Is there too much racing??

[bowles10]

Not been able to look at too much racing in the last week due to work pressures, but when i got the odd 5 mins, i was astonished by the amount of daily racing there is. Tomorrow for example in Britain, there are 6 meetings - On a monday!!! Personally, i looked at 2 races yesterday & 2 today. That took enough time but to have so many meetings, i just dont understand it. I think the whole industry needs to take a look at itself & decide if its quantity or quality they want? Whats the view of the PL? See the poll.

[WorkingForTheEnemy]

Re: Is there too much racing?? Back end of last week was mad. If you count the Irish stuff too we had 3 meetings during the day Thurs and Fri (the norm) but 4 meetings Thurs evening and 5 Friday evening!!

[TheRat]

Re: Is there too much racing?? Possibly, I personally ignore a lot of races anyway like most maidens and lower class races and this is a personal filter for me. Some days the racing as a whole is awful and I don't even understand why they have the meetings at all, especially certain Mondays and Tuesdays. Difficult though becuase there are decent lower class handicaps too and horses which run well in these and accumulate decent prize monies Surely if a lot of the races stop, including the lower classes a lot of courses would struggle and we would see them shutting down eventually as they would not be able to sustain being active. Difficult question, as i agree there is too much at time, and sees to be racing for the sake of it, but taking these away may have knock on effects for the industry....... Very interesting topic though

[SteveO]

Re: Is there too much racing?? It's supply and demand. By decreasing the amount of races you're not going to get better quality races. It's nice to have a wide range of races to bet on especially for the traders on betfair.

[cavello]

Re: Is there too much racing?? I love lower class racing, maidens,low grade novice races sellers claimers etc etc. They are my money machine. Why people think group races are better for betting makes me:lol The more racing the better for the harder working punter bacause good bets will often slip under the radar. Yesterday was typical with punters doing thier dosh on quailty races which required hours of study . While easy money was available at last night's low grade meeting at Uttoxeter for just over an hour study.:ok

[bowles10]

Re: Is there too much racing?? cavello youre therefore saying lower class racing = less study time? I assume thats because 30% of the field are crap & wouldnt win in a month of sundays. However, same could be said for some group races which are normally won by horses in top 5 of the betting. Interesting point this for me, as i have concluded that i am only now looking at class 3 & better in future. You have to have a cut off point as i cannot study 40 races a day, but i can do 5 or 6.

[Trotter]

Re: Is there too much racing?? Good issue for a debate ! No, I don't think there's too much racing. It's like asking if there's too much 'Theatre' or 'Cinema'........there's as much as people will watch. There are an awful lot of jobs at stake and people's livelihoods bound up with racing, why consider artificially limiting the amount below what 'the market' can sustain ? OK........a lot of racing is very poor quality, but then, 90% of racehorses are poor quality and the racing is there for them and for their owners and trainers and for the 30-40 racecourses that depend on staging poor quality meetings for all these poor quality horses. I don't think it should be a matter of concern that there is far too much racing for an average punter to stay on top of all the form.........it's up to the punter to specialise in something or restrict his interest to a certain proportion of the total racing.

[billy the punter]

Re: Is there too much racing?? I just can't get my head around group races myself. I'll only bet on certain races, handicaps (Class 2,3,4 less so 5/6 thesedays), claimers and the occasional maiden. Therefore I want as much racing as possible so there are enough of these races around.

[bowles10]

Re: Is there too much racing?? another poin i must raise is that regions must be catered for, we had a debacle a couple of weeks back when we had all meetings in southern england & nothing up north. I never understand when they have a meeting at Sandown & Newbury in same day, or Ascot & Kempton. Personally, surely the fixtures can be sorted into this type of blueprint: Mondays - 2 day mtg, 2 night mtgs max. Tuesdays - 3 day mtgs Weds - 2 day mtgs, 2 night mtgs Thurs - 3 day mtg, 2 night mtgs Fri - 3 day mtgs, 2 night mtgs Sat - 5 day mtgs max. 2 night mtgs Sun - 4 day mtgs max. That looks plenty to me & still lower than we have currently. Note i have given the industry 1 night off more (on a Tuesday). They deserve it! Mtgs should be more than 50 miles apart as a rule. I realise there are a number of jobs formed out of these fixtures, not only on course, but the late night bookies for example.

[WorkingForTheEnemy]

Re: Is there too much racing??

That looks plenty to me & still lower than we have currently. Note i have given the industry 1 night off more (on a Tuesday). They deserve it!

