glceud Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Sorry to be critical but..... I'm raising with both the a/q's and cbetting the flop hit or miss in both hands I would say your stack is still big enough to play "poker" The j/q hand is a point in play i need help with, your not short stacked but damn close to being so, you could raise the pot and hope to take it down knowing any resistance preflop or post flop and your into short stack play which you know inside out. You could shove to keep your stack semi playable for longer if your bet gets through,but 8 times out of ten I'm folding. Is limping really an option?, if it is it might explain my problem in this part of the game. Out of curiosity what do you think of your tourney play these days. Before I joined here and soon after I thought you were a very very good tourney player. Then you decided to muck about with HU, short handed turbos, coolers etc to improve your overall understanding of the game. I thought that was a brilliant idea and would take you to a far higher level. It appears not to have though:sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioArca Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results WTF???? AQ Folded twice? Your tighter than I thought mate I agree - sounds like youre playing with "scared" money. Normally shoves with KJo when he is on my table ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Actually, I doubt it's exactly a matter of "scared money". I wouldn't have thought that losing $109 will mean that GaF can't pay the bills. When I've played higher buy-in tournaments after not having done so for a while, I do find I'm tempted to play far too cagily, but I don't think it's anything to do with being scared to lose the money (I've never played that high buy-in tournaments!). I think it's more that I convince myself that, playing against better opposition than I'm used to, I'm more likely to be outplayed if I try anything ... and there's almost certainly some truth in that, although not to the extent that it's correct to shut down. [Try playing a $1.10 tournament in the MTT Challenge with a bankroll of $11.28 if you really want to know what playing with scared money feels like! :tongue2] Anyway, I'm probably going to try one of these on Monday (screenname slapdash). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results I think it's more that I convince myself that' date=' playing against better opposition than I'm used to, I'm more likely to be outplayed if I try anything ... and there's almost certainly some truth in that, although not to the extent that it's correct to shut down.[/quote'] I think you've hit the nail on the head :ok The other aspect to it is that I was HUDless. PT3, my usual software doesnt work with Betfair. So I downloaded the HEM trial. For the first hour of the game I couldnt get the HUD to work, but was fiddling with that trying to get it to work. I wasnt watching the table/my opponents at all. I did eventually get the HUD to work, but it was totally unfamiliar to me - I couldnt find my way around that well, so it's utility was limited - my focus then was on working out what the numbers were, what information I could get, what the pop-ups were and where I could find the information that I wanted. For most of the game I was therefore completely uninformed and blind to what was going on. My error was in not sorting out the HUD beforehand and allowing myself some time to play some STTs at lower levels to find mt feet (I guess that's what I need to do this week-end). Looking back over my hands, I didn't have that much to work with - the hole cards I got were certainly below average, and the "good situations" limited. Of course a good player doesnt need to wait for good cards :wall :wall :wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results This is pretty cool in HEM (only just seen it). A breakdown of the cards I got throughout the tournament. I was dealt Hole Cards 165 times, so I presume 0.61% equates to "once". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results This is pretty cool in HEM (only just seen it). A breakdown of the cards I got throughout the tournament. Trust GaF to come up with the most technologically advanced bad beat post in PL history! :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuleBritannia Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results This is pretty cool in HEM (only just seen it). A breakdown of the cards I got throughout the tournament. I was dealt Hole Cards 165 times, so I presume 0.61% equates to "once". Fantastic stuff mate..... very interesting stuff. Out of interest.... did you play the other AQs you had and your AKs or were you denied the opportunity by big raisers etc.... ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Here's the AKs (I was racing, but slightly behind, so got licky :)) ***** Hand History for Game 531269663 ***** (Betfair) $3000.