Shorthanded and Heads Up advice.

[Zarathustra]

Blatant copy and paste coming at ya!!!! ***Edit: geared towards limit play I think*** Harrington on Holdem, not yet published, will have some ideas on heads up play so I hear. From Ramsey: I put the following thoughts together some time ago. They apply specifically to Head to head but should be germane to short handed: If you are going to takes your normal ring game strategy and apply it to Head-to-Head (h2h) play then you will probably be most successful if you are naturally aggressive. One of the biggest difficulties in adapting to h2h is in re-evaluating hand strength. For example you hold J7. In a ring game you would fold without thought. But h2h this represents an average hand. In other words if you are in the sb then there is a 50% chance that your opponent has a worse hand (J6 or T9 or worse). Players who are new to h2h are very likely to fold hands such as Q3 or even K5 not realising that they are actually quite strong. A second error that ring players make is to underestimate the value of the blinds. In a ring game you will not be too worried about winning say $3 in blinds when the average pot size is $60. However h2h the average pot size is likely to be $20 or less. The blinds are therefore far more important. A player who does not defend his blinds will quickly lose a lot of chips. An aggressive player will automatically take advantage of both these common mistakes. However the aggressive player will lose rapidly against an experienced h2h player even if the h2h player is the weaker player in a standard ring game. The reason for this is that when you are h2h it is easy to counter an aggressive player. You simply muck your poor hands early; reduce your calling requirements the appropriate amount and avoid getting into a raising war unless you expect to have the best of it. Similarly if your opponent is loose & passive then as an experienced h2h player you will reduce the use of semi-bluffs but bet far more for value and give extra respect to raises. In other words any playing style used in a ring game can be easily countered h2h. Successful h2h players don't have a fixed style but instead adopt whatever is required to counter the style of their opponent. Hence my lead-in - 'Play Your Opponent' Because it is h2h your opponent will sooner or later (hopefully later) realise that he is losing chips steadily and he will decide he is being too tight, or aggressive, or loose, or passive or whatever - and he will modify some of his betting patterns. At this point you have gained an important psychological edge and you are part way to your real goal - total psychological dominance. **** Forcing your opponent to play differently from the way he is used to, and is comfortable with, is the first stage to dominating your opponent **** The next stage is to make sure your opponent doesn't get off the hook. You have to be on the watch for changes in strategy, identify them quickly and modify your play to suit. As a simple example suppose your opponent has been playing very passively and has only raised from the sb with, as far as you can ascertain, premium hands. Now he raises from the sb twice in succession. It is possible that he has hit AA both times but it is best to assume that he is playing more aggressively. Reduce slightly your calling requirements. If he doesn't raise again for a while then it is probably a false alarm - go back to plan A. But if the raises continue to come more often than you would expect continue to lower your calling requirements. This prevents him from picking up the blinds as he was hoping to do. In effect this rapid changing of strategy is a bit like the well known game. If he picks stone you pick paper; if he picks paper you pick scissors; if he picks scissors you pick stone and on and on constantly keeping your opponent on the defensive. **** Preventing your opponent from having more than momentary success when he changes an element of his strategy is the second stage to dominating your opponent *** Another error that the normal ring player will make when h2h is to not realise the increased importance of the post-flop play. In a ring game it is very unusual for a particular post-flop situation to be repeated even approximately. However h2h there are relatively few betting sequences and the exact same situations will repeat over and over again. This allows the observant h2h player to quickly pick up accurate knowledge about his opponent and to spot weaknesses. For example what does a loose player do when he hits the flop big? Does he raise/check raise on the flop or does he wait until the turn? Either way you can use the information to your advantage. Similarly, what does the aggressive player do when he misses the flop completely. How does he react if you call on the flop and raise the turn? If he won't lay down a hand you are happy, if you can find betting sequences where he will consistently lay down his hand you are also happy; you have found a weakness you can exploit. You therefore need to be very observant after the flop to be able to analyse his normal play. You also need to use your betting (when you have options) to probe your opponent. For example your average opponent bets from the bb on the flop, you call. What does he do if you bet at him on the turn? Find a suitable situation (ie not a complete bluff) and try it! Every weakness you find you should aim to exploit. However judicious exploitation of his weaknesses can be more profitable long term. If your opponent does not know why he is losing then he may well modify part of his game which