Table Talk

[gavham]

After the reactions to "Oultongate" its got me thinking how do you cope with table banter? live and online. I take everything with a pinch of salt and believe me i get plenty of abuse things like " mole i wish you death" "i hope you get cancer" "your mothers a ......( all sorts)" To me these are backward compliments,as you have clearly taken their cash/chips and they are really just annoyed with themselves. I react with " tx, lol, or :)" but it certainly doesnt get to me. Live - for me its an important part of the game, pressing peoples buttons although i must admit i am not one for serious abuse (more of a cheeky banter type guy) That's why i was so surprised with some of the reactions. whats your views on table talk, banter, abuse?

[teaulc]

Re: Table Talk i tend to ignore it mostly,as you say they are pissed off cos they played badly,, live, my problem is too much chat and not enough concentration,although it does put people off to a certain degree;). must admit i have had a lot of abuse over the last couple of years, not so much now,but in my early days:loon

[GaF]

Re: Table Talk

" mole i wish you death" "i hope you get cancer" "your mothers a ......( all sorts)"

I view that as totally out of order, unnecessary and beyond the scope of the game :unsure It's just personal abuse.... I tend to react to it in the same way as you say though - with a "ty" or similar - I dont believe it impacts my game at all (but would anyone think it does affect their game?) I do confess though that if someone starts going "zzzzzzzzzz" or says something like "hurry up" in the chat box, that is my cue to take the full time over EVERY decision. (especially if I have loads of other tables open and so don't have to sit there waiting myself :tongue2)

[Guppie]

Re: Table Talk As with anything moderation is the key i.m.o. Jones banter in a recent game was good humoured and only made the game more enjoyable for example. Comments on bad play,fish even things like idiot call are acceptable. When i suck out on you i dont even mind the ffs how could you call to the river with that crap;) Personal insults and abuse are not,again i.m.o. Would you accept it from a stranger passing in the street? Or if you were in a pub and someone came over to the table and started calling your partner a cnut etc would you just shrug it away?If so then you are a more tolerant person than I am. If the site has the facility though just mute their chat. Regarding "Oultongate" this was during a PL game i believe and it is not something you would expect in what are normally good natured games played in the forum spirit I have come to expect on here. Anyway just my twopenneth worth make of it what you will.

[GaF]

Re: Table Talk

I take everything with a pinch of salt and believe me i get plenty of abuse things like " mole i wish you death" "i hope you get cancer" "your mothers a ......( all sorts)"

Have you had that in a live game? Or only on the internet? I'd be surprised if that happened live, and was just accepted by all ..... if it's not accepted live, why should it be accepted online?

[McG]

Re: Table Talk I've noticed more on the American site, bodog, where things they'd like to do to my wife/mother/sister defy belief sometimes, but card rooms themselves should take some responsibility for the level of abuse that is hurled around by some people. No-one particularly minds an abbreviated "ffs" from another player when you have caught a lucky river to beat a seemingly invincible hand. Card rooms must have the ability to track the use of certain words, and it's disappointing to see that little control is exercised by them. For me, the permanent withdrawal of rights to chat would be a fair penalty for throwing around the type of nasty, personal vitriol that we have seen. My own experience to add to the "Oultongate" saga was back in June in the final leg of the Champions League when, with about 4,500 chips, compared to the Big O's 2,000, the blinds were about 75/150. He went all-in pre-flop, which I took to be a massive overbet of either a medium pair or AK/AQ. I called his all-in pre-flop bet with 99. He turned over JJ, and he was REALLY cheesed off when I caught a 9 and he didn't. This meant that he could no longer win the league, and he went off on one LONG, LONG rant, hanging around for at least 10 minutes post exit to complain about my play. OK, I was lucky, but stuff like that happens all the time - he'll win 4 times out of 5, but why on earth did he risk all his chips with JJ so early in the tourney? As for live stuff, aren't there limits in the casinos - ie words that you can not say without incurring a time penalty?

[the croc]

Re: Table Talk im sure most players have had verbal abuse online to varying degrees,i tend to ignore it regardless of what is said,i also try not to dish out abuse but readily admit i have done in the past but my abuse would be regarding poker play and certainly not a personal attack,live play i cant really comment on but would suspect it would be a lot less chance of somebody spouting off.

