Champions League 30th September

[SpiritOf67]

Wednesday 30 September 2009	Home	Draw	Away	BPP
	CSKA Moscow v Besiktas JK (17:30 BST)	1.75	3.85	5.9	100.07 %
	AC Milan v FC Zürich (19:45 BST)	1.24	7	19	100.19 %
	APOEL v Chelsea (19:45 BST)	13.5	5.2	1.36	100.17 %
	FC Bayern München v Juventus (19:45 BST)	2.2	3.5	3.85	100.00 %
	FC Porto v Atlético Madrid (19:45 BST)	2	3.7	4.2	100.84 %
	Girondins de Bordeaux v Maccabi Haifa (19:45 BST)	1.29	6	15.5	100.64 %
	Manchester United v VfL Wolfsburg (19:45 BST)	1.38	5.5	11	99.74 %
	Real Madrid v Olympique Marseille (19:45 BST)	1.25	7	15.5	100.74 %

Also like the look of Porto @ 11/10 with PaddyPower. Atletico Madrid have had a dreadful start to La Liga and have yet to win a game. Off-field problems have affected the team on the park and they sit 3rd bottom and failed to beat Cypriot side Apoel Nicosia on matchday 1. They salvaged a draw away to Valencia yesterday evening with a late equalizer which may give them a boost but Porto come off the back of a morale boosting win themselves over Sporting Lisbon and played very well for large periods of the match at Stamford Bridge. Porto knocked Atletico out at the last 16 stage last year when both teams were on top of their game, with the visitors off form and low in confidence Porto will be confident of putting them to the sword once again. These two teams look like fighting it out for second spot and Porto will see this as a great chance to get their first win of the section at the Dragao. CSKA Moscow also appeal at 8/11 to get their first points on the board against a woefully out of form Besiktas side. The visitors have amassed just six points from six games and are well off the pace and sit 15 points behind leaders Fenerbahce. They will struggle away from their home cauldron and CSKA will see this as a must win if they want to escape from this group behind Man Utd. A few speculative ones in there where the odds look tempting but CSKA and Porto could have the makings of a good double. With Arsenal getting some players back fit such as Arshavin & Rosicky and their excellent home form in this competition I'd also expect them to cover the -1 handicap at home to Olympiakos at 4/5. Arsenal have an easy group here and will want to qualify as quickly as possible.

[fkiely]

Re: Champions League » Sep 29/30 Nap this week has to be Porto at home to Athletico at 10/11. Porto are currently enjoying a good run domestically while Athletico’s problems are well documented.

Bayern at home to Juventus at 11/10 also looks tempting what with their respective domestic forms. Bayern have looked very dangerous recently, especially at home and van Gaal seems to be getting the best out of his team. After their impressive start, Juve seem to be faltering a bit recently.

I also wouldn’t rule out Trezeguet to continue his scoring streak with a goal at anytime.

Other bets that take my fancy for this week:

Inter @ 8/11

Standard Liege @ 7/2

Fiorentina – Liverpool draw @ 12/5

CSKA @ 8/11

AC Milan – Zurich draw @ 5/1

Zurich @ 13/1

Wolfsburg @ 15/2

Sevilla @ evens

[ReasonableGuy]

Re: Champions League » Sep 29/30

Event	Bayern - Juve
Selection	draw
Strength	10/10
Date	29/09/2009
Bookmaker/Price	5Dimes @ 3.45 (Back)
Reasoning	I think Juventus are strong enough this season to get at least a draw today. Bayern, I think only needs to qualify. I think probably both matches will be draw ended and till the end of the matches (group matches) both teams don't really know wheather is better to finnish first or second. Still early in the stage and Bayern doesn't want to lose it here as they have got 3 points from away win last round. Juve has only 1 point and they might want to get here at least a point. A draw would be convinient. Probably it will be an exicting match with some goals. Something like 2-2.