is working well and play even worse as a result. Again you must watch carefully so that you identify these changes as soon as they occur. **** Preventing your opponent from being able to identify why he is losing steadily is the third step to total dominance **** Even if your opponent modifies a weakness in his game, rather than a strength, the constant need to make changes will undermine his confidence. In addition, after sufficient changes his whole game is likely to fall apart. This is a bit like a piece of software. Initially the software is ok but has some bugs in it. When you fix a bug it improves that area of the software but it might well introduce unexpected problems elsewhere. As you make more and more changes so the cohesiveness of the whole goes down until you would be better off rewriting the whole thing. Of course with software you could take a long time testing the bug fixes first but your opponent can't do that h2h. Which brings up another major difference to ring games. When h2h you are totally involved in the game all the time - there are no breaks when you can fold your hand and watch your opponents play. The game is far more intensive and mentally demanding. You should use this to keep the pressure on your opponent. If you are losing then slow the pace of the game down, think about each action and be prepared to discuss hands when they are over (even ask for deck changes & set-ups - this is one time when it does have a benefit). If you are winning then put the pressure on by playing fast and not lingering between hands. A lot of opponents will just follow your lead. Especially as a loser tends to want to get on with the game quickly so that he can recoup his losses. If he is playing fast then he has less time to work out why he is losing. **** Keeping the game at a fast tempo when you are winning is the final step to total dominance**** By this stage your opponent should be shell-shocked. He has lost steadily from the start, he has made a lot of adjustments to his game and nothing has seemed to work, his confidence has gone and he is not getting a seconds respite. The steady trickle of chips your way should by now be an avalanche <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" />ffice:office" /><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif\\"' src="file:///DOCUME~1NATPET~1LOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_image001.gif"> You might expect that a player who starts losing a lot would quit quickly. My experience of h2h games (admittedly without a dealer) is that this is not so. Of course if you put several bad beats on him he may go on tilt and quit. But in the main you are winning by outplaying him and for some reason, probably due to the intensity and speed of the game, it is much harder to get out in this situation when you are losing. Normally the game will continue until either the winner insists on quitting or the loser runs out of money. Obviously when you are ahead you should do all that you can to keep the game going providing that you are dominating him. If things start to go right for him and he begins to recover confidence then find some pressing reason to quit (falling asleep at the table might work). If you play h2h for a while and you are not making progress then as said before slow the game down and think things through but be prepared to get out quick and with a small loss. Don't get caught up in the game. And finally there is no reason to go on tilt h2h. Think of each hand as just one move in a long game. Even if your opponent puts several horrendous bad beats on you in quick succession the chips lost and more importantly the chips not won are relatively few (compared to a ring game) and can quickly be recouped. The time to worry is when you are losing chips steadily without being outdrawn. -- ***************************** **************************** Shorthanded game Short Table Strategy by Abdul Jalib M'hall Short-handed tables tend to be heads up by the flop, and heads up play is a tremendously psychological game. Categorize your opponents and exploit their weaknesses, radically adjusting your play for the opponent. Against overaggressive players you should be passive-aggressive; be tenacious and let the overaggressive player bluff into you, shedding your passivity for aggressive counterattacks for value late in the hand. Against weak-tight players likely to fold, you should be overaggressive, but just be sure that they are really weak-tight, not passive-aggressive. Against passive-tenacious-loose players (i.e., calling stations), bet for value and almost never bluff. Do what you can to encourage them to continue to be predictable in one extreme or the other; for example, against chronic bluffers, don't embarrass them by forcing them to show their hand at the showdown. Against weak-tight players, cow them into submission with your glorious superiority (as long as you and they believe you are the superior player, you will be! Those tight-aggressive players, well, they are a problem, especially if they have loosened up appropriately for the short-handed game; you have no choice but to be tight-aggressive against them, and much of the below strategy emphasizes this approach. PREFLOP Yes, you should see more flops when short-handed. Don't get carried away with this, however, as you'll need good hands to support the semi-bluffing that you'll be doing later in the hand. Short-handed preflop play is nearly identical to late position play and play on the blinds at full tables when everyone folds to the last four players. (The only difference in theory is that