moFace Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 its the first hand you are first to act and have AK off suit how would you play it? call, raise, fold how much etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hyperthetical stt question call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAC Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hyperthetical stt question Limp in. Get raised. Close eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mivi Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hyperthetical stt question I'd probably put in a small raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hyperthetical stt question Call... (keep in mind that AK OFTEN gets beaten by a crap hand like 22, or something like it) I usually hope to get crap cards the first couple of rounds... so I can fold it very easily... and make everybody think I am VERY tight... ...Then I have no problems bullying them later on... Cackle Cackle :lol ...and take their money... :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brael Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hypothetical stt question First to act/open the pot? Raise up to 4 x BB. If you've got limpers in front of you, raise to try and reduce the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAULM03 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hypothetical stt question Raise to 4xBB. There's usually a maniac or 2 at the tables I play who'll call anything, if you get their chips early on life becomes a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uglycow Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hyperthetical stt question ...Then I have no problems bullying them later on... Cackle Cackle :lol ...and take their money... :tongue2 I thought you claimed NEVER to bully people ????? :dude:dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hypothetical stt question Just to expand.......if you raise first to act one of three things will happen 1. It's folded around and you win essentially nothing since the blinds are at level 1. 2. You get calls. If you get calls you don't know what to do if you miss the flop (which you probably will), and they probably have something to play you with if they've called a first position raise so a continuation bet is unlikely to do anything. 3. You get reraises, which means unless you're willing to push all-in on a rereraise0, which I wouldn't be with such a marginal holding on the first hand, that you lose most of the value of AK, which is folding equity. Which is to say you can raise people out of pots knowing you're likely to have only slightly less than 50/50 shot if you get a call - but you don't want the call, you don't want to be putting your chips in on a 50/50 (slightly worse even) on purpose, it's backup. It becomes a +EV pushing with AK on a cointoss because you only need to get folds a small percentage of the time to be up, but pushing into a reraise means not only that you're likely to be behind just based on the action, but you don't have enough chips to have leverage and consequently pick up folding equity. It's because of folding equity I'm normally a fan of raising AK, but first to act with nothing blinds I can't see any value in doing so. Just my opinion, many ways to skin a cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moFace Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hypothetical stt question cheers all interesting stuff:ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hypothetical stt question I would raise (3-4BB) as well, first hand or not. Even though the blinds are small the pot can still turn into something worth winning, and continuation/probe bets could still be pulled off if you miss the flop. Funnily enough, it was only the other day that I read this on Chris Ferguson's website: Never limp in. PUMP IT or DUMP IT!One of the most important rules of Hold'Em -- Limit or No Limit -- is to never, ever call as the first player to enter a pot before the flop. Either pump up the pot with a raise, or dump your cards in the muck. If your hand isn't strong enough for a raise, it's too weak for a call. This tactic makes it more difficult for your opponents to read your hand, and it makes it impossible for the big blind to ever see a flop for free when you're in the hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hyperthetical stt question I thought you claimed NEVER to bully people ????? :dude:dude I play poker... I am a liar :loon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAC Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hypothetical stt question Never limp in. PUMP IT or DUMP IT!One of the most important rules of Hold'Em -- Limit or No Limit -- is to never, ever call as the first player to enter a pot before the flop. Either pump up the pot with a raise, or dump your cards in the muck. If your hand isn't strong enough for a raise, it's too weak for a call. This tactic makes it more difficult for your opponents to read your hand, and it makes it impossible for the big blind to ever see a flop for free when you're in the hand Thats good advice if you are playing in the WSOP - not so good advice if you are on a $1.00 MTT with 800 Hungarians Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hypothetical stt question Is generally a bad idea to disagree with anything Ferguson says since he's probably the single most skilled player in the technical side of the game around, but am surprised to see him say that - a. just the whole idea of 'never, ever' doing any particular thing in a poker game seems weird, and b. because he doesn't follow that rule himself! I also think he'd get respect from a continuation bet in the games he plays, think the chances of that working in the games us lot play is very slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe1ne Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hypothetical stt question I would fold straight away, cos I know(now) Gaf would have the bloody pocket Kings:cry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokerose Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hypothetical stt question I would fold straight away' date=' cos I know(now) Gaf would have the bloody pocket Kings:cry[/quote'] :rollin:rollin:rollin. hes lucky with his Kings, eh? Me? I would probably be raising the 4x BB with a plan of getting away from the hand asap if anything gets ugly. 3 reasons for this. a. It may only be be AK but it could be the best hand at the table right now. I know its the first hand but I want to chase as many people as I can out of the pot and try and get into a heads up situation. b. If I limp in with this, it will make many of my decisions harder after the flop. Say Axx falls. Now I have top pair top kicker, but i might have allowed someone to limp in with any old crap and I can't play with the same confidence c. I want them to call and then fold when the flop comes. its not just a matter of picking up the blinds. I'm probably not going to be doing anything for the next 20 minutes while I wait for a hand, so it will have been nice for them to see me raise once... But you know, thats just what I'd do. There are far better STT players that have already given their opinion on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hypothetical stt question Given the standard at the STT's I play, I think I'd go all-in and hope for the best... although it does make it a quick tourney when someone produces AA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hypothetical stt question Assuming stacks of 1500 and blinds of 10/20 ...... The 30 blinds are not really worth winning (and if you bet 4x BB - my "standard" bet - you are looking to take the pot down there and then)...... I would be quite passive - treat it as a drawing hand - flat call and look to hit on the flop (betting hard if I do get any of it and letting it go if I miss). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalman Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hypothetical stt question Flat call unless you know all your opponents. I would call a small raise but I would fold to a large raise. You need information. You need to know your opponents. Your only losing the minimum by folding but you could be up against AA or KK, until you get to know the table (around the first blind raise) you have to give your opponents respect. BTW, I've typed this in before reading any of your other responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk Enchance Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: hypothetical stt question Depends if I've played any of the players before, how many are playing and what the stakes are but I reckon roughly speaking I would call about 40% of the time, raise to 3*BB about 40% of the time and raise 3-5*BB the other 20%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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