[nicko]

Re: Champions League » Sep 29/30 Standard Liege were rightfully mentioned as being attractive at these odds. In this case then I find it attractive to follow how will the AH line move in Real Madrid - Marseille. At the moment Marseille + 1,75 is around 1,90 - I expect Real today and tomorrow to become part of thousands of accumulators. If I can get the same for + 2 AH, THEN WE MIGHT BE HAVING A GOOD OPPORTUNITY. I am not going against favourites, rather avoid them. In Madrid though we are having (on paper) the second-best team in Spain hosting the second-best French team. I am aware the new buys in Real indicate their President wants everything this season, in Kaka' and Ronaldo great quality was added to an excellent club. Still: -- in the Spanish threads here so far this season punters often discussed that not much quality was added in defense. Real do not have their Ferdinand and Vidic, for instance. In order to give room to all the star forwards I expect to see this season some weird rotations in front of Casillas. -- Real so far compensate the lack of quality at the back with great striking force. 4 clean sheets in Primera rather indicate too much effort from opposition trying to limit Madrid's mighty offense. One and one only team so far came out on the pitch with attacking approach and playing simply what they usually play ( Deportivo La Coruna ), and Real were clearly nervous. I saw cracks in defense against Tenerife, not to mention Zurich. -- Real is just repeating the case of Inter - a megalomaniac President buying everything that so far only guarantees franchise sales, on a bigger scale of course as of the Americas. Again here, in the Spanish thread Real's Manager was called a puppet as President and Director do even the squad. How true that is I don't know, but I still rate the English clubs and Barca higher for winning CL. -- my thinking goes further - if La Coruna and Zurich could break Real's defense a couple of times, why shouldn't Marseille, who clearly have by far more quality. Digging in their own half won't help much vs Real's forwards, but moving the defense line some 15 metres forward will clearly frustrate hosts ( as in the game vs La Coruna ), giving closer chances for breaks. Fact is Marseille have more upfront than all teams Real faced so far, AND they have nothing to lose at Bernabeu as odds suggest. -- I do not rule out a convincing win by Real, but Marseille are title contenders in another top 5 European League. They did almost nothing in CL after winning the first one, but on a good day they got everything to upset anybody ( L'pool at Anfield ) AND the team is better than last season. And what exactly did Real do in the last few CL seasons? Goal/Goal is another option here, but it is ever so low in view of the odds for Marseille ( 12,00 ). At similar odds for the away team with La Coruna odds were 2,00 for Both to score, and Depor scored two. At 1,72 for Goal/Goal two things come to mind - first, both bookies and exchanges are aware that Real at the back are not convincing despite all the clean sheets ( Xeres, Espanyol, Tenerife, Villareal ). Second and obvious, everyone takes for granted that Real to score is guaranteed - from this angle 1,72 is generous as it only backs the chances of Marseille to score. Now this particular line will be moving up quickly in-play if Marseille are quiet in the first 20-25 mins. Off the record, take Casillas out, and I would take this 1,72 as a gift :) Just some thoughts, won't be considering this until tomorrow, but AH lines deserve some monitoring here... GL

[ChrisUK]

Re: Champions League » Sep 29/30 Wolfsburg vs Manchester game is really intresting..man united defence has conceded ahell of alot of goals ovet the last few games and wolfsburg strike force is on good form aswell..maybe both teams to score looks a good opition here? i was also thinking the same with rangers vs sevilla game, sevilla won away on the weekend to bilbae which are a good team so sevilla must of played some good football plus rangers been in strange form reciently but are home team in SCOTLAND on a big day for them..both teams to score? maybe wait for team news but seems like a good one..what do you think?

[akcaig]

