ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

[radevd]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

I'm reading that Murray is through to the Semi Finals. Do you think is worth going with Federer in his match vs Murray as hes already through. You can get 1.83 on Fed at the moment- is this value? I think Murray will be looking to save himself, despite him saying in the interview that he wants to win. Thoughts?

I'll be backing Murray. I told already he's a fox and he won't saving himself I think as Djokovic wouldn't do this also tomorrow. He is a pride person and won't give up, esp to Federer. He impressed me against not an easy opponent Simon. Simply to say Murray is in exceptional form, pressure is on Roger, Murray will enjoy his tennis and will win. I'll wait for the day after tomorrow though.

[radevd]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov Thanks for giving credit to me, I just try to give my best to the last tennis bus of the year, that's why I'm betting and talking so much. Really Simon was the cracker, that improved my position. Mr.I, A.Murray and other guys look to be passive this week. It would be good, Datapunter, to make the total at the end of every thread when matches are over to see who's the best. I remember for example, that Mr I was the best in ATP Madrid, he enjoyed a really good week there. Djokovic 1.40 and Davydenko 1.57 combination. Djokovic looked to be solid against Del Potro and Davydenko. May be he won't be 100 % motivated here, but the revenge desire ( Paris and Bangkok ) and also bad Tsonga confidence are key factors. Novak won't force the issue, he''ll wait for "greenhorn" JW to attack and... make his unfforced errors. Tsonga is too ambitious, he's trying to hit winners from every position. He's risking too much and we know such players do not have big success. Djokovic serve these week saved him in critical situations. Davydenko lost a close match from Serbian, a match that could really go either way. Stiill he was solid at the baseline, I told it before big points are his problem, but overall he's much better that JMP. Del Potro had a good match against JW, but the pressure and importance are pilling on him. Nikolay is better in rallies, may be Russian rushed too much, that's why he lost form Nole. If he'll mix and play intelligent as he can: no chance for argentinian. Other people willl remeber their last meeting in Davis Cup, but first it was on clay ( for me Davydenko's best surface is hard ) and second it was in Argentina ( home factor can be very strong we see another Tsonga for example, when he's not playing home ).

[Mr Intensity]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

I'm reading that Murray is through to the Semi Finals. Do you think is worth going with Federer in his match vs Murray as hes already through. You can get 1.83 on Fed at the moment- is this value? I think Murray will be looking to save himself, despite him saying in the interview that he wants to win. Thoughts?

Yeah I agree with you. It's interesting to think how Murray will approach this match, he could not be too bothered and play pretty easy to get a bit of a rest. He could play really hard, really wanting to get another win over Federer and knock him out, or he could be somewhere inbetween. All the times they've met in the past federer has been a very strong favourite, but in this match he's just a small favourite - I agree there should be an adjustment in the prices but in this case I think it's gone too far. I'll probably back Federer but will wait until after tomorrow's matches:ok

[Mr Intensity]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov DAVYDENKO @ 1.66 totesport. I see Davy as a solid fav here. He's had a couple of tough matches against Tsonga and Djokovic, ending up 1-1 but he's had a high level throughout both. He's serving well and in this form I just see him being too solid for del Potro. Del Potro also has a 1-1 record having a couple of 2 set matches, the Djokovic one was quite poor then he got through against Tsonga which was pretty decent. Having watched them both I just see Davydenko as playing better and with everything at stake I see him coming through.

[Datapunter]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

It would be good, Datapunter, to make the total at the end of every thread when matches are over to see who's the best. I remember for example, that Mr I was the best in ATP Madrid, he enjoyed a really good week there.

Well it's not about who's best, it's not a competition. But i for one do appreciate if someone posted a series of bets on an event to learn the overall result. Information is one thing, results another. It's up to the individual and one can always ask. :D Mr. I had ONE really good week you say :unsure

[Mr Intensity]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

Mr. I had ONE really good week you say :unsure

I had a good week in Newport a few months ago too:lol:lol

[bet_man]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

Roddick - Murray match still counts. Now Stepanek has lost a match he cannot qualify. What I don't know is what happens if Simon beats Stepank and Federer beats Murray?:unsure

i am not sure but i think set handicaps will be the criteria

[Mr Intensity]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

i am not sure but i think set handicaps will be the criteria

Yeah I think so too - but I was hearing earlier that it was H2H. Actually think I've just found the rules:lol:lol

3) The final standings of each group shall be determined by the first of the following methods that apply: a) Greatest number of wins; b) Greatest number of matches played; c) Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied, or if three (3) players are tied, then: i) If three (3) players each have one win, a player having played less than all three (3) matches is automatically eliminated and the player advancing to the Single Elimination competition is the winner of thematch-up of the two (2) players tied with 1-2 records; or ii) Highest percentage of sets won; or iii) Highest percentage of games won. iv) If (i), (ii) or (iii) produce one superior player (first place), or one inferior player (third place), and the two remaining players are tied, the tie between those two players shall be broken by head-to-head record. 4) If ties still exist after the above procedures, the Steering Committee shall make the final determination.