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, June 04, 07:40:40 ET 2009 Table 18000 Guaranteed NL Holdem 250013 (Real Money) Seat 1 is the button Seat 1: plus 1 ( $2535.50 USD ) Seat 2: TheSkill ( $2551.75 USD ) Seat 3: fausto ( $2736.50 USD ) Seat 4: alex01 ( $2165.00 USD ) Seat 5: potodder ( $2763.75 USD ) Seat 6: Telepe ( $2305.00 USD ) Seat 7: joffy ( $2800.00 USD ) Seat 8: JUNGLE CAT ( $1897.50 USD ) Seat 9: ILoveCheese ( $2745.00 USD ) TheSkill posts small blind [$15.00 USD]. fausto posts big blind [$30.00 USD]. ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to Telepe [ :Kh::Ah: ] alex01 folds potodder folds Telepe raises [$120.00 USD] joffy folds JUNGLE CAT calls [$120.00 USD] ILoveCheese folds plus 1 folds TheSkill calls [$105.00 USD] fausto raises [$570.00 USD] Telepe raises [$2185.00 USD] JUNGLE CAT folds TheSkill folds fausto calls [$1705.00 USD] fausto shows [:Jc:, :Jh: ] Telepe shows [Kh, Ah ] ** Dealing Flop ** [ As, 2h, 6d ] ** Dealing Turn ** [ 3c ] ** Dealing River ** [ 3s ] Telepe wins $4850.00 USD from main pot Here are the two AQ hands I didn't put above: ***** Hand History for Game 531266932 ***** (Betfair) $3000.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, June 04, 07:35:47 ET 2009 Table 18000 Guaranteed NL Holdem 250013 (Real Money) Seat 6 is the button Seat 1: plus 1 ( $2220.50 USD ) Seat 2: TheSkill ( $2761.75 USD ) Seat 3: fausto ( $3126.50 USD ) Seat 4: alex01 ( $2165.00 USD ) Seat 5: potodder ( $2482.50 USD ) Seat 6: Telepe ( $2365.00 USD ) Seat 7: joffy ( $2815.00 USD ) Seat 8: JUNGLE CAT ( $2148.75 USD ) Seat 9: ILoveCheese ( $2415.00 USD ) joffy posts small blind [$15.00 USD]. JUNGLE CAT posts big blind [$30.00 USD]. ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to Telepe [ :Qh: :Ah: ] ILoveCheese folds plus 1 folds TheSkill folds fausto folds alex01 folds potodder raises [$60.00 USD] Telepe calls [$60.00 USD] joffy folds JUNGLE CAT calls [$30.00 USD] ** Dealing Flop ** [ :4d:, :6d:, :Th: ] JUNGLE CAT checks potodder checks Telepe checks ** Dealing Turn ** [ :9d: ] JUNGLE CAT checks potodder bets [$146.25 USD] Telepe folds JUNGLE CAT calls [$146.25 USD] ** Dealing River ** [ Jh ] JUNGLE CAT checks potodder checks JUNGLE CAT shows [8c, Ad ] potodder shows [9s, Ts ] potodder wins $487.50 USD from main pot This was the hand I was knocked out with: ***** Hand History for Game 531352003 ***** (Betfair) $40000.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, June 04, 09:48:31 ET 2009 Table 18000 Guaranteed NL Holdem 250013 (Real Money) Seat 2 is the button Seat 1: TheoBagwell ( $27442.27 USD ) Seat 2: jaral ( $10876.12 USD ) Seat 3: Telepe ( $3660.00 USD ) Seat 4: pom poy ( $9285.25 USD ) Seat 5: DfrentGrade ( $5401.13 USD ) Seat 6: rAdve ( $13031.50 USD ) Seat 7: tbags ( $17255.63 USD ) Seat 8: tobiastefan ( $18347.73 USD ) Seat 9: ALIKARIMI ( $20224.00 USD ) TheoBagwell posts ante of [$40.00 USD]. jaral posts ante of [$40.00 USD]. Telepe posts ante of [$40.00 USD]. pom poy posts ante of [$40.00 USD]. DfrentGrade posts ante of [$40.00 USD]. rAdve posts ante of [$40.00 USD]. ALIKARIMI posts ante of [$40.00 USD]. tobiastefan posts ante of [$40.00 USD]. tbags posts ante of [$40.00 USD]. Telepe posts small blind [$200.00 USD]. pom poy posts big blind [$400.00 USD]. ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to Telepe [ :Ah: :Qs: ] DfrentGrade folds rAdve folds tbags raises [$800.00 USD] tobiastefan folds ALIKARIMI folds TheoBagwell folds jaral calls [$800.00 USD] Telepe raises [$3420.00 USD] pom poy folds tbags calls [$2820.00 USD] jaral folds Telepe shows [Ah, Qs ] tbags shows [:Jh:, :Jd: ] ** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, Js, 9h ] ** Dealing Turn ** [ 8d ] ** Dealing River ** [ 6h ] tbags wins $8800.00 USD from main pot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quiet Man Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Sorry to be critical but..... I'm raising with both the a/q's and cbetting the flop hit or miss in both hands I would say your stack is still big enough to play "poker" The j/q hand is a point in play i need help with, your not short stacked but damn close to being so, you could raise the pot and hope to take it down knowing any resistance preflop or post flop and your into short stack play which you know inside out. You could shove to keep your stack semi playable for longer if your bet gets through,but 8 times out of ten I'm folding. Is limping really an option?, if it is it might explain my problem in this part of the game. Out of curiosity what do you think of your tourney play these days. Before I joined here and soon after I thought you were a very very good tourney player. Then you decided to muck about with HU, short handed turbos, coolers etc to improve your overall understanding of the game. I thought that was a brilliant idea and would take you to a far higher level. It appears not to have though:sad This is a good post...I'm agreeing with just about everything here!:clap I would also question whether the obsession with the opponent tracking software has taken away your natural feel for the game and you tend to look for the software to make decisions for you?:unsure I