morlspin Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 PokerStars Game #17203797187: Tournament #86191292, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (800/1600) - 2008/05/04 - 18:04:18 (ET) Table '86191292 1718' 9-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 1: Meuci (65680 in chips) Seat 2: MaxiPadTDI (78577 in chips) Seat 3: kevinokocha2 (12855 in chips) Seat 4: tycgoer (26916 in chips) Seat 5: morlspin (16895 in chips) Seat 6: cardsfan000 (57164 in chips) Seat 7: MTeasy..eddy (47367 in chips) Seat 8: jarbeans (20390 in chips) Seat 9: darou (51824 in chips) Meuci: posts the ante 150 MaxiPadTDI: posts the ante 150 kevinokocha2: posts the ante 150 tycgoer: posts the ante 150 morlspin: posts the ante 150 cardsfan000: posts the ante 150 MTeasy..eddy: posts the ante 150 jarbeans: posts the ante 150 darou: posts the ante 150 tycgoer: posts small blind 800 morlspin: posts big blind 1600 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to morlspin [Qh Qc] cardsfan000: calls 1600 MTeasy..eddy: folds jarbeans: raises 18640 to 20240 and is all-in darou: folds Meuci: calls 20240 MaxiPadTDI: folds kevinokocha2: folds tycgoer: folds morlspin: folds cardsfan000: folds morlspin said, "qq" *** FLOP *** [6h 5s 6c] *** TURN *** [6h 5s 6c] [Jh] *** RIVER *** [6h 5s 6c Jh] [8h] *** SHOW DOWN *** jarbeans: shows [Ad Th] (a pair of Sixes) Meuci: shows [Ac Kh] (a pair of Sixes - Ace+King kicker) Meuci collected 45830 from pot robwhufc is connected *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 45830 | Rake 0 Board [6h 5s 6c Jh 8h] Seat 1: Meuci showed [Ac Kh] and won (45830) with a pair of Sixes Seat 2: MaxiPadTDI folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: kevinokocha2 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: tycgoer (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 5: morlspin (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 6: cardsfan000 folded before Flop Seat 7: MTeasy..eddy folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: jarbeans showed [Ad Th] and lost with a pair of Sixes Seat 9: darou folded before Flop (didn't bet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds PokerStars Game #17204338836: Tournament #86191292, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (2000/4000) - 2008/05/04 - 18:27:41 (ET) Table '86191292 1718' 9-max Seat #5 is the button Seat 1: Meuci (105770 in chips) Seat 2: MaxiPadTDI (128877 in chips) Seat 3: kevinokocha2 (25710 in chips) Seat 4: tycgoer (25332 in chips) Seat 5: morlspin (4695 in chips) Seat 6: cardsfan000 (12364 in chips) Seat 7: MTeasy..eddy (42967 in chips) Seat 8: robwhufc (51708 in chips) Seat 9: darou (39624 in chips) Meuci: posts the ante 400 MaxiPadTDI: posts the ante 400 kevinokocha2: posts the ante 400 tycgoer: posts the ante 400 morlspin: posts the ante 400 cardsfan000: posts the ante 400 MTeasy..eddy: posts the ante 400 robwhufc: posts the ante 400 darou: posts the ante 400 cardsfan000: posts small blind 2000 MTeasy..eddy: posts big blind 4000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to morlspin [Th Td] robwhufc: folds darou: folds Meuci: folds MaxiPadTDI: folds kevinokocha2: raises 21310 to 25310 and is all-in tycgoer: folds morlspin has timed out morlspin: folds morlspin is sitting out cardsfan000: folds morlspin has returned MTeasy..eddy: calls 21310 morlspin said, "arrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 10 10 again ffs" *** FLOP *** [2h 3d Ts] *** TURN *** [2h 3d Ts] [As] *** RIVER *** [2h 3d Ts As] [Qd] morlspin said, "arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" *** SHOW DOWN *** MTeasy..eddy: shows [Ks Kh] (a pair of Kings) kevinokocha2: shows [Kd Ah] (a pair of Aces) kevinokocha2 collected 56220 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 56220 | Rake 0 Board [2h 3d Ts As Qd] Seat 1: Meuci folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: MaxiPadTDI folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: kevinokocha2 showed [Kd Ah] and won (56220) with a pair of Aces Seat 4: tycgoer folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: morlspin (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: cardsfan000 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 7: MTeasy..eddy (big blind) showed [Ks Kh] and lost with a pair of Kings Seat 8: robwhufc folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: darou folded before Flop (didn't bet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds 787th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds View is tainted as can see outcome of the hands, but i'd just say that the first one looks like a clear isolation bet and they wouldn't have made that move with AA or KK it's just the caller behind ... I don't know about the maths but with just 10BB