Re: Champions League » Sep 29/30 Real Madrid v Olympique Marseille I had a look and nobody had posted up about Real as yet, so I'll do the honours. Real's home opener Real Madrid will come out all guns blazing in my opinion to try and rack up a big win here in front of the sold out home crowd at the Bernabeu, who can put a lot of pressure on opponents. Marseille looked error-prone in the defeat against Valenciennes, a team which they should have beaten given the ability in their squad. And Real Madrid is a totally different proposition - especially away from home. Tactician Pellegrini Here Real will name a full strength team, and Pellegrini is a shrewd tactician who will not make tactical errors - it is up to Real's players to win the match and I think they will do so comfortably. I don't think the match is so one sided that it will end 5-0 but I think a score of 2-0, 3-0, 3-1, or 4-1 is quite possible given the gap in both sides ability. Real's offensive power Marseille's front line of Niang, Morientes, Ben Arfa and Lucho are great players and can give Real Madrid some bother, but it's the explosive power in Real's attack, that gives them an unrivalled potency in the final third of the pitch. Ronaldo, Kaka, Higuain, Benzema, Raul will all take part in this match at some stage and against such attacking talent it looks unlikely that Marseille's defence, which has looked shaky at best against some poor opposition this year, will hold up. Real too haven't been the best on defence, and haven't really been tested, having only played out of sorts Villarreal, and far less capable Tenerife, Xerez, and Zurich. But the talent is indisputable, and every day the team clicks better and better. Marseille not performing to potential Remember that Marseille lost at home against Milan 2-1, a team which is in one word, horrible, this year. Didier Deschamps said before and after the game 'Milan are playing badly this year, but Milan is still Milan'. Yes, Monsieur Deschamps, Milan is still Milan, and REAL MADRID is still REAL MADRID, and this is a hugely confident, on form, enthusiastic and excited Real Madrid. Marseille couldn't beat Bordeaux, arguably the strongest French team, on their home turf the Velodrome, so why would they beat a resurgent Real Madrid at the Bernabeu? In my opinion, we can't over think this match and introduce so many complicated factors like the potential of Marseille's forwards, when its clear they haven't been delivering anywhere near that this year, and the offence failed in both of their serious tests, against Bordeaux (1-1 at home) and Milan (1-2 home defeat). Real Madrid highly motivated Not gonna be a huge blowout, but keep in mind also that president Perez and Di Stefano and all the other grand poobahs of Real and the government will be present at the Champions League home opener of the new 'Galacticos' superstars - incentive to win if there ever was one. Real will want to storm out of the gates and clean up in the group stages as quickly as possible - the Champions League is the priority. My pick, Take Real on the -1 (non Asian) handicap at 1.72~ Take Real to win 1.24 GL.

[I need money!]

Re: Champions League » Sep 29/30 Hmm... For starters, I agree on Standard. Also think that Sevilla will win in Scotland. Rangers is not a very strong side, they are mediocre at best... Sevilla is very superior in technique, speed and individual quality, and I don't think Rangers can cause some problems for Sevilla's defence so.... Away win. CSKA Moscow - Besiktas home win. The away team is very poor this season, and you all also know about turkish teams poor performances abroad... And I also fancy Porto this week. Atletico is in a poor form currently and Porto, on the other hand, is in a great form. They were even unlucky to lose in London two weeks ago! So, home win! And maybe Inter Milan in Russia. Better team, better coach, far more experience in Europe games... Good luck mates!

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: Champions League 30th September Away you go for tomorrow. :ok

[bagehot]

FC Porto vs Atlético These two teams met last year for the last 16, Porto advancing courtesy of away goals in Madrid but really they should have made sure earlier and Atlético could thank an inspired Leo Franco in goal. Franco has since moved to Galatasaray and this is undoubtedly good news for Porto... Porto are still trying to find their feet this season, they have shown bits of good football, including in the 1st round in London, but it's still early to tell how far this team can go. Important absences in the Porto side for tomorrow: holding midfielder Fernando saw a red against Chelsea and Varela and Rodriguez are both injured. Porto looked good for 60 minutes against Sporting on Saturday, should have wrapped it earlier. Falcao scored the decider, look for him to pose danger for Atlético too. I suspect Jesualdo Ferreira will tread this game rather carefully as he realises the offensive danger posed by individual Atlético players. I think Evens for Porto at home is slight value, but I'm more confident on a low scoring affair. In any case I wouldn't risk large stakes given the important missing players for Porto.

[YAMAN]