[Nade]

Re: Table Talk Personally i love the banter at the table, giving or recieving it i don't mind as you might have seen in some PL games ;). Mostly i do it to liven up myself and the others otherwise i'd start to lose concentration, but absolutely everything i say is pure sarcasm so if anyone's been offended by my musings then i'm sorry ;), apart from Gaf, he deserves it. In cash games i used to be really bad at taking beats, but my criticisms were always constructive saying "why the **** are you playing that **** i raised a million $, you had no odds etc." Now i just say "ffs" stay silent, until - and this is my golden rule now - until i win it back. I don't get offended easily, people can say what they like and i'll laugh it off, or give it back, i never take it personally. And if i've ever called you a donk, it's probably because you are :lol

[goater14]

Re: Table Talk one or two sites do monitor the language being used and act accordingly, I got a warning awhile back for typing Scunthorpe in the box when having a chat about football!

[GaF]

Re: Table Talk Prima are exceptionally good at dealing with improper chat :ok

[Jaded]

Re: Table Talk

I do confess though that if someone starts going "zzzzzzzzzz" or says something like "hurry up" in the chat box, that is my cue to take the full time over EVERY decision. (especially if I have loads of other tables open and so don't have to sit there waiting myself :tongue2)

Bloody hell, me and GaF share the same view on something in poker. :rollin

[teaulc]

Re: Table Talk

Bloody hell' date=' me and GaF share the same view on something in poker. :rollin[/quote'] now we are guaranteed a white xmas:dude:dude:dude

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Table Talk i love a bit of banter at the table and if somebodys on tilt and being abusive towards me or others at the table i will quite happily help keep them that way using a few choice words. i find that they are showing a weakness its good to exploit it by keeping them boiling till you get a good hand.keeping them angry at you makes them more likely to be more aggressive towards you and less likely to fold. i dont use any nasty stuff ,more phil hellmuth style banter, you cant beat me,you could never win on this table etc.if they are already losing it this seems to be enough to keep them that way but also keeps them at the table,which is handy in a cash game;) i think i have heard every insult under the sun when i used to play early on weekend mornings.drunken americans are definately prone to an emotional outburst or two and i copped a lot of it ,but it taught me never to let it effect me but to use it to my advantage:ok

[happyhornet]

Re: Table Talk Banter is good. Personal insults are not. 'ffs' 'lucky ' 'nice catch' etc etc are part and parcel of online poker. Insulting someone's partner/child etc is totally and utterly unacceptable. End of story.

[kippe6]

Re: Table Talk manners maketh the man why lower yourself to there level

[BAM]

Re: Table Talk

Have you had that in a live game? Or only on the internet?

He only gets that in live games when playing with me :lol Personally I dont give a rats arse about abuse live or online. I tend not to have chat on when playing online but when I see someone going off I usually join in to wind them up more. In live games I think I am a nightmare to sit with, I don't abuse people but I do take the mickey, tell crap jokes and sing a lot :lol. When I get abused in a live game (usually by young asian kids for some reason) I just agree with everything they are calling me and keep stacking their chips. Don't really know oulton or what he has done to upset so many people but it seems to me it is all part of his game and if it works for him good luck but if it is not working maybe he should rethink his strategy.

[Football-Tipper]

Re: Table Talk Im with Bri on this I love banter and if someones gone give it out be prepared to get it back 10 fold ;) I find I play better when giving it out it helps me relax and also you dont want to be out to someone your giving it to coz then they win lol.

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: Table Talk

Don't really know oulton or what he has done to upset so many people but it seems to me it is all part of his game and if it works for him good luck but if it is not working maybe he should rethink his strategy.

With all due respect Brian, I know for a fact you wouldn't stand for someone calling Diane a "fcukin cnut" etc... live or online, nor would you wish him good luck if that was his strategy. ;)

[BAM]

Re: Table Talk

With all due respect Brian' date=' I know for a fact you wouldn't stand for someone calling Diane a "fcukin cnut" etc... live or online, nor would you wish him good luck if that was his strategy. ;)[/quote'] Aye why not I do it often enough, she's big and ugly enough to take it and give it back ;)

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: Table Talk You know very well you'd rip their head off! :lol Pene can take of herself also, but it's not about that. It's an indirect insult to the boyfriend/husband also.

