BAM Posted June 24, 2008 Author Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle Level 6 blinds are 150/300 with a 25 running Ante, rising every hour. You have been on the same table for 6 hours people have come and gone and the play has been generally LAG. There are 3 recognised pro's at your table but you have been holding your own and you have around 13K from your original 10K and the average is about 14K. Your own image is probably LAG as you have been raising with a lot of hands mainly concentrating on two unknown players on the table who have been playing relatively tight. You are UTG+1 with KK and you raise it 900 to go. Folds round to the cut off (one of the tight players) who min reraises - button, SB, BB fold You to go - you raise to 3600 he calls. Flop comes Q 9 6 two spades you stick in 4000 he calls. Turn comes a red 10 you think for a while and check he quickly checks River comes 4 of spades you check he puts you all in. Do you call or fold? What hand do you put him on? Why did you check the turn? First of all I hated the way I played this hand from the start and it has vexed me for weeks now :@ When I got the min re-raise (and off a tight player) I instantly thought he had Aces. I wish I had put in a bigger re-raise but I didn't want the pot to get out of control. When he just flat called I then thought he could have QQ JJ TT, he was trying to define his hand with the raise and I showed some more strength. When the Q flopped I was wary but I still wanted to put in a strong bet and for me the flat call on the flop signals strength. I was still getting the feeling I was ahead and I decided I wanted him to take the lead so if the turn was a blank I was going to check raise all in...ffs he checked behind. I then decided to shove all in on a blank river but for some reason when I saw the 3rd spade I completely lost where I was in the hand I couldn't put him on anything from his betting, so I checked and he shoved. I then started to imagine like a few of you have he had AQ but they were spades, I then thought he had AK fishing for a draw and he had fired a bluff because he had missed, then I decided he had AK spades. I had gone out of three of these GUK's overplaying QQ twice and a 1 outer against my AA and each time I had kicked myself as I still had a lot of play left. So I counted how many chips I had left and worked out I had still had around 15 BB's and a tournament life and using simple game theory I folded!! I showed the KK to a rapture of good fold and the guy had AJ no spades :( This is an example of how you can be comfortable in a deep stack, slow blind, 2 day tourney and in one hand you are ruined. There are lots of raise and reraise in these tourneys and a high M can soon be reduced to the brown zone. It didn't help with me being so indecisive and not putting him on a hand. Your Hellmuths, Thews, Devifishes of this world play excellent smallball poker in these type of tourney and never seem to risk their life. It goes back to glceuds thread about how to approach this type of tourney as we are too use to playing 1500 chips 10 min blinds, I still haven't got a clue by the way :eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlunB Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle Wow. I think that's almost the kind of hand where the guy's play is so bizzare you should discount it from analysing if you made the correct play. I'm going to PM you Jeff's full response - but in summary it is as follows. Pre-flop and flop. Fine. Turn. You have to bet here as the board is too draw heavy. River. Make a blocking bet. But as played make a crying call. His approach seems to be ignore the fact it is a deep-stacked tourney. You have most of your stack in the middle already so you should go all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle I dont get these pro's at all. He's happy with a 1/2 pot sized bet on that flop? screaming weakenss. As for the blocking bet on the river!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Easy to say the turn was a cock up but if it had worked it would have been a great play by a poker maestro. Empty that fellows pkts next time you see him WASP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlunB Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle Im just the messenger, but I don't really follow either of those points properly. Why is betting 1/2 pot a bad thing here bearing in mind the stacks. In fact what's wrong with a 1/2 pot continuation bet full stop? And what's wrong with a blocking bet on the river. You have 5.4k left. Any bet basically negates a bluff. Also turn play is risky against a guy who seemed a bit passive. But, like I say am just the messenger. BTW was the guy floating on the flop and then checking when he picked up the open ender on the turn?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle 1/2 the pot your giving him 3/1 to see the next card + you look very weak. Check the turn you look even weaker and thats when the other guy should have shoved and you'd have made your check raise. Perhaps WASP should have bet the turn but if he had bet the flop properly the hand would allready have been over. Blocking bet on the river wont get called but the check might induce the bluff. Any way I'm just disagreeing to prove I dont just pick on Nade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlunB Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle Lol. Is it long enough ago I can point out the wonderful irony of your signature in that thread? OK so how much would you bet here? Bear in mind Bri has 9.4k and the pot is 7.9k as far as I can make out. There is no mention of the oppo's stack so let's assume 13k is the effective stack size. FWIW I think 1/2 pot here is fine. But am interested in other views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle He's got to bet the lot on the flop, theres no Ace and thats as good as it gets for pkt kings. Its only a pot size bet but because ot the preflop play he only has one bet left. Not sure I get you about the signature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlunB Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle Oh, OK I get you. I thought you meant he should bet 2/3 or the full pot. Shoving is like a different decision if you get me. And just to check what you are saying - is that a value shove? Or are you turning your hand into a bluff? Signature? Well wasn't Nade talking about taking 2/1 on an even money shot? No offence intended btw Nade! I always enjoy reading your posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle Its not really shoving the pots 8 k and hes's not got much more than that. Must have missed Nades thread there, maybe thats why he thinks I'm picking on him. The sig doesnt apply to poker, just roullete,craps and other things gamblers do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlunB Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle The hand in that thread he was basically getting 2/1 on a call where he was even money. Nevermind. Back to the thread. Are you shoving for value or are you turning your hand into a bluff? As you may have missed that on my edit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle Shoving purely and simply to end the hand there and then. Even the half sized pot bet leaves you little room to force a drawing hand out on the turn with a bit over 5k into what would be a 20k pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle Oh hang on is Jeff kimber betting half the pot to keep the other guy in the pot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlunB Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle I didn't do the interview so I've no idea. Sorry. My point was if you're not realistically expecting to get called by a worse hand when you shove you may as well have 72os.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Re: Live hand from the GUK Newcastle Just got August's edition of IP and WASP's hand is in there pg48 scenario 2. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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