left i'd probably call just because of that but not easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds I was gonna put up some thoughts But basically i was playing for the next pay levels, i was short stacked from hand 3 which was this one PokerStars Game #17200100384: Tournament #86191292, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/05/04 - 15:31:45 (ET) Table '86191292 778' 9-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 1: kinglau (3000 in chips) Seat 2: FatalError (2960 in chips) Seat 3: Htodust (2960 in chips) Seat 4: Bobpoker69 (2980 in chips) Seat 5: bennycac3 (3000 in chips) Seat 6: tjo57 (3000 in chips) Seat 7: morlspin (3080 in chips) Seat 8: aykasel (3000 in chips) is sitting out Seat 9: KonaKrazy (3020 in chips) Bobpoker69: posts small blind 10 bennycac3: posts big blind 20 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to morlspin [Ad Kc] tjo57: folds morlspin: raises 60 to 80 aykasel: folds KonaKrazy: calls 80 kinglau: folds FatalError: folds Htodust: raises 300 to 380 Bobpoker69: folds bennycac3: folds morlspin: calls 300 KonaKrazy: raises 2640 to 3020 and is all-in Htodust: calls 2580 and is all-in morlspin: calls 2640 *** FLOP *** [8s 9c 2d] *** TURN *** [8s 9c 2d] [3c] *** RIVER *** [8s 9c 2d 3c] [4h] *** SHOW DOWN *** morlspin: shows [Ad Kc] (high card Ace) KonaKrazy: shows [Ah Kh] (high card Ace) morlspin collected 60 from side pot KonaKrazy collected 60 from side pot Htodust: shows [Qc Qs] (a pair of Queens) Htodust collected 8910 from main pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 9030 Main pot 8910. Side pot 120. | Rake 0 Board [8s 9c 2d 3c 4h] Seat 1: kinglau folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: FatalError folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: Htodust (button) showed [Qc Qs] and won (8910) with a pair of Queens Seat 4: Bobpoker69 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 5: bennycac3 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 6: tjo57 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: morlspin showed [Ad Kc] and won (60) with high card Ace Seat 8: aykasel folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: KonaKrazy showed [Ah Kh] and won (60) with high card Ace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds After that i folded so many premium hands to get back to a good stack and to get through pay levels. Any raises before me or solid players making raises after me id fold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glceud Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds Two auto calls for me, but then you win plenty at the old game so maybe you are right. Even with increases in the money due, you have to play these hands surely? Folded QQ to a raise and reraise once and will never do it again unless at serious bubble time or one of the players has me covered and I allready have a big stack in relation to the field. (for the record they both had A/K and I would have flopped quads and be planning for Vegas now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermonkey1 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds i think i would have called hands 1 and 2 as well:ok. hand 1 the all in is a big overbet ,so i wouldnt be thinking aces or ks and with only a caller i think i would be risking it. there's always a good chance they are blanking each other. hand 2 again the all in in front doesn't look that strong ,with an ok pp i would have to be calling. you only have 10 antes let alone bbs ,you will be all in within 5 hands whatever happens, so a definate call on that one:ok in both cases by trying to get to the next pay band your playing too tight to be able to get really deep in the tourney. i just checked the payout structure and it makes folding an even worse idea. 3375th-1288th=$22.18 1287th-1037th=$44.36 1036th-883rd =$44.37 882nd-559th =$66.55 so the jumps in payout are not really worth thinking about at this point,after all its only getting you at best 2 buy ins each level. i hope you didn't fold those queens at the 1200 people left area ,coz that is tight:lol i know hindsight is a wonderfull thing ,but looking back at those 2 hands with both calls you could be sitting on a 100k plus stack with 750 left :loon the third hand is maybe the other way:unsurewith 2 massive preflop raises in front ak doesnt look so good anymore. l know its usually pretty loose near the start of this, but with that much going in i think i have to credit the other 2 with at least ok pps or ak aq. in that case your only really in decent nick against 2x aq which is unlikely or 2 mid/high pp. its more likely your against 2 really big hands :loonso your either blanked by another ak or dominated by aces or ks .the only good situation here looks like maybe you