Good Luck All ! CSKA Moscow v Besiktas Besiktas is neither a very bad nor a very good team to say X2 is the safest bet or CSKA win is a banker. Besiktas is a good team, thats a fact. Good... Thats all... But to get a win in Moscow they should not only be a good team or good fighter but also a team that scores. According to one of the newspaper, the trainer of Besiktas, very experienced and one of the legendary coaches of Turkey, Mustafa Denizli announced that if they wont win he will resign. If this is true and so far no opposite info given, I would say he knows smtg that will suprise us all tomorrow. I strongly believe that physcology has a big effect on the players and the team as well as the coach. And if that team is a Balkan or Mediterenian teams such as a Turkish, Greek or a team from southern Spain, than this physcologhy converts itself to a motivation. This doesnt always work ofcourse but its a plus. Besiktas lately playin g good but not getting the results and it came to a point finally after the latest losses that a reaction is expected any moment. This game is a perfect canditate for that. First of all CSKA is not a world beater and barely as strong as before. On the other hand both of the teams lost their first games and will be aiming to win tomorrow. Some people may think that a draw wont be so bad for Besikas which is not wrong, but, If Besiktas wants to get a result here, they should score since it is almost sure that they will concede with the defence they have againts a CSKA who wants to win. At this point my main bet of the day shows itself. We have 2 teams in need of points and we have 2 teams lost their firts games and we have a team in the edge of exploding. Under these conditons, I cant expect a boring or cautious aproach. It is so clear for me that this game smells goals and the odds given is very good consedering the mentioned facts. Over 2.5 Goals @2.07 - 8/10 Slobet Bayern Munich v Juventus No need to say that this is football and anything can happen. So, nothng should be a suprise, unexpected result here. Especiall when 2 teams in such a similar and equal quality meets. Under the light of this fact, consedering that the game will be in Germany, I expect a draw. I think, because of the variables and the conditions we have for today, if these 2 team meets 100 times in this conditions, 90 of them would be draw. Juve has slighty have a better quality and after the draw against Bordeaux, they should be doing all they can to take point/s from Munich. They also got a unlucky and unexpected draw in the last league game which makes me believe that we should expect any reaction soon which will be in this match I believe. On the other hand, Bayern is not the same trustable Bayern I got used to seeing in previous years. No doubt they have a very experienced coach Van Gaal and plenty of quality players. But, I still cant see the ex Bayern force so far. Playing at home and the quality of the team will surely good enough to avoid loss but I doubt they can beat the Juve when Juve needs the point/s more where a reaction is expected ! I strongly believe that the catch point of the game is the fact that Juve needs a positive result more than Bayern. If any team can manage to win, Juve is closer to be the one for me. To conclude, this game is locked to be draw for me. I can neither see Bayern losing at home nor Juve leaving the field with a loss. Whatever will be the outcome of the game, I will have a strong inner peace of chosing this bet since all the facts points the draw for me. Draw @ 3.41 Slobet - 7/10

[Flotschi]

Re: Champions League 30th September i made a X2 on bayern vs. juve...still got a 1.75 :)

[Melbourne]

Re: Champions League 30th September Just had a nibble on the draw between chelsea and apoel @ 5.25 Tough to beat in nicosia, and if they can hold out for the first 15-25 i can see it being really tough for chelsea to break down APOEL in front of a passionate home support in Nicosia. Also they have just one win in their last eight away trips in Europe, a surprisingly poor record given their undoubted class. Under 0.5 is always a risky bet, but at 11.20 i'd consider a small punt on that too or under 1.5

[DoMiNuS]

Re: Champions League 30th September after the bad evening yesterday i expect today to be a more productive day. odds on most of the favourites are low but they can be put together into a nice accumulator - i fancy Bordeaux, Real Madrid and Man U all to win their home games. in all the games i think it will be all about class difference and these teams should have no problems to get the 3 points. Real Madrid are on fire right now - they are going very well in La Liga winning all their matches and with goal difference 16:2. Team moral is high and as fas as im aware there are no serious injury problems in the team. Marseille on the other hand dropped on performance in the last several games so i dont think they will be able to do anything agains Real Man United - despite the non convincing start of the season for them they are improving with every game they play and getting the results they need - not that convincing as expected but thats not that important when you get what you need. Well, today i think it will be the same - they need a win and expect them to get it no matter how Bordeax - i have no real arguments about them but knowing more or less the team of Haifa i dont expect the visitors to be able to get something here. Gl all

[1907zico]

Re: Champions League 30th September I like the odds for Wolfsburg to score by penalty and will back them 1/10 @17. Dzeko and Grafite are more than capable of getting penalties and the odds are tempting :loon

[rleague_punter]

Re: Champions League 30th September Hey boys i know you all get asked this 1000 times but please if someone can be bothered explaining it for me 1 time. The difference between Asian Handicap -1.5 and Handicap -1 My interpretation is Asain handicap means the team needs to win by 2 goals or more for me to win, while Handicap you either get half your bet or is a no bet????? Thankyou please someone help

[rleague_punter]

Re: Champions League 30th September

Hey boys i know you all get asked this 1000 times but please if someone can be bothered explaining it for me 1 time. The difference between Asian Handicap -1.5 and Handicap -1 My interpretation is Asain handicap means the team needs to win by 2 goals or more for me to win, while Handicap you either get half your bet or is a no bet????? Thankyou please someone help

