had to share this hand

[glceud]

Re: had to share this hand OK so you wanted to win 4k, with that hand I would have wanted his entire stack. You got lucky in as much as he had only one of two hands he could call you with that you had dominated. Any other hand bar the flush draw he would have more than likely have folded. Even jacks or queens. Let him have another card, he might have paired his a/k or a/q or tried another continuation bet. All I said was that his call was correct and that I would have played it differently and in a massive % of the time I would win more money than u would have there if his cards were other than kings or aces. in those cases we both win the same amount or go bust. OK I might go bust to runner runner Straights or flushes if he is on 2 other cards but that is a chance worth taking. You make a big deal of the stakes involved, well one mans dollar is another mans dime We all know you are a winning player, well so am I but unless someone bankrolls me you will always be better than me

[glceud]

Re: had to share this hand As for playing poker from a book when I started playing there was only 2 books on poker in print, no magazines, tv shows, no dvds, no poker software to work out you plays and definately no poker forums. Sklansky's holdem poker for advanced players was out of print and interestingly there was only one copy in the whole UK library system.

[gavham]

Re: had to share this hand

OK so you wanted to win 4k, with that hand I would have wanted his entire stack. You got lucky in as much as he had only one of two hands he could call you with that you had dominated. Any other hand bar the flush draw he would have more than likely have folded. Even jacks or queens. Let him have another card, he might have paired his a/k or a/q or tried another continuation bet. All I said was that his call was correct and that I would have played it differently and in a massive % of the time I would win more money than u would have there if his cards were other than kings or aces. in those cases we both win the same amount or go bust. OK I might go bust to runner runner Straights or flushes if he is on 2 other cards but that is a chance worth taking. You make a big deal of the stakes involved, well one mans dollar is another mans dime We all know you are a winning player, well so am I but unless someone bankrolls me you will always be better than me

As you have never played at this level you clearly have no idea what your talking about, if you like to play slow then i'm not surprised you need bankrolled. i on the other hand have built my stack this year starting with £50.what you have to remember is i have played at every level, so therefore am in a position to say it is completley different at this level Don't want to appear arrogant or offend you but you really must learn to adapt and open your mind to improve

[gavham]

Re: had to share this hand You only seem to play the cards, there are a huge number of other factors you must take into account , the table , the players, things that happened previous, its better to win 4k than risk losing 10, etc too many too mention but these factors can be more important than the cards as for the book reading thing , i have never read a poker book and don't intend to as i find its better to learn from your mistakes

[glceud]