vs js and qs. with only 300 of your chips in the pot ,its a fold at that point for me:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioArca Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds TT - I think I would have folded but I would have been glad to race with QQ. You're too tight Morls :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wurzel133 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds morlspin folding the q q was hejjuva fold i couldnt do it myself but that is why you win liads more than i ever will. just because it looks bad in hindsight doesnt matter iy was a huge fold and hats off to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avongirl Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds Have to say when I'm short stack (and I speak from lots of experience here ;)) I prefer to wait til I'm first into the pot and I will often fold decent hands to a raise in front of me. Maybe why I'm so often all-in UTG. However, I don't think I could have folded QQ, but I probably would have let the TT go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds QQ I kinda figured one of them for an ace and one of them for a decent pair and either way id be racing, so decided to let em fight themselves and with the numbers dropping like Paris Hiltons knickers, i let it go 10 10 , this was actually harder, as id had it a few hands before and wanted to play, but again decided almost same as above.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds So you put them on something like A9 and 77? (for example) and still folded? What odds were you getting? You were about 58% favourite against those specific hands...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds How about AK and 99...... Just didnt see the point in risking what little chips i had left on a very possible coin flip....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds You're about 45%, but getting decent odds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds My first instinct was that these were both clear calls, but having thought about it, I think it's much closer, and I think it's probably right to call on the QQ hand but fold the 1010 hand (assuming it was close enough to the next prize level that you could be reasonably confident of getting there). Looking at the prize structure, by the time you reach the next prize level about 50% of the prize pool will have been allocated. About 25% of the prize pool goes to the final table. Without looking at the specific hands, the strategic question is to what extent you should pass up good "pot odds" situations to guarantee making the next prize level. It's fairly clear that by folding these hands, you increase your chance of making the next level, at the expense of crippling your chances of making the final table, and probably also of getting any of the more serious prizes short of the final table. Maybe you'd be "giving up" on about the top 40% of the prize pool. You get about an extra $22 for making the next prize level. Of course, by "playing to win", you don't give up altogether on that, but you reduce your chance of getting it. Maybe you cost yourself $11 of that $22 on average, if playing to win will mean you only get there half the time. Since the serious prize money is about 40% of the prize pool, if your chance of getting one of those positions (assuming you play to win) is roughly proportional to your chip stack, then you "own" about $4 (40% of a $10 buy-in) of the serious money for each multiple of a starting stack you have. In the QQ hand, Morls had about 5.5 starting stacks, so he was "entitled to" about $22 of the serious prize money. So he'd probably expect to do better in the long run by going for it. But in the 1010 hand, he only had about 1.5 starting stacks, so he was "entitled to" only about $6 of the serious prize money. So in that case he probably had more to gain on average by hanging on for the next level. Of course, this is just a very rough calculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morlspin Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds What you dont see is me getting back from 0.5 bb to 6bb in 3 hands.....then getting AK and losing vs 10 9 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds What you dont see is me getting back from 0.5 bb to 6bb in 3 hands..... But I'd imagine that's significantly less likely than you just winning the hand in the first place :unsure and then you multiply that stack by 12 and suddenly you're chip leader :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Re: Pokerstars 100K gtd....short stack folds morls is just a greedy fish and desperatly needs the extra 1c!! :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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