oleg1972 Fold Win: 0.00 Tyndaris Fold Win: 0.00 Drousy [6d, Kc, 9d, 8c] Two pair kings and sevens Win: 0.00 "BAHIANA" [8h, As, Ac, 5h] Two pair aces and sevens Win: 3520.00 remior11 Fold Win: 0.00 =================================================

If I'm honest mate, neither of you played this too well. I don't like calling (in tourns) with your sort of hand preflop, eg less than nut flush cards and middle straight cards, because of the trouble they can get you in. Even more so in multi-way pots as there are bound to be better draws out there even out there. Also middle cards in hi/lo are garbage, if you make a nut straight then there MUST be a low out there, you have no real low so you're only playing for half the pot IF you hit. However, forget the preflop call. I think his bet out with just aces is shocking. That said, I would be folding your hand, I wouldn't be at all excited by that flop. I think your reraise was far too risky. You have no back door low, you could be drawing dead on the flush and with your straight draws (more so). Ignore the fact your were 75% fav in THIS coup. Most of the time you will be drawing wafer thin with your hand. In a cash game, if you're feeling lucky (as it was HU) then it's not crazy (although still not great) but in a tourn I think you should be folding. :ok

[Dodger]

Re: Some dodgy Omaha hands. Thanks for the replies. :ok I think I was being particularly aggressive last night and realise that some of my plays were pretty dangerous. Both the first two were early doors and maybe I play a lot looser very early in these Omaha games...would definitely have played them differently in the later stages. But if you are going to take these kinds of risks then early is the time to do it as you are more likely to get calls from inferior hands. Play like this in the late stages and your goose will be well and truly cooked. :eyes

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Some dodgy Omaha hands. i do sort of agree with billy about the call preflop on hand 1 if it was a smaller pot with less players. with that many callers theres a good chance of 2 people with a2 that may well get sucked in if you do hit your nut straight,admittedly your not gonna scoop but you will get a nice return on your money. also with that many callers i'd guess a lot of hi/low cards will be gone so your mid cards are more likely to hit. but i dont agree with the way you played it post flop tho,your drawing to too many possible losing straights and only a second nut flush with no real low out either. if you could keep it to a cheap multiway pot then it's okay,with his pot sized bet you can't so you gotta fold. hand 2 you both played pretty badly i think:unsure i would probably have flat called preflop even tho you had a very nice hand,position is everything in omaha and you sort of give away the strength of your hand by the raise(unless you regularly raise from the sb that is),i'd rather be a bit more cagey and hopefully hit a monster. the flop could have been worse but also a lot better.your bet is okay with straight/flush draws and possibly protecting the aces,ooblio should have folded then really as he's in a bad spot against most hands that you bet that hard from the sb with that flop. hand 3 you play okay and i'd say that was a pretty bad call from him:loonyou just got a little unlucky:\

[Dodger]

Re: Some dodgy Omaha hands. As in the thread title...dodgy hands indead :loon However...in the Omaha pot limit at the APT...the lad who won it played every half chance ultra aggressively and I often think if you restrict yourself to the nut draws only all the time then you'll soon become too predictable and struggle to make any profits. I still don't think the play in the first one was that bad as his raise stank of AA...the most overplayed of all hands in Omaha. Often if a player raises in this fashion I'll call with any 2 pair...that play wins many a hand in these small games. The second one was terrible play on both sides. The third was just typical heads up. :ok