Re: had to share this hand Guess I played this hand all wrong then Game #1811752221 - (blinds $0.50/$1) No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2006/12/08-09:35:55.9 (CST) Table "Makira" (real money) -- Seat 8 is the button Seat 1: fivepenny ($72.00 in chips) Seat 2: AA_Boss ($20.25 in chips) Seat 3: turbojenks ($98.50 in chips) Seat 4: Bwzzard ($80.80 in chips) Seat 5: nokia80 ($196.60 in chips) Seat 6: MaxAA ($207.53 in chips) Seat 7: Supercam77 ($105.95 in chips) Seat 8: Russell Byrd ($87.00 in chips) Seat 9: georgeweah ($167.75 in chips) Seat 10: menona ($20.00 in chips) georgeweah: Post Small Blind ($0.50) menona : Post Big Blind ($1) Dealing... Dealt to fivepenny [ 8s ] Dealt to fivepenny [ 8d ] fivepenny: Call ($1) AA_Boss : Fold turbojenks: Call ($1) Bwzzard : Call ($1) nokia80 : Fold MaxAA : Raise ($6.50) Supercam77: Fold Russell Byrd: Call ($6.50) georgeweah: Fold menona : Fold fivepenny: Call ($5.50) turbojenks: Call ($5.50) Bwzzard : Call ($5.50) *** FLOP *** : [ Kc 4d 8h ] fivepenny: Check turbojenks: Check Bwzzard : Check MaxAA : Bet ($17) Russell Byrd: Fold fivepenny: Call ($17) turbojenks: Fold Bwzzard : Fold *** TURN *** : [ Kc 4d 8h ] [ 9s ] fivepenny: Check MaxAA : Bet ($130) fivepenny: Call All-in ($48.50) *** RIVER *** : [ Kc 4d 8h 9s ] [ Jd ] *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $162 | Rake: $3 Board: [ Kc 4d 8h 9s Jd ] fivepenny bet $72, collected $162, net +$90 (showed hand) [ 8s 8d ] (three of a kind, eights) AA_Boss didn't bet (folded) turbojenks lost $6.50 (folded) Bwzzard lost $6.50 (folded) nokia80 didn't bet (folded) MaxAA bet $153.50, collected $81.50, net -$72 [ Ac Kh ] (a pair of kings) Supercam77 didn't bet (folded) Russell Byrd lost $6.50 (folded) georgeweah lost $0.50 (folded) menona lost $1 (folded) Difference is mole I wanted MaxAA to continue betting the hand for me and I wanted Turbo and Bwzzard to stay in the pot too for the ammount of times that hand would lose with that flop I am prepared to lose my buy in to maximise my return You make a big deal of the stakes you are playing at, well it appears you are well outwith you comfort zone. I doubt if every one at you table is in the same mind shape As for book reading I read Sklansky whih teaches the utter basics then I read super system which contradicts everything in Sklansky since then I just learn from my mistakes too. Perhaps I should try at a higher level but to be honest all I want to do is pay for christmas and the odd holiday

[gavham]

Re: had to share this hand Glceud your patter reeks of the green eyed monster so i can't be bothered with your nonsense any more . it appears you are trying to goad me into an argument of which you do not know what you are speaking about ( the stakes) unless you have played there you simply can't understand the game at that level. as for "playing out my comfort zone" lol where do you get this shit from. you know nothing of my roll or game so i don't kbnow how you can make a ridiculas comment like that . anyway heres another one which i'm sure will keep you lying awake......lol, this one leaves me wide open for your wise words but remember its not always about the cards ***** Hand 479746345 ***** 25.00/50.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 08 December 2006 15:53:58 Table TH 284 (Real /Cash Game ) Seat 2: Mr.Aki (5244.00) Seat 3: phillyy (0.00) Seat 4: the mole (5513.00) Mr.Aki post SB 25.00 the mole post BB 50.00 ** Deal ** Mr.Aki [N/A, N/A] the mole [9h, Ad] *** Bet Round 1 *** Mr.Aki Raise to 200.00 the mole Call 200.00 *** Flop(Board): *** : [Jd, 9d, 5c] *** Bet Round 2 *** the mole Check Mr.Aki Bet 250.00 the mole Raise to 500.00 Mr.Aki Raise to 1400.00 the mole Call 1400.00 *** Turn(Board): *** : [Jd, 9d, 5c, Ac] *** Bet Round 3 *** the mole Check Mr.Aki All-in 3644.00 the mole Call 3644.00 *** River(Board): *** : [Jd, 9d, 5c, Ac, 6c] *** Showdown *** : Rake: 3.00 Total Pot: 10485.00 Mr.Aki [Kd, 2d] Highest card ace Win :0.00 the mole [9h, Ad] Two pair aces and nines Win :10485.00

[glceud]

Re: had to share this hand Thats the only hand you have ever posted that I have replied in the negative. And I still think you played it wrong so lets leave it a that. Unfortunately there is no one else on here playing at your stakes to comment. Nicely done with the second one you got the maximum return on the best hand and I assume that was the right way to play it as you knew who you were playing against

[lathmeister]

Re: had to share this hand Wow nice pot mole Wonder if you can post your play for a week or so to see how you are doing, but mind you if you are playing for that amount of money u must be either a great player or a rich man Do you want to sponsor me:rollin

[Valiant23]

Re: had to share this hand I can promise you he's an every day bloke mate. He took £50 at the start of the year and built it up through the levels. :ok

[davidireland]

Re: had to share this hand

Unfortunately there is no one else on here playing at your stakes to comment.

