GeordieGaz Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Ok, this hand has been bugging me all last night and all today. I know I made a few mistaked throughout the hand, however, I'm wondering if the worst mistake was the final one. This is the scenario.. Black Belt Poker tourney at the vic. I have around 110k chips (blinds 800/1600 200a) Avg is 60k. I'm quite comfortable with my table and I'm gradually building my stack when a guy comes and sits two seats to the right of me with around 250k!!! I tell myself that I'm not going to get involved with him at all, I don't need to as I can get my chips playing position and the players to my left are quite passive. However, this didn't go to plan :wall. We play 3 orbits and this guy is very aggressive, however he's too aggressive and has lost about 70k so is down to 180kish. I'm BB and it is folded round to the button (mr chip daddy!). He flat calls as does the small blind. I look down at :Ac: :4c: and can't help myself so try to take the pot down with a raise of 5k(biggest mistake of hand, OOP with chip daddy). Mr chip daddy calls quite quickly, great!, just what I didn't want but I'm determined not to let him bully me. The flop comes down :4h: :9d: :Ks:, I bet 7k and he flat calls. The turn comes down the :Kh:, I check (maybe a mistake?) and he fires out a bet of 5100 :unsure, I look at the pot and see that it is over 25k so I figure I gota call so I do. Now, this is where it gets interesting. The river comes down the :4d:, I now have the full house. I decide that I'm going to check-call, so I check but then this guy fires out a bet of 65k :eek. The pot is nearly 50k and he's overbet that. I certainly didn't expect that. What would be the correct play here? Do I make the call or do I just give it up as there'll be better opportunities? I went into the tank for about 5mins with this hand. I'll not say what I decided to do just yet but would like to know what people would do on the river here. I know I've made a mistake getting involved with him, but as soon as I said to myself that I wouldn't get involved with him, I knew it would inevitably happen! :$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioArca Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Re: Big Chips v MASSIVE Chips... Fold, a hero call might look very embarrassing here :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaulc Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Re: Big Chips v MASSIVE Chips... i am calling, he has King with a low kicker,probably a 2 or 3 and has made trips on the turn (just to say i havent spoken to Gaz about this),and he is seeing weakness in your betting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted March 14, 2010 Author Share Posted March 14, 2010 Re: Big Chips v MASSIVE Chips... i am calling' date=' he has King with a low kicker,probably a 2 or 3 and has made trips on the turn (just to say i havent spoken to Gaz about this),and he is seeing weakness in your betting.[/quote'] If he has King Al, he's beating me with a higher full house! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaulc Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Re: Big Chips v MASSIVE Chips... If he has King Al' date=' he's beating me with a higher full house! ;)[/quote'] ooops didnt reads that right did i? okay still making the call but he dont have a king :dude:dude he has AQ,AJ or small pair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Re: Big Chips v MASSIVE Chips... Didn't you do similar in another live tourney gettin - involved oop with big chips? Anyhow, yep played bad but its too late your in now and the way it reads he has air on the river and you should call but I cannot tell for sure as I dont have enough info on this guy. I would play similar in his position with 98 of hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted March 14, 2010 Author Share Posted March 14, 2010 Re: Big Chips v MASSIVE Chips... Didn't you do similar in another live tourney gettin - involved oop with big chips? Probably. Can't help myself when I got chips. I said to Alan yesterday that I'd rather play a tournament short-stacked throughout. Something I deffo got work on. Having said that, I feel that when I get a stack I am aggressive with that which can work both ways. It worked quite well for a while yesterday until mr chip daddy arrived!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Re: Big Chips v MASSIVE Chips... Thing is on the turn he knows you have at least 1 pair when you c/c so his bet on the river is trying to bluff you off the 9 or he has the FH. He's bet 1/3 pot on turn with the flush draw out there and paired board looks often to me like value betting so his overbet on the river is a value bet but with a K or a 9? Pretty much a coin toss, i'd go with my gut combined with how quickly they acted on each street post flop but i probably call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhornet Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Re: Big Chips v MASSIVE Chips... Very tough situation, but I think I would call. I think he has something, maybe a 9, and is representing the full house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Re: Big Chips v MASSIVE Chips... Probably. Can't help myself when I got chips. I said to Alan yesterday that I'd rather play a tournament short-stacked throughout. Something I deffo got work on. Having said that, I feel that when I get a stack I am aggressive with that which can work both ways. It worked quite well for a while yesterday until mr chip daddy arrived!! A common fault one