sherry009 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 i went on cash game on will hill 15c 25c with max buy in 25bucks on guy in corner has 147 bucks almost every hand he is raising to 4/5 dollers on a 15c/25c game under the gun i hold ak i decide to call he raises 5.50 preflop so i go all in he calls with aq i win and double up of him. but he gets his cash back by bullying all the others at he table. then i hold 9 10 suited i decide to raise to .75 in mid positon he reraises to 4$ now he his buggin me so i call flop comes 4 9 4 gives me top pair i bet 3$ he gos all in 100 sumit dollers well enough to clean me out im thinkin hes at!! i time right down and call hes holden kj off and misses i treble up off him but hes a sick player if you ask me.:puke but a brave call guess he was scandanavian at least he knew when his luck had ran out he left then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokerose Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: is this brave or sick play Imho, neither Brave nor Sick on your part.Foolish and bad play on his. Its no good waiting for the nuts to strike out against these players and an all in reraise on a flop like that would tell me he had nothing. Nh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: is this brave or sick play Obviously your opponent was clueless, or drunk, or tilting really bad, or something. But I'd still prefer to wait for something better than top pair no kicker to take on this guy for 400x bb bet. Even if he just had overcards (like he did) he's gonna beat you fairly often. Factoring in the pre-flop reraise he could have any overpair, plus he seems mental enough that he could even have a 4. I can see why you might fancy yourself a favourite, but even idiots get aces - if he's gonna keep playing that way I'm 100% confident I'm getting all his chips, and see no value in playing him with such a weak hand. Especially as players like that often simmer down when they drag a big pot, you want him pushing. I also wouldn't have raised 9T in the first place, you know he's gonna call so what's the value? you don't beat a randomly dealt hand (which is jack high) with 9T, and you're not going to be able to buy the pot from him if you miss because he's not bright enough to fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokerose Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: is this brave or sick play Personally, I disagree. If I am up against a maniac and a bully at the table I am unwilling to wait until I have a monster before I make my stand (Believe me, having seen KK go down to 10 3o to a maniac, thats not something I really want to repeat). I agree that to go in with nothing is foolish, but I think Sherry, having watched this players M.O. might have gathered that he might not have had very much, given his $100 reraise (although I don't want to put words in another players mouth, by any means). Sherry was ahead when the chips went in. Nicely done in my view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterplan Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: is this brave or sick play I've seen this style of play work very well in cash games, by inciting the types of bets you just made, with him raising so much every hand, it tended to make players think their top pair or even 2nd pair was ahead, so he would take players out every time he hit 2 pair or top pair, and those were the only hands he ever won, the few he lost due to overpockets were few and far between. i tried this style of play for myself on lower stakes table and found it had varying success, mostly because i valued my bankroll too highly so couldnt play agressively enough. in short, i avoid these players like the plague as i know from my own experience i get frustrated sometimes. however if you play with a cool level head like you seem to, playing against them can be HIGHLY profitable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: is this brave or sick play I wasn't suggesting he wait for a monster, just that 9T is an extremely weak hand - on that board it only beats a stone cold bluff. And it'll still eventually lose to a bluff a good percentage of the time. I recognise the logic of thinking that such a collosal overbet can indicate a bluff, but that read has to be right a very high percentage of the time to make those calls profitable with such a weak hand. It's a play that's consistent with tens, jacks, nines with a better kicker etc - and the guy may even be shrewd and be representing a bluff with a big hand. Those hands are all consistent with the preflop reraise, there's basically just loads of credible hands here that 9T is losing to. The fact that the guy is loose doesn't mean that he can't hit cards, or that he's reraising with nothing (even the loosest players tend to have a bit of something when they're reraising). Factoring all that with the fact that he should be confident he can take this guys chips with a real hand, I just don't see the value in calling a weak hand, which can only beat a bluff, and has a good chance of being outdrawn by overcards anyway. If you fold, he gets the message that you can be pushed off pots, and will keep pushing at you - it's trivially easy to make money in that game waiting for some kind of real hand. And if you call with something marginal like 9T it may even be a negative equity call even if you win because he'll give up on the idea that he can push you around, and you want to maintain a weak table image against players like this. Hope I didn't come accross as unduly critical though, was just throwing in my two cents since sherry posted the hand - congrats on a good read and a nice win :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: is this brave or sick play Sherry - nice hand and pot.:ok BUT A question for debate? Is it not possible that he is setting himself up as a muppet, for future 'meetings'? I ask as a tourney player, but I think I've seen references made to people joining a table and playing loose (shite poker) to cultivate an image, and then tightening up and playing properly. Be honest Sherry (and anyone else) - If you found such a big fish will you search him out again? You see in angling there is a practice (I think), where the fisherman goes to a pool at the same time as he plans on going fishing, and he chucks a lot of bait that he plans to use, then when he goes fishing this is normal, except this time their normal food is on the end of a hook. Is it called ground baiting or something? Now what if this muppet is doing that? Is it possible, or likely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokerose Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: is this brave or sick play I don't really play tourneys. So I can't speak from any experience. I do feel though, having played a zillion and a half hands (or maybe just what feels like some days:() in cash games, that actually, thats very unlikely. And its a very expensive way of drawing people in. People seem to start badly, maybe get better, maybe stay the same. But in my experience (and just mine, I'm not saying I'm right) a maniac is a maniac is a maniac. I think once they get the taste and make a few quid its hard for them to stop, Very few people stick out in my head, or alright, on my PC hitlist as behaving that way, and I always like to keep an eye out for them.( Just in case they're on a downwards spiral on a table.) And lo, 15xBB for small pocket pair. I think you'd have to be a very clever player with a very big bankroll to want to bother with that risk at the tiny limits I play - and even if you were, theres always the risk of Sherry beating you with 910o, right? :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: is this brave or sick play Personally, I would have done the same thing if I had been in your shoes right there... but I would have left the table before finding myself in that position. Don't want to play against muppets like that... the dollars I spend on poker matters to me, and it obviously didn't to him...:eyes ... pffff... those Scandinavians... Crazy people I tell you... stay away from them :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant23 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re: is this brave or sick play Thanks Pokerrose, I was wondering.:D :ok :ok :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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