Your shove range in Coolers - big blinds eating stacks up

[robilaruk]

I am trying to put a spreadsheet together matching my BB hand against perceived shoving ranges from the SB/Button in coolers. Scenario: 3/5/10euro buy-in cooler: you are on the button/sb have the lowest chip count 1000-1200 or so, everyone else folds, players left to act have a 2200-2600 chips left, (similar to the other players). No one is LAAG and seem to be average for this level. Its the bubble. Blinds are 100/200 what cards would you shove and what is the bottom of the range i.e shove any ace or only A6+, any K or only K8+ etc. What would be the lowest 'highest' card you would need (Qx, Jx, 10x etc) Do suited cards make a difference to you? What would be the lowest pair you would shove? Alternatively if you prefer not to announce your range :tongue2 what do you think is the shoving range of the average player at the 3/5/10 euro level given the scenario above. If there were 7 players left, would the range be different? Thanks Damo

[GaF]

Re: Your shove range in Coolers - big blinds eating stacks up ok - punched the following scenario into SnG Power Tools 6 players left: BB 1300 SB 2700 BTN 2700 CO 2700 CO+1 2800 CO+2 2800 Blinds are 125/250 (Ante.25) If the calling range of all players is TT+, AQs+, AKo (that's waaaaay too loose - but a good starting point), and everyone folds to them, then each player should shove the following: CO+2 AA only CO+1 KK+ CO QQ+ and AKs BTN Push hands: 33+,A2+,K3o+,K2s+,QTo+,Q3s+,JTo,J8s+,T9s (38.9%) SB Push hands: 22+,A2+,K2+,Q2+,J2+,T2+,92+,82+,72+,62+,52+,42+,32 (100.0%) I'm amazed at how loose the Btn and SB should apparently be :loon Using these ranges, and assuming 1 shove before him, what should BB call with? CO+2 Never call CO+1 Call with AA CO Call with AA BTN Call with TT+,AKo,AQs+ (3.8%) SB Call hands: 77+,AQo+,ATs+ (6.6%) That doesnt seem right to me :unsure But if it is right - someone will always shove into the BB and he should nearly always fold :unsure

[slapdash]

Re: Your shove range in Coolers - big blinds eating stacks up I think my shoving range here is something like: Any pair, any ace, any two broadway, K9, K8s. However, I adjust my range a bit according to how often I've shoved recently (I don't want them to think I'm shoving with anything) and how much the other players are entering pots (if it's being folded to me most hands, then I can afford more to wait for better cards, but if somebody is limping or raising most hands before me, then I'm under more pressure to take the opportunities when I can).

[AJ]

Re: Your shove range in Coolers - big blinds eating stacks up

I am trying to put a spreadsheet together matching my BB hand against perceived shoving ranges from the SB/Button in coolers. Scenario: 3/5/10euro buy-in cooler: you are on the button/sb have the lowest chip count 1000-1200 or so, everyone else folds, players left to act have a 2200-2600 chips left, (similar to the other players). No one is LAAG and seem to be average for this level. Its the bubble. Blinds are 100/200 what cards would you shove and what is the bottom of the range i.e shove any ace or only A6+, any K or only K8+ etc. What would be the lowest 'highest' card you would need (Qx, Jx, 10x etc) Do suited cards make a difference to you? What would be the lowest pair you would shove? Alternatively if you prefer not to announce your range :tongue2 what do you think is the shoving range of the average player at the 3/5/10 euro level given the scenario above. If there were 7 players left, would the range be different? Thanks Damo

On the button, I'm quite tight, I've got through the blinds so can pause. Any pair, any two broadway, any ace, any king, queens + 5, jack + 6 In the small blind, I'm pushing with literally any two cards. If there was 7 players left, then I can't be so tight, I need to pick up some chips, can't coast. I'd push with any two cards from the button as well.

[billy the punter]

Re: Your shove range in Coolers - big blinds eating stacks up As most of you don't play on betfair I can say what I'd do. :lol Any two woking cards basically. Any pair Suited - Any 1 to 3 gappers (43+), any suited paint Unsuited - Anything over T6 (inc 98) - although J2's and Q2's etc aren't ideal. I would lower my range the lower the level though.