played beside you recently in one of my rare PL games and I got the impression you had turned mega tight even though you were unluckily put out in 4th place.......I don't think you've any problem at all once you reach a Final Table...in fact I'm backing you to win most....getting there seems to be the problem!:cry Bin the lot and get back on the freerolls!:lol:lol A long post for me...where's my beer?:beer TQM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Sorry to be critical but..... Dont be - I welcome all the feedback :ok Out of curiosity what do you think of your tourney play these days. Before I joined here and soon after I thought you were a very very good tourney player. Then you decided to muck about with HU' date=' short handed turbos, coolers etc to improve your overall understanding of the game. I thought that was a brilliant idea and would take you to a far higher level. It appears not to have though:sad[/quote'] To be honest, tourney play isnt my main focus any more (though it is starting to recover some of its focus). I feel happy I have benefitted through my poker diversity - I dont believe that you can ever know too much (that's definitely not my problem ;)) and focusing on specific aspects teaches you the impact very quickly of that aspect which can then be taken out to "normal" poker. Maybe the benefits perhaps arent seen because I havent been p[laying that many MTT's :unsure I do believe as well that when you play mostly cash games, then your tournament play is (temporarily) worse as you have made a lot of sub conscious adjustments to your game needed to play cash (and vice versia). I also think that my ability on PL has always been overestimated - I probably wasnt as good as you thought I was in the early days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results I would also question whether the obsession with the opponent tracking software has taken away your natural feel for the game and you tend to look for the software to make decisions for you?:unsure I played beside you recently in one of my rare PL games and I got the impression you had turned mega tight even though you were unluckily put out in 4th place.......I don't think you've any problem at all once you reach a Final Table...in fact I'm backing you to win most....getting there seems to be the problem!:cry Specific to last night - I was trying to get the HUD working because I believe it would have given me the maximum (and best) information on my opponents. By doing so I had virtually no focus on the table. Because I was working on the HUD, I had virtually no observation on the table, and less than I would have managed even when playing with a HUD. Had I given up on the HUD early and focused on the table manually instead, I would have played far better. Had I sorted out the HUD and got used to it before the tournament even started last night, I would have played far nearer my best. For your second point - I think that could be a result of my cash play :unsure Because the implied odds arent there, I'm a lot more hesitant to get involved. Maybe :unsure I do "work through the gears" - When we're deep (not long in an MTT) I'll probably play a reasonable number of hands for the implied odds. When we're mid stacked, I struggle (and always have) - the implied odds arent there to play too speculatively and the stacks are too deep to get too much money in too light. I find it a bit of a paradox. At this stage I pretty much shut down. I'll probably be the tightest player on the table. By the time we're on the final table, we're probably short stacked and I open up - I'm probably one of the loosest (and almost certainly the most aggressive) player on the table. I'm constantly aware of the Sklansky-Chubukov ratings (I have a chart beside my PC) for each hand and position (I estimate the ratings for all positions in a way not covered by the book). This is a bit easier to play as it's often clear that folding is clearly wrong and then your only option is to shove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Seems I have no other games so might as well start with my first Betfair BOGOF game tonight :) Wish me luck. Tablename: PLGremlin And no tracking software to distract me :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgin Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results I'm in tonight as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Good luck guys :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatoman Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Specific to last night - I was trying to get the HUD working because I believe it would have given me the maximum (and best) information on my opponents. By doing so I had virtually no focus on the table. Because I was working on the HUD, I had virtually no observation on the table, and less than I would have managed even when playing with a HUD. Had I given up on the HUD early and focused on the table manually instead, I would have played far better. Had I sorted out the HUD and got used to it before the