there were not a bunch of people folding before, so in short-handed play the card distributions are uniform, whereas at a full table that has folded down to a few players the last few hands are more likely to contain aces and other high cards.) Review the late and blind position sections in Sklansky&Malmuth's _Advanced Holdem_ book, and see also their comments on heads up play and semi-bluffing and just about everything else. See also the FAQ. Attack the blinds by raising with any playable hand. A naked ace, which is a trouble hand at a full table, becomes a playable raising hand when short-handed. Kings with decent kickers are okay too. I tend to dump hands such as 86s, however, as I really don't want to get heads up with it, though if the blinds are likely to fold I might go for it. When short-handed, big unsuiteds are fine, while small suited connectors are trouble. When your blind is being attacked, call with most playable hands and reraise with the better hands (such as AQ, KQs, ATs, 88) to punish your opponent for raising your blind with his 86s. ON THE FLOP Heads up, an ace with a good kicker is often a value-betting/raising hand on a flop that completely misses it (i.e., no pair), even if the kicker is not an overcard, though proceed with caution if you get called (you have to hope your opponent is on a draw and that your ace high will hold up in the showdown or that you'll hit your ace or its big kicker on the turn or river.) When I say proceed with caution I don't really mean to check... although sometimes you can, much of the time you should be betting, betting, betting until your opponent shows you the error of your ways by raising you, and then you should often fold, not call. Giving free cards is not so dangerous heads up as at a full table, but showing weakness heads up can be a fatal mistake, so in addition to betting real hands that you could later get pushed off if a scare card hits, you should also usually bet your draws. If your opponent is showing strength by betting or raising you but you have an awesome hand that you are sure beats him or a weak but nonvulnerable hand such as ace bad kicker with an ace on the flop, then it's usually best to "rope-a-dope", that is, back off and just check and call, letting him defeat himself with his own strength. You can even do this with weaker hands such as middle pocket pairs, especially against overaggressive opponents. Although sometimes when out of position you will give the dreaded free turn card in this manner, this is really pretty rare, because your opponent does not wish to show his weakness by checking. Because betting is so important, you can nearly count on your opponent to bet if you check, and so you can and often should check-raise on the flop with as little as top pair or a good draw or less. Because you are often check-raising, it's okay to check your really crappy hands... you won't be giving your opponent a total license to steal. Generally bet your middle pairs heads up as if they were top pairs at a full table (especially with an overcard kicker, double so an ace kicker), generally check-raise the better hands such as a good top pair, and check-fold the hopeless hands. ON THE TURN If on the flop you bet and your opponent called, don't make the mistake of showing weakness by checking the turn, especially if you are going to fold if your opponent bets. It bears repeating: keep hammering until you are raised. Don't let a scare card slow you down. Remember, since you have just one or two opponents, it's much less likely that they are helped by a scare card than at a full table, and they are probably just as scared of the card as you are. Look out for bluff raises when a low card on the board pairs on the turn. If the flop got checked through, then you should often bet on the turn even if you don't have much. When out of position, it may appear to your opponent as if you attempted to check-raise the flop but failed and so now you are betting the turn with a real hand. When in position, and your opponent checks again on the turn despite your checking after him on the flop, well, it sure looks like he is just begging you to take the pot. However, if you have a really bad hand with no hope of winning in a showdown, you might want to save your cold bluff for the river, since you don't want to run a cold bluff on both the turn and the river, and you don't want to bluff on the turn and then concede on the river when you have no chance of winning the showdown yet aren't sure your opponent has a hand. When out of position and rope-a-doping a powerful hand by checking on the turn, you should almost always (check)raise if your opponent bets, because you are probably going to want to bet the river anyway, and so you might as well spring the trap now for that extra bet. Also, if you opponent is on a draw, he will pay that extra bet on the turn but not on the river (unless he makes his draw.) When out of position with a drawing hand and the turn gets checked through, then you should often bet into your opponent on the river regardless of whether or not you made your draw. And with position on the river, you should often bet if your opponent checks. Again, see S&M. If you check-raise on the flop, then bet on the turn and prepare to reevaluate/dump if your opponent raises you on the turn. However, your opponent with position on the turn may make a powerful play by raising you when he intends on calling on the river anyway, especially if he has an okay hand with some draws, even if he strongly suspects it is second best now. One can even do this raise on the turn with