So Federer and Simon both win, part ii) applies and Federer will go through having won more sets. If Federer and Simon both lose, part i) will apply and it will be Simon who goes through on the H2H. So Federer has to win to have a chance:unsure

[bet_man]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

Yeah I think so too - but I was hearing earlier that it was H2H. Actually think I've just found the rules:lol:lol So Federer and Simon both win, part ii) applies and Federer will go through having won more sets. If Federer and Simon both lose, part i) will apply and it will be Simon who goes through on the H2H. So Federer has to win to have a chance:unsure

if Federer beat murray 2-1 in sets,and simon beat stepanek 2-0.i think Federer will be eliminated....

[AndrewMurray]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov Everyone thought Einstein was crazy until he started kicking ass. well, what i know for sure, is that at early 20's, something like FIVE at least years after albert einstein published the famous general relativity theory(1915) they were only two or three people in the world that umderstood it! and i speak about science community, not people in general! hehehe, always if you dont understand something, if its beyond your thoughts limits, you call it madness or stupidity, thats our nature as humans...now days of course, some physicists completely reject this theory, but they very well analyse why.... raved said about tsonga, that he is hitting probable winners from all positions, but failures most ....that happened in one match, today hits may proved to be winners, or simply tsonga may change his game plan; to move to the net, and kill djokovic from there, you never know, players dont know, how our selves should know? they change their mind evey moment, sometimes they really decide last clasma of second how to hit the ball, every pre match tennis analysis, is a trial to invade a player's brain, impossible of course, what we do normally all of us, is to predict the past, we predict the past, we can not predict future, there isnt such a thing hehe, tsonga match starts in a while, i will watch it for my pleasure, and i thing he can do it, djokovic is no better than him overall cheers

[Mr Intensity]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

if Federer beat murray 2-1 in sets' date='and simon beat stepanek 2-0.i think Federer will be eliminated....[/quote'] If that happens then Federer will be 5-3 in sets Simon will be 4-3 in sets :unsure

[Mr Intensity]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

If that happens then Federer will be 5-3 in sets Simon will be 4-3 in sets :unsure

..and Murray will be 5-3

[Mr Intensity]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov Nice tank job from Novak:lol:lol

[Spooner]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov PMSL, This sport is such a farce. Djokovic not even trying in the 3rd set. I know the game meant nothing, But if you turn up and are willing to play then it would be nice to 'try'. If you intended to lose then don't bother turning up.

[DeMMa]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

if Federer beat murray 2-1 in sets' date='and simon beat stepanek 2-0.i think Federer will be eliminated....[/quote'] What if FED LOSES & SIMON WINS? Or FED wins 2-1, Simon 2-0? Or FED LOSE, SIMON LOSE?

[Mr Intensity]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

What if FED LOSES & SIMON WINS? Or FED wins 2-1, Simon 2-0? Or FED LOSE, SIMON LOSE?

If Fed loses, his match record is 1-2, and if Simon wins he is 2-1 with Murray 3-0 so it is clear. Second scenario is the one bet man put up and I answered - Federer goes through. I also answered what happens if they both lose - Simon goes through on H2H. Basically, if Federer wins he goes through.

[Mr Intensity]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

PMSL' date=' This sport is such a farce. Djokovic not even trying in the 3rd set. I know the game meant nothing, But if you turn up and are willing to play then it would be nice to 'try'. If you intended to lose then don't bother turning up.[/quote'] It's not the sport it's the round robin format that happens once a year (thank the lord they scrapped RR in normal tournaments). Djokovic tried to win, he was close to winning in 2 sets, then gave up:sad

[radevd]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov Yes basically if Roger wins he''ll go through. Easy win for Davydenko, Djokovic just f***ed my combinations, nothing to do I should just thought about it. Novak is not a mad fighter, he's a smartass. :@ AndrewMurray players certainly change their style of play, but they couldn't change it so much, may be 10-20 % change. Do you imagine Tsonga playing like Simon, or Safin playing like Davydenko. You can not be a flegmatic person and become a sangvinic person. Styles change over years not in one match. Tsonga is an impatient person he can not stay in long rallies like Simon. That's the true.

