much needed advice on mtt

[sherry009]

at the moment im finding it really hard to move up a gear in the tournaments im getting enough chips but my hand selection is all wrong. today ive entered a £5 mtt on willy hill by level 8 i ad 16000 and was chip leader only to finish just outside the money:wall ive made quite a few final tables only winning once. im doin fine on the cash tables and stt's. can u give me some help on hand selection and betting im that unlucky in mtt's i got disconected in final 2 and got paid second!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stevie-p]

Re: much needed advice on mtt try reading harrington on hold em. good advice about hand selection. he has a 2nd book in the series which i havent read but it deals more with final tables and making plays etc. hope this helps. a bit of advice i would give is to watch the chip stacks on a final table ...as leader it isnt to ur advantage to play marginal hands against the short stacks ...the rewards arent good enough and as they may be pot commited bluffing wont work...the bigger stacks will fear u more as you can put them out from a good position ...isolate ur opponents as much as possible

[danno375]

Re: much needed advice on mtt my advice, sherry will be different from others, and probably different from the book tuitions. all through a tourney i play a very patient game. i wait and wait .... the nearer the money makes no difference. but when you get a hand... then let go with both barrels. if i get a decent starting hand then i am inclined to call aflop and see if it develops but i do agree with the book that you need to make fish pay to see the next card. if you get a good set of hole cards then by all means be aggressive..... but also be prepared to give it up if there is a hand beating you. bare in mind that people might have called or raised with dog poo......expect the unexpected. at least when you raise the table should see the sign that you have something good... they will hopefully trust to your raise. if you have the nuts then make it pay. my problem is that i get too scared by the unexpected and don't knock enough people out. all of this said..... by my patient game you will get those that hit a 2 pair, straight, flush draw etc. that perhaps a more aggressive stance would have eliminated. so it does have massive pitfalls. I often allow tiny pocket pairs to sneak in and hit the trips. but i have found that a lot of the monkeys would call any raise to see a flop so i guess it doesn't really matter. my best bit of advice is something that i have heard a few times... once you put some chips in the middle.... imagine that they were NEVER EVER in your stack to start with. that way you don't get twitchy if it looks like they are heading in another direction. sorry i can't be more help and that i don't tow the party line!!!! danno the patient renegade

[Penelopeys]

Re: much needed advice on mtt

my advice, sherry will be different from others, and probably different from the book tuitions. all through a tourney i play a very patient game. i wait and wait .... the nearer the money makes no difference. but when you get a hand... then let go with both barrels. if i get a decent starting hand then i am inclined to call aflop and see if it develops but i do agree with the book that you need to make fish pay to see the next card. if you get a good set of hole cards then by all means be aggressive..... but also be prepared to give it up if there is a hand beating you. bare in mind that people might have called or raised with dog poo......expect the unexpected. at least when you raise the table should see the sign that you have something good... they will hopefully trust to your raise. if you have the nuts then make it pay. my problem is that i get too scared by the unexpected and don't knock enough people out. all of this said..... by my patient game you will get those that hit a 2 pair, straight, flush draw etc. that perhaps a more aggressive stance would have eliminated. so it does have massive pitfalls. I often allow tiny pocket pairs to sneak in and hit the trips. but i have found that a lot of the monkeys would call any raise to see a flop so i guess it doesn't really matter. my best bit of advice is something that i have heard a few times... once you put some chips in the middle.... imagine that they were NEVER EVER in your stack to start with. that way you don't get twitchy if it looks like they are heading in another direction. sorry i can't be more help and that i don't tow the party line!!!! danno the patient renegade

I just wanted to say what Danno said... :clap :clap :clap :clap exactly my point of view as well

[danno375]

Re: much needed advice on mtt not doing me any good today couldn't hit a scruffy person in hull today and that is nearly impossible

[Penelopeys]

Re: much needed advice on mtt

not doing me any good today couldn't hit a scruffy person in hull today and that is nearly impossible

Well, at least u got the game down... I think... (u have 1 fan) :D

[robilaruk]