just a good draw or even as a pure bluff, though this would be risky if the other player showed strength by check-raised on the flop. Because when your opponent raises on the turn with position it may just be a semi-bluff, don't always dump your no-where-near-the-nuts hand... sometimes reraise! This reraise can be done for value with a hand as weak as top pair or it can even be done as a pure bluff against the right opponent at the right time. If you reraise on the turn and your opponent calls, then be careful on the river, as evidently he was not bluffing and either had a good hand or a good draw or a mediocre hand *and* mediocre draw. ON THE RIVER If you reraised your opponent on the turn, you have a good but beatable hand, and the river card is a flush or straight or pair scare card, then it's perfectly reasonable to check into your opponent with the intention of calling; you may induce a bluff from the poorer players here (your opponent would have to be dumb to bluff on the river when you reraised his ass on the turn, but you might as well give him the chance to make this mistake), and you may save yourself a bet if your opponent hit his draw. On the other hand, heads up often that flush or straight scare card will be just as scary to your opponent as to you, so sometimes you can bluff or value bet without worrying about getting hit with a raise unless you are beat. If you have a no-where-near-the-nuts hand that you want to showdown, then you can check, but if you opponent is likely to fold some hands better than yours (and that's very plausible given given your reraise on the turn) then you should often bet. More generally, if on the river you have a hand that you would agonize over calling if you check and your opponent bets, then usually you should bet, especially since you can easily fold it if you are raised. And that points to the fact that you can occasionally succeed in bluff-raising on the river with position. Don't try this too often though, but also remember that it has to work only a fraction of the time to be worthwhile. A bluff check-raise on the river can work too, but it's so tricky to pull off that it's almost not worth mentioning. SUMMARY Well that's off the top of my head. Again, I refer you to S&M for much more information than can be squeezed into a short article. Short-handed hold'em is a glorious game, where the skill factor really goes through the roof and your play should become much more probabilisticly mixed up and aggressive, including much more bluffing and semi-bluffing than at a full table. If you are a good full table player, you can help adjust your play to a short table by usually betting instead of checking and usually folding or raising instead of calling. That's good advice for full tables too, but it goes double for short-handed tables. When I post stuff like this sometimes readers think I'm being condescending or arrogant. Nothing could be further from the truth. If I post more than a terse response, then it's because I'm not sure of everything I'm saying, and I'm interested in learning more about the subject. I'm actually seeking feedback from you rec.gamblers, not lecturing you guys, so take it as a compliment and please go ahead and criticize what I said. ***************************** **************************** From Russ Georgiev Heads-Up Poker After thinking about what to write on this issue, I came to the conclusion that it would take at least a book for each particular game. This would be a great endeavor and would take a lot of time on my part. But as I say, "you have to start somewhere". The games that most of the people on RGP are most familiar with is Holdem. The weakest part of 99.99% of the players in the world is their heads-up game or short handed game. Basically three or less is short to me, though many consider the number to be 5. We will be dealing with heads-up play, my specialty, in all shapes, forms and sizes. Let me give you a small out-line about heads-up poker. The best players will dominate in a fairly short period of time. The best player will choose "pot limit' as their choice, since it is the most skillful way to play all these flop games. It is also the most skillful way to play 7 card stud also, 7 card stud high-low and Razz. Draw poker should be played in a No-lomit style, being it high or low. However, with proper ante structure and blinds, draw poker can easily be played in a limit format. The only game that really deserves to be played NO LIMIT is 5 card stud [no stripped deck]. This is a game where the best players can play for months at a time and not lose. On with the lesson for today. We will start with Limit Holdem, heads-up. First let me explain to you that people that are not excellent players will have a hard time understanding many of the concepts that I state. Concept one is this; you can play every hand in heads-up holdem and crush an opponent who is not as good as you. In fact, it may not be a bad idea to even play every hand against anyone, including WCP's. The main thing about heads-up play is the aggression and the control of the betting. People that play heads up make decisions that are lightning fast. Speed kills in this situation and the faster you can play and comprehend the situation the larger your advantage is over your opposition. A period of no longer than 50 hours should determine the best player in this game, no matter how lucky the individual is. Normally it would not take this long. Now I know you are asking the question already; how can you play every hand and win? I pose this question to you, what are you going to do with