Masterplan Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 just had this hand on one of my tables the guy with QQ is arguing till hes blue in the face that he KNEW i had AK and that because of this he had odds to call. i've been trying to tell him that he should have folded to my isolation raise (shorty had been going AI a few times) so here it is. what would you do if you were me what would you do if you were JLoveDale Game #4235603504: Hold'em NL ($0.15/$0.25) - 2007/01/20 - 21:49:41 (CET) Table "Hahahahaha" Seat 2 is the button. Seat 1: MrKlok ($36.92 in chips) Seat 2: Vegasmd ($8.16 in chips) Seat 3: Kombat ($26.95 in chips) Seat 4: masterpla ($35.30 in chips) Seat 5: JLovedale ($31.03 in chips) Seat 6: shop1 ($8.35 in chips) Kombat: posts small blind $0.15 masterpla: posts big blind $0.25 ----- HOLE CARDS ----- dealt to masterpla [Kc Ac] JLovedale: raises to $1.50 shop1: folds MrKlok: folds Vegasmd: raises to $8.16 and is all-in Kombat: folds masterpla: raises to $35.30 and is all-in JLovedale: is all-in $29.53 Returned uncalled bets $4.27 to masterpla ----- FLOP ----- [Ks Jd Td] ----- TURN ----- [Ks Jd Td][8s] ----- RIVER ----- [Ks Jd Td 8s][7h] ----- SHOW DOWN ----- masterpla: shows [Kc Ac] (A Pair of Kings, Ace high) JLovedale: shows [Qd Qh] (A Pair of Queens, King high) Vegasmd: shows [5h 5c] (A Pair of Fives, King high) masterpla collected $43.94 from Side pot #1 masterpla collected $23.43 from Main pot ----- SUMMARY ----- Total pot $70.37 Main pot $23.43 Side pot #1 $43.94 | Rake $3 Board [Ks Jd Td 8s 7h] Seat 1: MrKlok folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: Vegasmd (button) showed [5h 5c] and lost with A Pair of Fives, King high Seat 3: Kombat (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: masterpla (big blind) showed [Kc Ac] and won ($67.37) with A Pair of Kings, Ace high Seat 5: JLovedale showed [Qd Qh] and lost with A Pair of Queens, King high Seat 6: shop1 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick mick Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises If he could see the hands face up then he was certainly getting odds to call as he is a slight favourite and getting better than evens on his money (approx 2.25-1. However he could be up against AA or KK in which case he is a massive underdog. Without knowing more about how the table and you in particular were playing it's hard to analyse further. However if he did put you on AK he made the correct play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises It's very difficult to lay down QQ pre flop and whilst there are circumstances when I would, I think in this situation, ESPECIALLY at 15c/25c, I would probably call ...... too many people at this level would do the same as you with hands like JJ or AQ ..... Your shove looks like an attempt to isolate the all in short stack which can be interpreted as weakness with a mid strength hand...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterplan Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises thanks for the quick replies. i guess my attitude towards QQ on 6 handed tables is slightly different since i'm highly suspicious of any A or K i never call all in a full buyin preflop vs a raise then re-raise. never mind a re-raise then re-raise. earlier on the same table i got stacked by AA while holding QQ after i raised and he RR 3x. i flat called and bet near pot at a 10 high flop. he RR all in and i called, but if another guy had been involved in the pot and i was required to put my entire stack in pf, i woulda folded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises difficult one, he was ahead when the money went it in, he had odds to call. He raises 6 x BB preflop, which is fine for me. All depends on his read of you, only AA KK would he be behind to. Don't see too much wrong with it, think he made the correct call. You were also behind to the 55 remember, when the money went in, you had the worst chance out of the three players in the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterplan Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises difficult one, he was ahead when the money went it in, he had odds to call. He raises 6 x BB preflop, which is fine for me. All depends on his read of you, only AA KK would he be behind to. Don't see too much wrong with it, think he made the correct call. You were also behind to the 55 remember, when the money went in, you had the worst chance out of the three players in the pot. I agree, but due to shorties previous actions i had him on a range of JQs/77+ so figured an isolation bet would have given me a 45-70% advantage over the his range. which is more than enough. i wasnt expecting the call as i made the bet to get the other player out of the hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises You were also behind to the 55 remember, when the money went in, you had the worst chance out of the three players in the pot. Actually, although he'd be underdog to the 55 heads-up, he's a lot more likely to beat both other hands than the 55 is. It's a lot easier for him to improve enough to beat the QQ than it is for the 55. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises yeah I know that. My take (such as it is) chances of winning pot when money went in Fav QQ 2nd 55 3rd AK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises The odds for the 3 hands were: 1) QdQh 44% 2) AcKc 38% 3) 5c5h 18% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises The odds for the 3 hands were: 1) QdQh 44% 2) AcKc 38% 3) 5c5h 18% I'd imagine that the 18% of the time the 55 wins the sidepot, the QQ is more likely to beat the AK than he would be heads-up (because that means one of the board cards is probably a 5, and not a club, using up one of the cards that could help the AK overtake the QQ). Anybody have the software to check this, and see how large the effect is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick mick Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises QhQd approx 54% to win against AcKc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises QhQd approx 54% to win against AcKc Given that the 55 beats both of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick mick Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises Given that the 55 beats both of them? Thats for the sidepot forgetting about the 55 which is covered by GaFs percentages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmuzeman Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises Id call this with the QQ, Id figure it was the best hand personally. I wouldnt love calling it or anything but the shortstack I wouldnt be worried about what he had so much (could have so any things tbh). Then your reraise is EXACTLY the sort of move id associate as someone with AK doing, its a classic AK move so yeah id call. The other likely hand I could put you on would be JJ. I would expect personally for AA or KK just to flatcall the shortstacks all in so i wouldnt put you on those therefore QQ is a call. As for your play mate, I think it was fine too, hed fold a lot of hands there and youd be left HU with what can be expected to be the best hand a lot of the time. I think it was just played fine all round really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Re: would you call QQ all in vs 2 re-raises its not excatly raise and reraise from a purists point of view as one player is AI and is LAAG 9I mean that there is no more play as everyone is AI) the other chap you said has been AI a couple of times - so his shoving range is fairly large, and the reraise AI by you is saying please don't call I want to isolate with AK AQ JJ 1010 etc if you had AA KK would you reraise shove or just call and hope player 1 also calls to get some more cash in the middle? - your play is one that looks like AK etc now - whether I would call with QQ is another matter - if I hadn't seen you do this before I would probably fold to get a read on you coz I get to his his hand and yours at showdown - but as it is short handed QQ is very powerful...... tricky one really - would be read dependant to call/fold Damo thanks for the quick replies. i guess my attitude towards QQ on 6 handed tables is slightly different since i'm highly suspicious of any A or K i never call all in a full buyin preflop vs a raise then re-raise. never mind a re-raise then re-raise. earlier on the same table i got stacked by AA while holding QQ after i raised and he RR 3x. i flat called and bet near pot at a 10 high flop. he RR all in and i called, but if another guy had been involved in the pot and i was required to put my entire stack in pf, i woulda folded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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