I play at these levels m8 and the way the mole played that hand was perfect. When your playing high stakes and 4k in pot...you want to kill it cause you dont want to give the opposite player the chance to win. 4k is better than nothing and i'm sure every single player will agree with this...just say he had of done ur way and a another k popped out....he'd be stuck then m8 and lose everything he had.. Your methods are different to everyones methods like mine....every single person plays there own game and in this case mole got it on the button and what i will say is very well played. glceud i'm sure your a great player and your methods worth for you...but you cant always play to the exact same way therefore the player at the table will eventually read u. When playing high stakes...its all about power and i'm sure mole will agree. If i had of been in moles positon i would of done exact same thing as he done. You cant imagine how stressful it is if you dont play at this level. David.

[robilaruk]

Re: had to share this hand can we all take a breather here? - lots of testosterone flying about:lol re the stakes - what is difference between playing at the $1/$2 or the $25/$50? feck all if you have the bankroll to sustain it - this has been discussed alot here and is worth revisiting - if you have the necessary buy-ins then the amount (should) mean nothing to you - as you have the comfort of playing and being able to lose everyone should buy in above their BR limit every so often, just to test the water and play a little scared - its great! but you should not play with scared money every game, if you are, then regardless of your bankroll you are playing at the wrong level and need to step down, to find somewhere that you are comfortable playing at and don't mind the loss. I would guess a lot of professionals would say something similar its all a matter of scale and confidence - as you may know I am grinding at the Betfair .05/10c NL cash tables at the mo, whilst playing $30 and $50 STT on sporting at the same time - why? coz i have about a fiver on betfair and a lot more on sporting - I can play on sporting no probs, but am sweating on Betfair coz I am under Bankrolled for the level and every loss is a massive blow to me (plus I am shite at cash games :lol ) Damo

[davidireland]

Re: had to share this hand Really i dont see what the big fuss is cause at end of day he's 19k+ and to me that will be the right hand regardless cause he's the one with the cash...ya can say in myth that he was lucky but not really he had good hand and at end of day he's the one rolling in it and i say very well done. David.

[friskyfitz]

Re: had to share this hand

Firstly at the point of going all in there was 4k in the pot so winning it there and then is key. secondly i didnt think at all what he had as i had the nuts at that point, if i let another card out i might not have the nuts anymore and have now lost the power next there were 2 spades on the flop he couldve been drawing so all in was without a doubt the play you actually need to play at this level to understand that its all about power, and you have no idea the pressure on you at all times the pot at this level is worth winning from the off, so really no need to take chances in trying to build it poker at a good level cannot be played from a book!!! cheers mcfc couldn't have said it better masell

Only point I will make here is that "the mole" is spot on when he says Power is the key - IT IS!!!!!! FULL STOP

[friskyfitz]

Re: had to share this hand

You only seem to play the cards, there are a huge number of other factors you must take into account , the table , the players, things that happened previous, its better to win 4k than risk losing 10, etc too many too mention but these factors can be more important than the cards as for the book reading thing , i have never read a poker book and don't intend to as i find its better to learn from your mistakes

:clap:clap:clap most honest poker answer ever. For anybody to critisise that move......... YOU ARE PLAYING WITH FIRE!!!!!

[AJ]

Re: had to share this hand

You make a big deal of the stakes you are playing at, well it appears you are well outwith you comfort zone. I doubt if every one at you table is in the same mind shape

as for "playing out my comfort zone" lol where do you get this shit from. you know nothing of my roll or game so i don't kbnow how you can make a ridiculas comment like that .