Sorry typo if my team wins by 1 then i get half my bet or is a no bet???? :cheers

[sharpshot7]

Re: Champions League 30th September

Hey boys i know you all get asked this 1000 times but please if someone can be bothered explaining it for me 1 time. The difference between Asian Handicap -1.5 and Handicap -1 My interpretation is Asain handicap means the team needs to win by 2 goals or more for me to win, while Handicap you either get half your bet or is a no bet????? Thankyou please someone help

Asian -1.5 ....team needs to win by 2 or more for you to win Asian -1 .....win by 2 or more goals = you win.win by 1 goal and you get your money back. Its only when you start doing -0.75,-1.25 that half wins/losses start happening. It really is easy to use once you get the hang of it.

[Tulenos]

Re: Champions League 30th September

Asian -1.5 ....team needs to win by 2 or more for you to win Asian -1 .....win by 2 or more goals = you win.win by 1 goal and you get your money back. Its only when you start doing -0.75,-1.25 that half wins/losses start happening. It really is easy to use once you get the hang of it.

I guess he's asking about AH -1.5 and "European" handicap -1 - these two are absolutely the same - it's only AH -1 where you get the whole stake back if the team wins only by one goal.

[rleague_punter]

Re: Champions League 30th September Thankyou boys

[dak]

Re: Champions League 30th September

Bayern Munich – Juventus: Bayern Win @ 2.12 (Betfair) 10/10 Both teams, I think, have a few issues to work out. They haven't been that convincing. Juventus stands in better shape in Serie A (2^nd place – one point out) than Bayern's standing in the Bundesliga (7^th – 6 points out). They both have their share of injuries to cope with in this match. For me, the scales will tip in Bayern's favour tonight for a few reasons. First, I consider Bayern a faster and more physical team than Juventus. Juventus will, no doubt, try to frustrate Bayern but I think the hosts have enough offensive solutions to score. I don't think Juventus will be able to last 90 minutes against a more physical team. Second, Bayern's less than convincing performances come from a league that I rate as better than the Italian League. Third, the home field advantage will be important tonight. With Bordeaux in this group the issue of qualification becomes complex. The last thing Bayern wants is to need to get points against Bordeaux and Juventus in Turin. A win tonight and a likely home win against Maccabi will just about clinch qualification for the German team. So, I believe Bayern will do their business and claim a win in what should be a tight game. Porto – Atletico Madrid: Porto Win @ 1.95 (Betfair) 10/10 Porto's performance tonight may be affected by some injuries, but I think they are a more solid team and should claim the win. Porto's performance against Chelsea (lost 0-1) was very good and they may have been unlucky not to have gotten something from that encounter. Porto's overall performance at home is very good and Atletico isn't known as a force in its travels. Furthermore, Atletico's defense is laughable. They have plenty players who can do the job offensively, but in defense they are sloppy. The Porto passing game can tear up this type of defense. Finally, Porto knowns that Atletico is their direct rival for qualification and a slip against them at Dragao will create big problems for them. Look for Porto to take all three points tonight one way or another.

[JackJarvis]

Re: Champions League 30th September Chelsea are a ridiculous price at 1.40 they really are. They are without Ballack, Mikel, Drogba & Bosingwa tonight. We don't know much about Nicosia but they played well in holding Atletico 0-0 away from home a few weeks ago and their home record is formidable. Chelsea are known as poor travellers and you have to take the home side on the AH tonight. If Chelsea win, I suspect it will be 0-1 but I wouldn't underestimate the home side at all in this one. APOEL +1.5 AH @ 1.83 VCBet

[JackJarvis]

Re: Champions League 30th September Again I am going against the grain here and this time I think Man Utd are terribly overrated at home to Wolfsburg. United battled to a very lucky 1-0 win away at Besiktas a few weeks ago and although they should win this at home, Wolfsburg have a magnificent front line in the shape of Edin Dzeko & Grafite who combined for a total of 54 goals in the league last year. United have looked a little vulnerable on occasions this season so far and they are worth taking on with the Germans on this line. Wolfsburg +1.25 AH @ 2.11 Paddy Power

[Limitlezz]

Re: Champions League 30th September I am keen to know if anybody else shares the oppinion that the Manchester United vs VfL Wolfsburg match will be +2.5 goals? I dont think that Manchester United will be happy with 1 goal and I think that the germans should be able to score against them. Most likely it would end 2-1 in my eyes but I would like to have more oppinions on it? so is +2.5 highly plausible?