an opponent that raises every pot on the button and calls every raise when you have the button? Obviously we are not talking about idiots here. A person that sits and waits for a hand, like he is in a ring game, will soon find out he has lost numerous buy-ins in blinds. To fight a person who plays every hand, you must do the same thing. Swings will be very great, but the person who bets the best and reads the opponent the best will come out with all the chips. Think of heads up in this manner. What would happen if the game was played with the cards turned over, face up. Wouldn't some one want to bet on every card? Obviously if they turned their cards face up, you could see the advantage and thus bet. Some one would definitely bet every time. Same can be said when the cards are face down. When there is not a bet on one of the streets, either the person is setting up a check and raise for a double bet or someone is losing a bet with the best hand. The idea of the game is to realize when you have the best hand. Now this can't be done every time or even close to every time. However, to beat the opposition, all you have to do is be able to recognize when you have the best hand more often than he does. Not that difficult if you know what you are doing. Main thing of playing heads up is the control of the betting. Now, controlling the betting does not necessarily mean you have to bet every time. The concept of this is that when you want the money in the pot, it gets into the pot, and when you don't, there is no bet. It's that simple. But to accomplish this, it takes great skills. To begin with when playing heads-up, you determine the type of opposition you are facing. Is he aggressive, super aggressive, passive, tight, or will he battle every hand with you until the finish. Here is where the skill really comes in. The best player has more styles for offense and defense than you can possibly imagine. He can stop on a dime and accelerate to light speed in a split second. One thing you have to remember about heads up poker. You are not betting on making your hand. You are betting on the opposition NOT making a hand. Totally different from the way your understanding of the game has been taught to you. Random cards are what they are, random cards. Playing every hand is a reality you would face against many of the best limit holdem players in the world. How you play them is the difference. Obviously NO ONE can have a hand every time in poker. Here is where the jousting begins. Betting and raising, the key to controlling the game, in almost all situations. Here is the difference. Say you are both playing every hand. Say the hands come out with each winning the same amount, as theoretically it should, should you go to the end. Obviously the one that out bets the other will win the money. One of the keys here is not to make any pot too much different than any other pot. Put the same value on all of them. The winnings will be the times you get the opponent to give you a free card and the times you value bet him to get an extra bet. But it is not a perfect world and the cards don't break even. In heads-up, it really doesn't matter. The best players have so big an edge it is really incredible. For an experiment, try this one day. Raise the pot every time on the button when playing heads up. Check every time after the flop. Bet or raise every time on fourth street. See what your results are. In fact, try without looking at your cards, just don't let the opposition know you are doing this. See if they can adapt. Realize that any one that waits for a hand in a heads up situation will lose many blinds while waiting. Also, when he gets involved in betting, the opposition will know he has some thing and will be waiting to check- raise him and trap him, or let him win the minimum. Heads-up players that win, bet their own hands, they don't bet yours. You have to learn to do this yourself. Object of the game is to get the money called when you have the best of it and have free cards given to you with the worse of it. I wrote a post a while back called the rule of 7. This applies greatly in this game of limit heads-up holdem. Heads-up, is not a game for callers. callers will go broke quicker than they can pull the money out of their pockets. Feeler bets, those made on the flop, will give you some kind of information about the oppositions hand. Check raising is a major part of this game. Check raising with nothing is a major part of this game. This is why I have written that post about the rule of seven. In heads up, you must be prepared to bet with nothing as many times the plays are going to be nothing against nothing, with the one that does the betting the best winning the pot. Remember, the game of heads up poker is not to make hands. The game is betting your opposition is not making hands. Here is where position comes into play. As a rule of thumb, never 3 bet on the big blind in heads up holdem. As a rule of thumb never 4 bet on the button in heads up holdem. Think about what I just stated. Any one who three bets on the big button, will come out betting on the flop as he has already told you he wanted to establish dominance in the hand. He will come out swinging to either try and steal or continue with the play the hand he is representing. Either way, no matter what you have or had, you are setting him up. If you had Aces on the button, and did raise, and were reraised, do you think it would be smart to make it four bets? You are setting the victim up to bluff the pot or trap himself. Patience please. Same thing goes if you have Aces on the big blind