of my best poker buddies used to have was getting chips and then blowing up but he solved his riddle to why it happened and you have mentioned it in this thread. He went on and cant stop winning tournies now :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlydaveLDN Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Re: Big Chips v MASSIVE Chips... I don't even think it's really discussing post-flop. This hand demonstrates exactly why a solid pre-flop strategy is so important in shortstacked (ie tournament) poker. Play the hand well pre-flop and you probably don't have any tough decisions to make later in the hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nade Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Re: Big Chips v MASSIVE Chips... Was thinking about this more last night and came to a conclusion but forgot until just now :tongue2 It looks as if big chip guy doesn't want to get involved in a big pot in this situation any more than you do as shown by his limp pre flop he didn't want to get 3bet and be in a tough spot in a big pot vs you. This is then flipped on it's head on a double paired board - he now wants to create a big pot so it seems like a clear fold now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaulc Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Re: Black Belt Poker - London Live 12-14 March 2010 managed to find 1 photo of meself, cant remember what was going on at the time though,any guesses at what Neil Suarez was pointing too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 Re: Black Belt Poker - London Live 12-14 March 2010 not sure what he's pointing at Alan, but he's "Mr Chip Daddy" in my Strategy thread. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaulc Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Re: Black Belt Poker - London Live 12-14 March 2010 not sure what he's pointing at Alan' date=' but he's "Mr Chip Daddy" in my Strategy thread. :ok[/quote'] ah,he saying to you -- you going down son :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Re: Black Belt Poker - London Live 12-14 March 2010 not sure what he's pointing at Alan' date=' but[b'] he's "Mr Chip Daddy" in my Strategy thread. :ok In that case I snap-call with the small house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Re: Black Belt Poker - London Live 12-14 March 2010 In that case I snap-call with the small house. GG, That isn't a comment on your play. It's just that against that player, as played, I would've called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 Re: Black Belt Poker - London Live 12-14 March 2010 GG, That isn't a comment on your play. It's just that against that player, as played, I would've called. He was deffo the type who would try that move but I'm guessing you have more info on him than me? :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Re: Black Belt Poker - London Live 12-14 March 2010 He was deffo the type who would try that move but I'm guessing you have more info on him than me? :unsure Yeah played him a number of times at the Vic. Will totally ruin your rythym if you don't know him. He could be floating on the flop and take it off you later. He will definitely fire two/three bullets with a bluff. He would also play hearts like that too. He would definitely raise you with a K. Flopping big a possibilty (set) but you're good vs so much of his range. I won't go into the pre-flop play, you know what you did wrong there, especially against said player, but I think I c/r the turn. It's certainly a tough one, he is tricky so I think you have to call. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Duke Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Re: Black Belt Poker - London Live 12-14 March 2010 not sure what he's pointing at Alan' date=' but he's "Mr Chip Daddy" in my Strategy thread. :ok[/quote'] He's basically pointing at the big fight later and stating im taking you and clotty to the cleaners me old mukka :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieGaz Posted March 16, 2010 Author Share Posted March 16, 2010 Re: Big Chips v MASSIVE Chips... I decided to fold the hand as the bet was just too much for me to call. My thinking was that he was overbetting the pot to make it look like a bluff when in fact he did have the goods, He showed me the :6d: after I'd folded, however he had to check both cards to see which one he wanted to show me. That suggests to me that he may have actually had the King. I may be wrong. I guess we'll never know what he had, however I learnt a vital lesson from this and know not to get myself in a tricky situation like that again. :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy the punter Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Re: Big Chips v MASSIVE Chips... I decided to fold the hand as the bet was just too much for me to call. My thinking was that he was overbetting the pot to make it look like a bluff when in fact he did have the goods, He showed me the :6d: after I'd folded, however he had to check both cards to see which one he wanted to show me. That suggests to me that he may have actually had the King. I may be wrong. I guess we'll never know what he had, however I learnt a vital lesson from this and know not to get myself in a tricky situation like that again. :ok Then it's 46, K6 or A6. Not it makes the call very marginal, more so than it was. Like you say, the important thing in this scenario is knowing how to prevent it happening again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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