Wasn't going to post on this thread, but changed my mind, i do agree with the first post to a degree. The orginal post on this thread made a comment about it being by far the biggest pot he'd ever won. At $50BB, something like $50,000 is a minimum bank roll prudent for these levels. I don't know (or really care) if you have this. I'm not short of a quid, the money here doesn't impress me all that much, if you are playing at a level where you are pressured and the win or loss of a single pot makes a major difference to you, then yes, the evidence would suggest you're playing outside of what most people would consider comfortable. I also read on this thread constantly the game is different at higher levels because people are more agressive, and there is more pressure. Surely a unit of bankroll a BB is the same where ever you are. If people are more agressive, and raise with less hands, then a tight player who is adequetly bankrolled should get paid much easier as when they hit big cards they'll get paid off. It's the same game after all, best 5 cards from 7. Pot odds don't change. There is only pressure if you can be bullied out a pot or a single pot has a major impact on bankroll. If that is the case, then I'd suggest you are playing at too high a level. Short term variance cuts both ways. I also find your constant dismisal and mocking of "book learning" a very arrogant. If you feel you have nothing to learn from the masters of the game like Harrington, Brunson or Hellmuth, I'd say show me your WSOP bracelets.

[voiceofjoe]

Re: had to share this hand

I also find your constant dismisal and mocking of "book learning" a very arrogant. If you feel you have nothing to learn from the masters of the game like Harrington, Brunson or Hellmuth, I'd say show me your WSOP bracelets.

Sorry 'Fools' but that statement doesn't cut true, did Brunson,Harrington and Hellmuth learn from books - I don't think so. Stu Ungar,Scotty Nguyen, Johnny Chan .... none of these will have learned form books either. I've read HH and my suffered 2 losing months on the trot subsequently. Don't get me wrong, i'm not putting 'Mole' up with the levels of Stu Ungar etc (- sorry 'Mole' not yet anyway ;) ). But I would suggest that in everything you do, not just Poker, learning by your own experiences and mistakes - for anyone of reasonable levels of intelligence- is by far the better way to go. And the bit about 'Show me your WSOP bracelets' - whats that got to do with anything on this thread - do they give bracelets for Cash Games on Sporting Odds ???

[pokerjace]

Re: had to share this hand Fcuk it,nice hand.:ok

[robilaruk]

Re: had to share this hand lol - still plenty of testosterone flying about I see re books: they are a great learning tool (but they are just a tool). The best way of learning is by doing (and has been proved countless times by academics regarding retention of info etc). Books will teach you things and used in the right way will have a positive effect on your play, but only if you process the information by thinking about it and then using it alongside what you think it means and whats best for you. re: Brunson, it has been well documented about the time he, Sailor Roberts and Slim put in after games talking and discussing hands and coming up with theories on how best to play in each situation (read the IE article about 4 issues ago). Yes it wasn't a book, but what they were doing was sitting and discussing pot odds and position and using aggression when needed (just like what most of the books say!) there is nothing wrong in learning, whether it is by reading, hand discussion on forums and/or experience. To dismiss any of these is folly IMO as they all have a place in everyones armoury to a greater or lesser extent. Glad this has provoked such a good discussion, but maybe we need to stop shouting at each other so much? ;) Cheers Damo ps: WSOP Bracelet - maybe next year, one of us is due a victory:ok

[robilaruk]

Re: had to share this hand different times, different strokes etc can't see how you can use this as an argument for or against really?? - plenty of players around now have spent time reading and posting on forums and discussing strategies and some of them have a bracelet to their name (Fossilman etc) and others have read Doyle and used his strategies (certainly negreanu and I think Ivey as well) Tho as you said, nothing beats experience Damo

Sorry 'Fools' but that statement doesn't cut true, did Brunson,Harrington and Hellmuth learn from books - I don't think so. Stu Ungar,Scotty Nguyen, Johnny Chan .... none of these will have learned form books either. quote]

[Jonne]

Re: had to share this hand

fcuk the plays and %'s' date=' man you must have balls the size of the millenium dome :unsure[/quote'] And a giant E-penis to go with that :lol