[radevd]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov Murray 2.10 I see markets rose up a bit, means lot of guys bet on Federer. Suisse man is the motivated guy, he needs to win, but I don't believe he's capable to do it in his form, he is now. Even against Stepanek he didn't impressed me. Murray for me is not the player of Federer's or Nadal sort, he doesn't conservating himself so much. I remember after Madrid, when his staff told him "Don't play in Skt. Peterburg" he played their and even didn't dropped one set. He played against not easy guys like Gulbis or Tipsarevic. But he tried his best. I think also he wants to prove, he's the best I know how he's mad on this subject. He's playing against Federer, not against Tsonga, that should motivate him.

[radevd]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov Simon 2-0 1.90 Actually I know you''ll think, that Simon likes 3 set matches, but that's not the case. All we know may be it's most important match in his career. He''ll be very focused and Stepanek is not the opponent he should have problems with. Radek is an old player Simon will outmuscle in rallies. He will win a little points at the net, because frenchman possedes an amazing passing shot. I watched yesterday Karlovic-Simon ( a match form ATP Madrid ), Ivo wasn't going at the net cause he was afraid of Simon's passing.

[Spooner]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

It's not the sport it's the round robin format that happens once a year (thank the lord they scrapped RR in normal tournaments). Djokovic tried to win, he was close to winning in 2 sets, then gave up:sad

:ok To be fair I don't watch alot of tennis so my comment about it being a 'farce of a sport' was a tad unfair. That 3rd set however from a neutral looking on was a farce and imo something should be done about it. Or was that kind of performence expected from Djokovic because he has a more important game coming up? I just don't understand, I heard he could of got 100k for winning that much, Is this true? :unsure If so then that's crazy. He played properly for two sets and then just basically stopped moving. :lol For a netural looking on it doesn't exactly big the sport up.

[yves]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

Murray 2.10 I see markets rose up a bit, means lot of guys bet on Federer. Suisse man is the motivated guy, he needs to win, but I don't believe he's capable to do it in his form, he is now. Even against Stepanek he didn't impressed me. Murray for me is not the player of Federer's or Nadal sort, he doesn't conservating himself so much. I remember after Madrid, when his staff told him "Don't play in Skt. Peterburg" he played their and even didn't dropped one set. He played against not easy guys like Gulbis or Tipsarevic. But he tried his best. I think also he wants to prove, he's the best I know how he's mad on this subject. He's playing against Federer, not against Tsonga, that should motivate him.

i saw federer against simon, 3 sets match, in 1st set federer was splendid, really unbeatable, but then in the 2 following sets he wasnt that good, against stepanek he didnt show the kind of level we would expect from him at all, if he plays same way as against stepanek then murray should win this without a doubt (personal opinion), if he plays like 1st set in simon match then it will be very close game, but if he plays like against stepanek he will go down for sure. so on the whole i agree with murray pick, good luck to us :ok

[Mr Intensity]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

:ok To be fair I don't watch alot of tennis so my comment about it being a 'farce of a sport' was a tad unfair. That 3rd set however from a neutral looking on was a farce and imo something should be done about it. Or was that kind of performence expected from Djokovic because he has a more important game coming up? I just don't understand, I heard he could of got 100k for winning that much, Is this true? :unsure If so then that's crazy. He played properly for two sets and then just basically stopped moving. :lol For a netural looking on it doesn't exactly big the sport up.

Yeah that's right. Agree entirely with what you're saying. And he's put in some iffy performances before:sad

[radevd]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

:ok To be fair I don't watch alot of tennis so my comment about it being a 'farce of a sport' was a tad unfair. That 3rd set however from a neutral looking on was a farce and imo something should be done about it. Or was that kind of performence expected from Djokovic because he has a more important game coming up? I just don't understand, I heard he could of got 100k for winning that much, Is this true? :unsure If so then that's crazy. He played properly for two sets and then just basically stopped moving. :lol For a netural looking on it doesn't exactly big the sport up.

It's all depending from player's character, guys like Simon, Davydenko or Tsonga play the best,Novak isn't this kind of guy. overall I agree somelike with you, there too many "golden boys" in tennis, but let's not forget it's an individual sport.

[radevd]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov To make it all clear who will be trough Roger or Gilles: The calculations done it looks like this 1. Roger Federer MUST beat Andy Murray to qualify for the SF, irrespective of how many sets it takes. Federer's set stats stand at 3/2 (w/L). He needs to win two sets against Murray. If he does this, he qualifies irrespective of what Gilles Simon does in his match against Radek Stepanek. If Roger Federer wins his match.. his Set stats become 5/2 for a straight sets, or a 5/3 for a three set win. 2. Gilles Simon's set stats are 2/3 (w/L). Praying that Roger Federer beats Andrew Murray, Gilles Simon will be unable to qualify even if he defeats Radek Stepanek in straight sets. If it is a straight sets victory over Radek Stepanek, Gilles Simon's stats improve to 4/3, if he drops a set then its 4/4. Now lets look at all the permutations and combinations-: RF and GS win in straight sets: RF (5/2) , GS (4/3) = RF goes through to SF because of superior set stats RF and GS win in three sets: RF (5/3), GS (4/4) = RF goes through to SF because of superior set stats RF wins, GS loses: RF goes through RF loses in 3 sets, GS loses in straight sets: RF (4/4), GS (2/4) = RF goes through RF and GS lose in 3 sets: RF (4/4), GS (3/4) = RF goes through