Cheers Bowles. So I get to sit at work bored out of my head even more than I am when we have just 2 punters in when there is night racing on, because you know Laddies aren't shutting just because there's no racing on. :ok

[bowles10]

Re: Is there too much racing??

Cheers Bowles. So I get to sit at work bored out of my head even more than I am when we have just 2 punters in when there is night racing on, because you know Laddies aren't shutting just because there's no racing on. :ok

Thats the problem isnt it. They should shut on the night there isnt racing. They dont open Sunday night so cant see why they have to open 6 nights a week for Fred & Jack to pop in & spend £1.50 each on a dog forecast! I feel sorry for you guys having to work these shifts. I can see why you want as much going on as possible!:ok

[WorkingForTheEnemy]

Re: Is there too much racing?? Personally I dont mind the hours. Im contracted to 37 hours a week which means I can do 3 full days and an evening. That leaves me the best part of 4 days off a week. Personally I'd rather do that than 9-5, 5 days a week.

[Trotter]

Re: Is there too much racing?? I'm currently following 2 things........ Group One races in the UK, Ireland & France. There's not many of these , 2 or 3 a week on average through the season, doesn't take much time to compile basic notes on the runners and results. It goes without saying that these include all the races that you'll remember in 5 years time, the 'great' horses, the champions, the ones that will go down in history. This is for love of the sport, it's irrelevant whether I bet on these races or not, I study them to enhance my enjoyment. Sprint handicaps........I started with 'Sprint handicaps', realised there were just too many so limited it to Class 2 and 3, still thought there were too many so have now limited it to 5 furlong handicaps.........there were now too few so have expanded it to 5 Furlong handicaps classes 2, 3 and 4. This seems to turn up about 1 race a day on average, which is perfect for my time rationing. Obviously the aim here is to thoroughly get to know a subset of the horse population in depth for betting purposes, in the hope that my in depth knowledge will give me an edge.

[jtw1]

Re: Is there too much racing??

I just can't get my head around group races myself. I'll only bet on certain races, handicaps (Class 2,3,4 less so 5/6 thesedays), claimers and the occasional maiden. Therefore I want as much racing as possible so there are enough of these races around.

You'll not be surprised to learn i'm totally the opposite to yourself Billy , I really can't handle Handicaps at any level . They just do my brain's in :wall Give me a Listed or Group race anytime ;)

[Cassius Marcellus]

Re: Is there too much racing?? Loads of racing yesterday. Today, Ripon (Yorkshire) Market Rasen (Lincolnshire) and Fakenham (Norfolk) Southerners got the day off.

[JackJarvis]

Re: Is there too much racing?? Far too much racing imo and too much quantity rather than quality.

[BillyHills]

Re: Is there too much racing?? My only concern is that with the increased fixture list the prize money has gone down, I cant say it is having an effect right now, i mean look at Wolver tomorrow night, plenty of runners in all races. Think its a disgrace when the prize for a handicap is just over 2 grand, it must end somewhere i feel, how the hell can you keep bad horses in training these days. I'm aware that the majority of owners are not in it for the money, its just an expensive hobby but there must come a point where its madness to continue throwing money away. They must all be owned by syndicates I reckon? The bookies run the game nowadays, they would like morning meetings to return (remember them) afternoons and evening ones every single day, which is why the beem them in from all over.

[Gingertipster]

Re: Is there too much racing?? Yes, there is too much racing and far too much poor quality stuff. Class 5 and under. I had an offer of a free day out to Bath today. When I saw the quality of the racing I made a diplomatic excuse. What rubbish. I have an awful record in this grade, it seems a horse with no form at all can improve slightly and win. So what hope do we form students have of working out the percentages? Cav and Billy obviously know something I don't. When prize money is so low connections have very little chance of making a profit with a horse without a betting coup. This unintentionally encourages skulduggery. Don't think it goes on as much as most punters seem to think but when it happens it is in low grade racing. On the other hand connections should be grateful of getting anything back with such animals. Apart from holiday crowds racecourses struggle to get punters through the turnstiles. There is an argument it brings money in to the levy, but I wonder how much. When the authorities think of making a change with anything they ask trainers and owners what they think. The more horses in the yard the more money a trainer makes. The fewer runners in a race the less competitive a race is, the easier it is to win. So it is in their best interests to have more racing and the less competitive the better. Breeders may not actively breed poor horses but they know they have a safety net now, so they can get away with breeding a poorer animal. Even with the fair grade stuff there is too much. Salisbury staged a race last week, a 0-85 handicap, the most valuable race on the card. Only 4 turned up, with a top weight rated 73. Some 12 lbs poorer than the race should be attracting. Trainers have too many options for their horses these days. I am a racing fanatic, I love the sport, not just the betting. Even though I specialise in the higher echelons the low grade material is turning me, and many of my racing pals, off racing. Ginge

[Cassius Marcellus]

Re: Is there too much racing??