Re: much needed advice on mtt as Stevie said read harrington on hold-em volumes 1&2 - 2 is actually the better book because it deals exactly with your question! what to do in the middle/late stages of a tourney. HoH are the best books you will read on tourney play, your results will improve as for general advice - the lonnger the tounry runs the more playable cards become - for instance KJ from mid position is crap early doors, but with 10 people to go before the bubble it is a great hand to raise with, because people are scared of going out and will wait for a premium hand to call you - so you can pick up the blinds for another orbit, or if called have a chance to win a few more! similarly when on the FT - the blinds are killing you, so any Ax or two broadway cards or a PP become monsters, because you probably wont see anything better in the next orbit - so get your chips in first (calling with them is another matter and you will need to use your judgement). Firts in is the most important when dealing with marginal holdings, you have a better chance than when calling You will find that the game becomes coin flips (unless you have a huge stack) and don't be scared of shortie pushing at you, he/she is deperate and will push any Ax, Kx, broadway cards, connectors, 2 suited etc - their hand selection will be very large esp from the button/SB where people do actually shove any 2 (just think about what you shove when getting short stacked?) - I shove any old shite at this point if I have 8BB or less, rubbish like 83, 10 2, etc as I am only about a 60/40 dog against 2 higher cards, and if they have a PP then it wasn't your tounry anyway ;) The final point is are you interested in winning the tounry? if you seriously are then you have got to be prepared to play and lose your entire stack on every hand (that is the irony of good tounry play) and take your marginal holding and go with it - you cannot wait for a premium PP, they don't come along all that often :( so you have to develop the mindset of pushing your edges and sticking to your guns - so if you hit middle pair on a Q 9 2r flop with you having K9 then bloody well get your chips in the middle! remember that half the time the flop misses people, you can't be worried that the villian has QJ - if he has good luck to him, you still have outs to beat him. Of course you can wait and limp up the pay ladder and hope to get your premium hand to double up - that is another way to play and is also correct - its what you feel comfortable with, try different styles. The best people to bully with your big stack with marginal holdings are those with average stacks so you have 16000K average is 6K and shorties have 1000 (with blinds 100/200 or so) don't go after the people with 10-12K, they have chips to call you DO go after those with 6K coz they are comfortable and don't want to lose and go out yet and be prepared to call an AI againt a shortie if you have the right pot odds (anything above 2:1 in my case) and just play more :) Good luck Damo :cheers

at the moment im finding it really hard to move up a gear in the tournaments im getting enough chips but my hand selection is all wrong. today ive entered a £5 mtt on willy hill by level 8 i ad 16000 and was chip leader only to finish just outside the money:wall ive made quite a few final tables only winning once. im doin fine on the cash tables and stt's. can u give me some help on hand selection and betting im that unlucky in mtt's i got disconected in final 2 and got paid second!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Valiant23]

Re: much needed advice on mtt

For me playing in a tourney is about defining your aims. For example in the dollar up (SO) I just want to get as high as possible, so I play tight, but if the right hand comes along, well:nana (hopefully). My first aim is to avoid the arse-hole players, but at the same time have a comfortable stack (say double up), although I don't place much time restraints on it, as I'm here for the long-haul. The next stage (as well as still avoiding the 'lucky') is to fold a lot of cards, limp to the flop whenever possible (especially with small pairs - I will even go with suited A/K and rags dependant on position). Weigh up whether I call all-ins dependant on my assessment of the players. At the first break after your toilet break re-assess where you stand. A little stack may mean you just want to hang on and maybe limp into the money, an average stack/position you aim a little higher - BUT - If you have a large stack this is the toughest time of all, because if you aren't careful you will start to think you're Doyle Brunson and any cards will win for you (don't believe me, have a look at the leaderboard in the next tourney. I am 90% sure the guy who is leading will be lucky to get to the final table.). So with a big stack your aim is still the same (in my opinion). GET TO THE MONEY! Then re-assess everything above and the players on your table. Then keep doing what got you so far. You know how the prizes get bigger the longer you last? Aim for the nest stage and reassess. All of this analysis is vital, because it could be 3hrs down the line and you're bored or tired or want to go the pub. A common mistake made by a lot of MTT players is that the 'above average stack' mantra. I have seen it written by experts that you in order to play you need at least an average stack. Absolute bollocks! Offer me an average stack or AA and similar 3 times in the next half hour and I know which I'd take. The key is picking your moment to make your last stand. I saw on those % boxes that 55 is a 50% coinflip against.............. Q9s.:unsure What I would say is try and hang on for as long as possible. If the blinds are 2 hands away and you can't cover BB and SB and get 22, then go for it (maybe). Maybe the same with A and 8 or above even. If the blinds are gonna take half your stack then hang in there. How many times have you lost all but 50 chips, then been dealt AA or similar? The reason I am advocating survival is being 20th out of 20 is much better than being chip leader after an hour then blowing your stack (believe me I've done both). I have made a come-back and won a nice tourney when all I was doing for most of the night was surviving. Hope this helps though mate. :hope