[Samba_SamPa]

Re: Your shove range in Coolers - big blinds eating stacks up It is game dependant for me. By this stage thing are looking a tad bleak, if it folds round to me I am probably shoving with atc, it would depend on how the rest of the table have played so far

[billy the punter]

Re: Your shove range in Coolers - big blinds eating stacks up

It is game dependant for me. By this stage thing are looking a tad bleak' date=' if it folds round to me I am probably shoving with atc, it would depend on how the rest of the table have played so far[/quote'] Yes that's a fair comment and decisions to play hands like J2/3o would depend on such things. However, so far I'm finding that 'double or nothings' are less in a state of flux than regular games. I play 99% at the same level and my opponents have rarely changed their style, and there isn't even a great deal of difference between a LOT of players (with regards to tactics). If this makes sense.

[slapdash]

Re: Your shove range in Coolers - big blinds eating stacks up

I would lower my range the lower the level though.

By "lower your range" I presume you mean reduce your range rather than lower your requirements?

[billy the punter]

Re: Your shove range in Coolers - big blinds eating stacks up

By "lower your range" I presume you mean reduce your range rather than lower your requirements?

Yes I would reduce the range of push hands the lower the level (buy-in). At the real low levels I would worry the player doesn't understand his position. I've seen some weird risky bubble play. As we know exploiting the bubble concept only works if the others understand it - but not too well. ;) :ok

[robilaruk]

Re: Your shove range in Coolers - big blinds eating stacks up

ok - punched the following scenario into SnG Power Tools 6 players left: BB 1300 SB 2700 BTN 2700 CO 2700 CO+1 2800 CO+2 2800 Blinds are 125/250 (Ante.25) I'm amazed at how loose the Btn and SB should apparently be :loon That doesnt seem right to me :unsure But if it is right - someone will always shove into the BB and he should nearly always fold :unsure

that is odd and very loose for Btn/SB vs a short stacked BB, surely his calling range here is much wider than 1010+ with only 1200 chips left? However you have the chip stacks in the wrong order for my question, you are the but/sb with only 1200 chips shoving into the blinds/BB who have about 2.4K each - so what should you shove with as the small stack? Thanks Damo

[GaF]

Re: Your shove range in Coolers - big blinds eating stacks up

However you have the chip stacks in the wrong order for my question, you are the but/sb with only 1200 chips shoving into the blinds/BB who have about 2.4K each - so what should you shove with as the small stack?

There's not enough chips in play with those stacks (which is why I changed them to get 15k chips in play). Have done it with your stacks though and blinds 100/200 (ante 20) :ok From SB: If BB will call with any two cards, then you should shove with 99+ If BB will call with top 50%: Push hands: 88+,AT+,KQs (8.3%) If BB will call with top 40%: Push hands: 77+,A9o+,A8s+,KQo,KJs+ (11.5%) If BB will call top 30%: Push hands: 44+,A4o+,A2s+,KT+ (21.3%) If BB will call top 20%: Push hands: 22+,A2+,K2+,Q5o+,Q2s+,J7o+,J2s+,T7o+,T2s+,97o+,93s+,86o+,84s+,76o,74s+,63s+,53s+ (64.4%) So you're pushing pretty tight :unsure From Button: If SB calls with top 50% and BB calls top 100%: Push hands: JJ+ (1.8%) If SB calls with top 30% and BB calls top 100%: Push hands: JJ+ (1.8%) If SB calls with top 50% and BB calls top 50%: Push hands: JJ+ (1.8%) If SB calls with top 30% and BB calls top 100%: Push hands: JJ+,AKs (2.1%) If SB calls with top 20% and BB calls top 30%: Push hands: TT+,AQ+ (4.7%) Your range goes down a long way on the Button compared to the SB

[GaF]

Re: Your shove range in Coolers - big blinds eating stacks up Not fully got my head around it yet - but just found this and looks interesting..... http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sngs/icmcalculator.html?action=calculate&bb=200&sb=100&ante=0&structure=0.2%2C0.2%2C0.2%2C0.2%2C0.2&s1=2400&s2=2400&s3=2400&s4=2400&s5=1200&s6=2400&s7=&s8=&s9=

[robilaruk]

Re: Your shove range in Coolers - big blinds eating stacks up

Not fully got my head around it yet - but just found this and looks interesting.....

Thanks like this one Damo