[gavham]

Re: Table Talk

Have you had that in a live game? Or only on the internet? I'd be surprised if that happened live, and was just accepted by all ..... if it's not accepted live, why should it be accepted online?

No i have not had that live so don't really know how i would react. but online i really couldn't care less, sticks n stones. i think you must be a good player to spark these reactions. As for the weekend coming, i have never met oulton but i will and take him at face value. I am sure he will be a decent guy who seems to enjoy winding people up. ( shouldn't rise to the bate)

[Football-Tipper]

Re: Table Talk just read this on the inside poker news letter Sneaky business in poker Underhand tactics Trash-talking, calling the clock and staring someone down might not figure in the ‘classy’ poker book

By Marc Goodwin

November 2007

Throughout my long career of playing poker I have witnessed every sneaky, unscrupulous tactic imaginable, from the sublime to the ridiculous, the subtle and the downright rude. But, however straight your moral compass may be, it’s a fact of poker life that used properly, a little bit of shiftiness can go a long way to boosting your bankroll. In this article, we’re going to take a look at some of the tricks of the trade players will use to try and throw you off balance; both for future reference and for you to implement into your own game. TRASH TALK The undisputed king of the vitriolic verbal onslaught is Tony G. The worst example I have seen of his notorious abusiveness was in the Monte Carlo Millions. Tony came out bluffing and got all his chips in almost dead. He hit runner-runner to win the pot and knocked out the other player. What then followed was unreal. He stood up screaming: ‘How bad are you? I played that hand like I had a set!’ The swearing and abuse continued for a full five minutes after his hapless victim had left the table. Any of you who go on youtube can bear witness to his outbursts and I have to admit that I love watching them. They are part of his character, but are done for a purpose: to destroy the opposition. You have to say that as a rule it works well for him, it makes him appear fearsome to lots of players who don’t know him. It’s less effective on players like me who know him; players who have witnessed a more gentle, caring side to the big guy – such as when he won the Betfair Asian Poker Tour and donated half his winnings to charity before giving the trophy to the local lad he beat. That’s an act of kindness many people don’t see. Andy Black, on the other hand, uses the ‘I am your teacher so don’t misbehave’ routine to bamboozle his opponents. He will often give a player a good telling off as to etiquette or procedure, and an apology counts for nothing as it only exacerbates his condemnation of your actions. This forces a lot of players to shy away from action with him, allowing Andy to often steal his way to victory. With Andy though it’s not an act – it’s his way of doing things. He is the first to speak his mind, but not to the point of being rude. Nevertheless, it has the same effect as Tony G’s method: it makes you feel uneasy and susceptible to his will. One of the best ever put downs was at The Vic in London by Tony Bolton, who after skinning a player was asked if he could loan him £20 for the cab fare home, to which Tony replied: ‘Here’s a pound – losers get the bus.’ This guy came back and went on tilt with Tony for six months. You either have to take it or be good at giving it back. For the most part I handle it easily as I love the verbal that goes with the game and often enter into banter with fellow players. I am trying to gain an edge by getting them to tilt. KEY POINT You have a myriad of options if you’re going to trash talk. Do you want to belittle like Tony G or scold your opponents like Andy Black? CLOCKING OFF A tactic I often use to throw a player off his game is to call the clock on him. This is a rule whereby a player who takes a long time over a decision is put under a time constraint by the floor manager – usually two minutes. You are allowed to call the clock on any player at any time even if you are not involved in the hand. At this year’s WPT Championships one guy was taking ages on every hand he played. No one said anything until, on taking his usual four to five minutes, he declared to the raiser: ‘Next time you raise I will call you, but I can’t now,’ before showing 2-4 offsuit. On the next hand, as soon as it was his turn – but before he even looked at his cards – I called the clock on him and continued to do so for the next hour. He played every raise against me and I won a good load of chips off him. This was picked up on by some other pros who joined in the fun. In the end we were arguing about who called it first! KEY POINT Calling the clock on someone is akin to calling them to arms – obviously they are hardly ever going to like you for it and you have the chance to put them on tilt INDECISIVENESS Another part of a player’s armoury is the supposed mental calculations that you process whilst making a decision. Gus Hansen is a master purveyor of this tactic. When he is making a move, he tosses his head from side to side and mutters to himself as though working out his options and what he thinks you have. It often gives the players the impression that he is indecisive – but do not be deceived. He is in my opinion the best odds calculator in the game bar none. Many a time he can quote you very precise odds at any given moment. This apparent lack of conviction gets him lots of action as I am sure it is designed to. He often tells you what you have in your hand and watches your reaction as to his analysis. It’s an excellent way to get information from a player. If you ever happen to be at the same table as Gus, listen to his thought process (as he always speaks to himself out loud) and try to pick up segments of it that you can improve your game with. KEY POINT Pretending you’re working out odds, outs or your opponent’s hand is a good way of convincing your opponent that you’re unsure of your own hand. This is extremely useful if you want to encourage action THE STARE-DOWN All who have played the game will have at some point encountered the stare-down. Personally, there are only a few players I don’t make eye contact and enter dialogue with. One is Carlos Mortensen. I swear that man can see into your very soul. The first time I encountered this was when we were up against each other in the semi-final of the Heads-up Poker Circuit in Barcelona. I got through in the end, but never spoke a word or looked at him the whole match. It’s not that he is physically intimidating – and he is a great guy – it’s just that I was sure he could read me if I said anything or even glanced in his direction. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, after all he is the only player ever to have won the WSOP main event and WPT World Championships. The other player I watch out for is Phil Ivey. At the Monte Carlo Millions, I was happy to talk and look directly at him, totally oblivious as to how good he was at getting a read on me. After watching the show on TV, I realised it was a big mistake and would have to play him differently next time. That infamous hand against Paul Jackson where both players kept re-raising each other with nothing made it obvious that Phil is a totally different proposition to most. Against 90% of players I am sure Paul’s move would have worked, but Phil’s ability to read you with those glances mean that invariably he comes out on top. KEY POINT Employ the stare-down to make your opponent uncomfortable and force tells; counter the stare-down by talking back at him and convince him you are totally relaxed (unless you’re playing Carlos Mortensen or Phil Ivey) END THOUGHTS Your edge at any time in poker is very slim so make an effort to learn from your adversary and maybe add a little spice into your game. Don’t try to be a carbon copy of the players I have mentioned as it will probably end in tears, but rather learn to handle their tactics and try to enhance your own game by adding bits that you find helpful. You should watch poker shows, high-stakes cash games and read books. But more importantly, when you are on a table with a top player, take into account everything you witness and use it the first chance you get. Put that extra 10% into your game and watch as the good results flow.