can u give me some help on hand selection and betting

Unfortunately sherry (I don't know if others agree, here), hand selection and betting are extremely situational. What I would have said, though is with being chip leader, you can afford to only play the stronger hands, and not take too many risks. Getting to the final table should be your aim, cos I've never seen anyone win a tourney before then, so avoid marginal calls, and remember even the crap players get good cards ocassionally.

[ThePro19]

Re: much needed advice on mtt

Unfortunately sherry (I don't know if others agree, here), hand selection and betting are extremely situational. What I would have said, though is with being chip leader, you can afford to only play the stronger hands, and not take too many risks. Getting to the final table should be your aim, cos I've never seen anyone win a tourney before then, so avoid marginal calls, and remember even the crap players get good cards ocassionally.

I agree with this too. When I was chip leader in the DU a couple of weeks ago (had 20k to 2nd place's 10k), I never played a hand for the next 40 mins, either because it wasn't good or someone else raised before the flop and others called... not worth getting involved in as it wasn't a premium hand. If you have a big stack, protect it. Having said that, what I then found was that I was being overtaken and then you feel you must play something in fear of being blinded out. SO isn't so bad becasue there is not ante's, only blinds, but on Cryptologic sites for example, shortly after the first break ante's come into play and they do start eating into your stack pretty quickly. But, don't forget, the ante's are eating into other people's stacks too. I remember once playing a freeroll on Littlewoods (when they used to run them) and within about 20 mins I had got 15k in chips. I had twice as many chips as the next player. Unfortunately, I kept getting good starting hands, hitting, but then losing because someone would hit better (e.g. a straight to my 2 pair, or a flush to my straight, etc), and before long I was knocked out. You must be prepared to let good hands go.

[Pokerose]

Re: much needed advice on mtt This is a very useful thread:clap

[ubermonkey1]

Re: much needed advice on mtt

Unfortunately sherry (I don't know if others agree, here), hand selection and betting are extremely situational. What I would have said, though is with being chip leader, you can afford to only play the stronger hands, and not take too many risks. Getting to the final table should be your aim, cos I've never seen anyone win a tourney before then, so avoid marginal calls, and remember even the crap players get good cards ocassionally.

i agree totally about needing to asses everything .a lot depends on who is on your table(and their stack size) , your position in tourney and how near payout you are,use all thes things to your advantage.i tend to play only good cards at the start (usually semi agressive but depends on opponents)but will play the odd lesser hand when i can get a cheap flop,later if ive started well id keep to this strategy till getting near the money ,then id start bullying if im a high stack on the table, but not over the top just a few steals when others seem weak. you have to take the whole situation into the equation .on the final table its the same again ,dependant on prize structure +your stack+other players,should determine your play .try to not get to involved for the first few hands if your high stacked and get a feel for how the others on you table are playing ,then if its pretty tight start to bully ,if all hells breaking loose let em slug it out and wait for a big hand.