[Smooth Jimmy]

Re: Champions League 30th September

Hey boys i know you all get asked this 1000 times but please if someone can be bothered explaining it for me 1 time. The difference between Asian Handicap -1.5 and Handicap -1 My interpretation is Asain handicap means the team needs to win by 2 goals or more for me to win, while Handicap you either get half your bet or is a no bet????? Thankyou please someone help

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_handicap :ok

[sajtion]

Re: Champions League 30th September

I am keen to know if anybody else shares the oppinion that the Manchester United vs VfL Wolfsburg match will be +2.5 goals? I dont think that Manchester United will be happy with 1 goal and I think that the germans should be able to score against them. Most likely it would end 2-1 in my eyes but I would like to have more oppinions on it? so is +2.5 highly plausible?

alex ferguson has hinted it could be open game. armin veh has said they would not sit back and defend but use their best asset and attack man united. all wolfsburg players are optimistic about the game tonight

[Mahno]

Re: Champions League 30th September CSKA for me today. Full squad CSKA against poor Besiktas who can't even score single goal in last 5 matches. CSKA are very strong at home,they have no injured or suspended players. The pressure will be on Besiktas as it can be last match for their coach if they loose.Besiktas didn't play well away in Europe for the last 2 years so i think CSKA will be too strong for them.

[Mahno]

Re: Champions League 30th September Man.Un v Wolfsburg both teams to score. Man.Un at home will score for sure but i also hope Dzeko or Grafite will score 1 as well.

[Jase82]

Re: Champions League 30th September Manchester United - 2 @ 2.85 V Wolfsburg Anytime goalscorer - Wayne Rooney @ 1.97 Initially when I read this quote from Armin Veh I though fair play to him; "There is a chance that Obafemi Martins will be brought into action and we'll play with three strikers, but of course it's not easy for him to win the competition with two strikers like Grafite and Edin Džeko". However, I'm now more inclined to think he's a little crazy to play three up front away at Old Trafford. United haven't lost there since 2005 and even that was a knockout stage loss against AC Milan. Before that, you have to go back even further to 2001 to find their previous loss. Wolfsburg leak goals by the truck load, which is their main problem. At this level, any side can't go out with their main aim being to score more than the opposition because they will be caught wanting and before you know it, you'll be 2 goals down and chasing the game. I wouldn't also go too much by their scrappy 1-0 win away at Besiktas either. Besiktas was a difficult place to go and United often don't play that well away from home in the group stages. Manchester United will be without Van Der Saar still, which is their only concern as Ben Foster has looked shaky. The absence of Park Ji-Sung is probably a blessing in disguise because I don't rate him at all, and he seems prone to errors. Wolfsburg will be up for the game no doubt, but their ability to gift goals to even the most basic of opponents would worry me. They shipped 2 goals to Pompey at home last year in the Uefa Cup, which says it all. Reason for the goalscorers is a no brainer really. Rooney since moving more centrally has rediscovered his shooting boots, and has hit 7 goals in 9 games this season.

[uhr]

Re: Champions League 30th September I think that Wolfsburg will score, so do Manchester, they will not defend for all game. Germany team always playing punch by punch, they will not waiting for invitation to shooting. That will be a good game. I think that Wolfsburg score first, when Man will be slepping in first minutes, then The Reds will perform a massive attack. Look at the statistics of Wolfsburg: Wolfsburg vs. Hannover 96 4:2 1. FC Cologne vs. Wolfsburg 3:2 FC Schalke 04 vs. Wolfsburg 1:2 Wolfsburg vs. CSKA Moscow 3:1 Wolfsburg vs. Bayer Leverkusen 2:3 Bayern Munich vs. Wolfsburg 3:0 13:10 and Man U. Stoke City vs. Manchester United 0:2 Manchester United vs. Wolverhampton 1:0 Manchester United vs. Manchester City 4:3 Besiktas vs. Manchester United 0:1 Tottenham vs. Manchester United 1:3 Manchester United vs. Arsenal FC 2:1 13:5 Over 2.5 @ 1,55 Bet at home What do you think about Bordeaux? They are in good condition, but Maccabi was fighting with Bayern for 65 minutes.

[milan-tifosi]

Re: Champions League 30th September anyone know anything about missing players for APOEL and how important they are?