tournament even started last night, I would have played far nearer my best. For your second point - I think that could be a result of my cash play :unsure Because the implied odds arent there, I'm a lot more hesitant to get involved. Maybe :unsure I do "work through the gears" - When we're deep (not long in an MTT) I'll probably play a reasonable number of hands for the implied odds. When we're mid stacked, I struggle (and always have) - the implied odds arent there to play too speculatively and the stacks are too deep to get too much money in too light. I find it a bit of a paradox. At this stage I pretty much shut down. I'll probably be the tightest player on the table. By the time we're on the final table, we're probably short stacked and I open up - I'm probably one of the loosest (and almost certainly the most aggressive) player on the table. I'm constantly aware of the Sklansky-Chubukov ratings (I have a chart beside my PC) for each hand and position (I estimate the ratings for all positions in a way not covered by the book). This is a bit easier to play as it's often clear that folding is clearly wrong and then your only option is to shove. I will agree with TQM because i dont see the point in being so obsessed with tracking software. That kind of software is very, very, very useful for cash games, but.. for example, in this Betfair game, you played 165 hands, and if you shared with someone the entire tournament, you only had 165 hands on them, and that sample is not enough to draw any conclussions. And, besides that, tournament play is based on situations, and not a repetitive stuff as cash games. As for the second point, I KNOW that cash games just kill your tournament game, because, as GaF pointed out, at a subconcious level i guess you try to keep it VERY TIGHT, just because that works on cash and a lot of times you get a maniac to pay you with the 2nd, 3rd or 110th best hand. I know i have tried two times to dive into the cash games and the result is that you lose your "natural feel" to tournaments as TQM said. And... just to make this post a little longer, i have to agree with Glceud, and i really dont think we overestimate your skills. But i think the best part of your game was your agression and i personally think you lost a little of that. Regards GaF and we know you will do a better job in the next 19 games!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Hmmm... bad start of the challenge, out 138th Played with my best starting hands, but couldn't win with them :( GL McGin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGremlin Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Asked to get my free game next friday. How long does this promo last? I might take 20 weeks to play all 20 games :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgin Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results No good, out around 80th. Never really had any impact, always struggling with a short stack :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Not impressed but its a start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Is that a cash? :unsure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAM Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Is that a cash? :unsure Yes $216 but I'm greedy :tongue2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Quadrupled your money - nice :ok And who's playing around with my Avatar? Mods abusing powers? How childish :tongue2 (though I'm guessing they've failed to achieve whatever they wanted to achieve ;)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Got my first free game tonight - thanks John :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Got my first free game tonight - thanks John :ok I'm playing my first unfree game. Good luck GaF, and anybody else playing (including me!). :hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results I've already played more hands than last time :tongue2 - DOubled up and on 5000 chips :) Reeshah on my table. Also see Norfolk (Xtrmntr) in 8th and Fenner in 15th - looks like we're off to a flyer :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk Enchance Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Just seen this thread. I'm a bit rusty as I haven't played for ages, so its nice to get off to a positive start. Good luck everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldric Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Good luck guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldric Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results I've already played more hands than last time :tongue2 :lol That couldn't have been hard, even I play more hands than you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results Fenners 2nd, I'm 12th, Guppie 39th 48 left - 18 paid Still time for a PL Podiuuuuuuum? :hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Re: Betfair BOGOF results I was out in 75th. Good luck all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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