and get raised. By calling, you are not telling the opposition anything and know he will attempt to steal it after the flop if he hasn't a hand or will bet it if he does have a hand. Here is where the trapping comes into play. Besides, I have told you that the object in limit is not to make any hands much different than other hands. Not having the opposition able to read your style is the difference between winning and losing. The key, is being able to have so many different styles that the opposition doesn't know how to combat it. All heads up players are aggressive. But in a horse race, the speed of the speed is the one to fear. However, do you always want to be the speed, if the pace of the game is fast enough? The answer is no. The name of the game is knowing how to bet to get the most information about a players hand. Sometimes it is best to lay off the pace and punish him in the last quarter of a mile, meaning the river. Remember, many things are a given in heads-up poker, just as in ring game poker. Expect a person who raises on the button to expect to bet when the flop comes high cards. Also expect that he is going to bet no matter what in this situation, or check to make you think he is sand bagging. Then when you check on fourth street, he comes out betting, knowing you have the image in your mind that he was trying to trap you. Remember, there are no gimmees. Playing poker means playing poker. Learning to adapt is the key to heads up play. The pot must be the right size that it is supposed to be when you win it. If it is over what it is supposed to be, give your self a high five as your opponent shall soon fall. Key to success at limit heads up holdem, is make all pots about the same as if you hold aces or a 7-2 off suit. By this I mean don't make the pots so big that it takes four or five to get the money back. Never underestimate the opposition. Better to over estimate him and adjust later on. For if you have to adjust, he is yours any way. Speed in playing is very beneficial to heads-up. Same as in many sporting events. Many opponents don't have the computer chips able to process the information as well as the best player. The faster you play, and I don't mean by betting or raising, but by making the moves, the less information the opposition gets to absorb. Some people will say they are tells, but this is BULLSHIT. It is a sense of how long the opposition takes to respond. It can only be a nano second, but it is not a tell. It is a gift for only the ones that have really paid attention to poker. A tell is some one who picks his nose when he has the nuts, or doesn't when he is bluffing. All these MORONS tell you they picked up a tell, but they never tell you what it is. I state, THEY ARE JUST GUESSING, and some of the time they have to be right. Just remember, the ones that are always in the position of calling are the ones that will lose. Yes, tells do exist, but not with WCP. If you never called and always lost your money betting, you would be far better off. As long as the decision is in the other corner, you are in control. You determine the percentage of bluffs and the percentage of times you are betting with the best hand. When they state they have picked up a tell in the high limits of professional poker, it is a bluff to vindicate why they called. Have you seen their hands when they call and they lose? If you had that information, then you could make an accurate analysis. The rule of the game is this, those who are calling will soon be losing. It takes a certain skill to even be in a position to have the opposition calling you all the time. If they are capable of doing this, they are capable of adjusting to less bluffing and having the opposition calling more with the worst hand. The edge is always with the bettor. For he can have the best hand, or the others may fold. This will be an ongoing series where I will answer sensible questions posed to me. I am not a writer. I do know one thing however, though I may not write well, I can outplay any writer that has ever lived. This has taken me many hours to write and I am getting tired. Sometimes I am in better spirits [get it, Dom Perignon] than other times [Moet Chandon]. But I am here to show you and let you be the judge. Math in heads-up, you be the judge. I am decent in math and most subjects. Far from the idiot these people tried to portray me as when I came on line. Remember, I do this for free, which may not be the brightest thing to do, but I have never claimed to be the most intelligent. I have claimed to be the best poker player, however. I will be writing about heads-up poker quite frequently from now on. I will go into all games, limit, pot limit and the rest. Patience please and feel free to ask questions. I must get at least 20 e mails a day when I am coming out with a book. I really don't care. I do this for free to have you people realize I am what I am [Popeye] and if it takes this to convince you who is the one telling the truth, so be it. Doesn't it amaze you that I get attacked by individuals that have literally no knowledge on the subjects I am writing. Where are the one that have some knowledge. In my pocket haha ---------------------------------------------------

[Zarathustra]

Re: Shorthanded and Heads Up advice. Here's something else from the back of Ciaffones book: All assuming allin preflop, represents average hands. Players/%/unsuited/suited. 2/50/q2,j6,t8/j3,t6,97 4/25/33,k5,q6,j7/q3,j5,t6,97 7/14/22,a3,k5,q7/q5,j6,t6,97,87 10/10/33,a4,kt,qj/q3,j4,t5,96,86 there are some problems with these numbers but it works as a rough guide.