[Mr Intensity]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

RF loses in 3 sets, GS loses in straight sets: RF (4/4), GS (2/4) = RF goes through RF and GS lose in 3 sets: RF (4/4), GS (3/4) = RF goes through

No (I think:lol) If they both lose it is a 2 way tie for 2nd place (as opposed to a 3 way tie with Murray if they both win) and thus is determined first by the H2H so Simon goes through.

[Mr Intensity]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov FEDERER @ 1.80 Betfair. H2H is an impressive 3-2 for Murray, and I've tipped him for a couple of those wins, but they were at much bigger prices and at this price I have to go for Roger. Federer played OK for a set against Simon then really fell away and started to make a lot of errors. I think I can put that down to him not having played much and he had stated that he hasn't been practicing much and not serving much due to his back problem. Then against Stepanek I thought he looked pretty good and the performance was much better. People will argue that Stepanek had just stepped in and didn't have any socks/rackets/contact lenses but I watched the match before finding that out and I thought he played pretty well. Now we're at the final group match and Federer needs a win to go through - in the past we've seen him started this tournament poorly but then end up coming through and playing really well. Murray has looked pretty good so far, apart from a drop off against Roddick in the 2nd set. Simon created a lot of chances but was unable to convert and it ended up a pretty easy victory. Now he comes into this match already qualified. Of course he'll want to get another win over Federer, and the extra prize money, but will his motivation be 100%? It might be close, but he can't afford a little drop off against Federer. With that doubt in mind, I just can't justify this price for Federer. I'd have Federer closer to 1.55 - 1.60 for this.

[yves]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

i saw federer against simon, 3 sets match, in 1st set federer was splendid, really unbeatable, but then in the 2 following sets he wasnt that good, against stepanek he didnt show the kind of level we would expect from him at all, if he plays same way as against stepanek then murray should win this without a doubt (personal opinion), if he plays like 1st set in simon match then it will be very close game, but if he plays like against stepanek he will go down for sure. so on the whole i agree with murray pick, good luck to us :ok

damn mistake by me, i though this was semi final match, murray is already qualified so backing him is not a good idea after all

[radevd]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov Latso, my compatriot from another betting site said: I kinda believe in Murray's cinism, so i'm pretty sure he will go for the money in this match. It's a match that will have in play around 500 000,00 Eur ( He can win the tournament with no loss and this makes a huge prize bonus ), 100 race points and 500 ATP points for Murray. He can solve some of his points needs for next season in one match only, against a tired and in shaky form big name of tennis.

[adam7982]

Re: ATP Masters Cup 9th - 16th Nov

FEDERER @ 1.80 Betfair. H2H is an impressive 3-2 for Murray' date= and I've tipped him for a couple of those wins, but they were at much bigger prices and at this price I have to go for Roger. Federer played OK for a set against Simon then really fell away and started to make a lot of errors. I think I can put that down to him not having played much and he had stated that he hasn't been practicing much and not serving much due to his back problem. Then against Stepanek I thought he looked pretty good and the performance was much better. People will argue that Stepanek had just stepped in and didn't have any socks/rackets/contact lenses but I watched the match before finding that out and I thought he played pretty well. Now we're at the final group match and Federer needs a win to go through - in the past we've seen him started this tournament poorly but then end up coming through and playing really well. Murray has looked pretty good so far, apart from a drop off against Roddick in the 2nd set. Simon created a lot of chances but was unable to convert and it ended up a pretty easy victory. Now he comes into this match already qualified. Of course he'll want to get another win over Federer, and the extra prize money, but will his motivation be 100%? It might be close, but he can't afford a little drop off against Federer. With that doubt in mind, I just can't justify this price for Federer. I'd have Federer closer to 1.55 - 1.60 for this.

I was reading today that Federer has a stomach upset and has been sick most of the night which has forced him to not train, he said he needs a miracle to get through after this illness and just hopes after a day of recovery a miracle can happen. Maybe just mind games from Roger ? who knows but does not sound to promising Simon Evens tomorrow to win 2-0 we all know Simon is a slow starter but he has to win tomorrow and i think he will be up for this and I will take this price on a 2-0 win:ok