[SteveO]

Re: Table Talk I didn't notice any banter in my recent GUKPT Blackpool game but what I did notice was how comfortable people were made to feel and it was a really great atmosphere. On my table "Mad Marty Wilson" went out of his way to get to know everybody but I believe this is part of his poker arsenal as he's really distracting you whilst playing hands and he's always observing. It really was a masterclass, I found it extremely difficult to concentrate and many others said the same but still really enjoyed being at the table.

[GaF]

Re: Table Talk

" mole i wish you death" "i hope you get cancer" "your mothers a ......( all sorts)"

The undisputed king of the vitriolic verbal onslaught is Tony G. The worst example I have seen of his notorious abusiveness was in the Monte Carlo Millions.

For me there is a huge gulf in difference between the kind of personal abuse the mole is talking of, also what Oulton says at the tables and what Tony G gets up to - it's nowhere near the same thing. Whilst some of Tony G's table antics make me sit a little uncomfortably, it's just not the same level as what we're talking about....

[Penelopeys]

Re: Table Talk

Pene can take care of herself also' date=' but it's not about that. It's an indirect insult to the boyfriend/husband also.[/quote'] I can indeed take care of myself when people give me shit on the tables :ok ... however the amount and the nature of abuse I have put up with by Oulton (and it goes nearly a year back) is incredible!!! How it effects my play? -I want his chips even more!!

[SteveO]

Re: Table Talk When playing live if someone does get bit Irrate I usually find that the comment "Shut the fcuk up!" usually works. It must obviously be said in an aggressive manner, those who have a Joe Pasquale type voice don't seem to get the same result.

[Galronix]

Re: Table Talk My favorite reply to somone ranting and raving after you have taken their chips is.. "sorry, what did you say?, I was counting your chips" :lol Doesn't happen that often, the other way maybe. :(