This unintentionally encourages skulduggery. Don't think it goes on as much as most punters seem to think but when it happens it is in low grade racing. On the other hand connections should be grateful of getting anything back with such animals.

Skullduggery is more than likely to occur in the lower grades than the 2, 3 and 4 classes, because there is so much deadwood in them. If a trainer has set his horse up to win, with the prize e money on offer, it's a lot easier than trying to set him up for The Stewards Cup or races of that ilk. I don't keep records of the first two home in the lower class fare, but I'm willing to bet that what the betting reflects what is termed as a 'two horse race', you wont see the first and second favourites battling it out for garbage prize money. One of them will not be sighted when they cross the line. This leads me to beleive that when a 'two horse race occurs' trainers talk to each other the night before. With the aid of Betfair, and people doing the number crunching for them, it's possible to make more by backing or laying than it is to win the prize money. It has always been thus in my opinion, but Betfair has made it easier. Instead of everybody that knows piling into a horse and slaughtering the price down to nothing, you can now lay the 'wrong'un' instead, and keep the price of the 'future winner' at short, but reasonable, odds.

[billy the punter]

Re: Is there too much racing??

Yes, there is too much racing and far too much poor quality stuff. Class 5 and under. I had an offer of a free day out to Bath today. When I saw the quality of the racing I made a diplomatic excuse. What rubbish. I have an awful record in this grade, it seems a horse with no form at all can improve slightly and win. So what hope do we form students have of working out the percentages? Cav and Billy obviously know something I don't. When prize money is so low connections have very little chance of making a profit with a horse without a betting coup. This unintentionally encourages skulduggery. Don't think it goes on as much as most punters seem to think but when it happens it is in low grade racing. On the other hand connections should be grateful of getting anything back with such animals. Apart from holiday crowds racecourses struggle to get punters through the turnstiles. There is an argument it brings money in to the levy, but I wonder how much. When the authorities think of making a change with anything they ask trainers and owners what they think. The more horses in the yard the more money a trainer makes. The fewer runners in a race the less competitive a race is, the easier it is to win. So it is in their best interests to have more racing and the less competitive the better. Breeders may not actively breed poor horses but they know they have a safety net now, so they can get away with breeding a poorer animal. Even with the fair grade stuff there is too much. Salisbury staged a race last week, a 0-85 handicap, the most valuable race on the card. Only 4 turned up, with a top weight rated 73. Some 12 lbs poorer than the race should be attracting. Trainers have too many options for their horses these days. I am a racing fanatic, I love the sport, not just the betting. Even though I specialise in the higher echelons the low grade material is turning me, and many of my racing pals, off racing. Ginge

Although I don't like group races, I don't like low grade handicaps, I've said this a thousand times. I prefer Class 2/3, maybe 4 if horses are dropping down. But I do like claimers - claimers are very different the same as a low class handicaps, as you know. The usually have Class 2/3/4 handicappers in them, and besides the aren't running for prize money - they are in the shop window. Claimers are as straight as can be, due to this. Plus they have more quality in them than a low grade handicap. A claimer should not be talked about in the same breath as a class 6 handicap. I too struggle in Class 5/6 handicaps but my bets are few and far between in them these days, which is why I specialise in Upper Class Handicaps. Hence the thread. For me, I find the 2nd tier of racing (in terms of class) has the perfect mix of class/competition.

[Cassius Marcellus]

Re: Is there too much racing?? Lower class races are not too good for favourite backers.

[mowgli77]

Re: Is there too much racing?? I just find it hard to be excited or enthusiastic about some of the lower class racing, especially some of the class 6 aw races. These horses seem to race against each other every week with them repeatedly reversing form. If you study these type of races I guess you could do really well and know when a horse is on a winning mark or has no chance. The initial question was: Is there too much racing? I'd also ask: Is there too much poor racing? I like to see the best horses race against each other rather than it just being racing snobbery and enjoy the handicaps and maidens when I am at a race meeting but feel you can't beat top class Gp1 races. To see a jockey sat motionless on a horse like Ouija Board, Falbrav or Azamour and see it possess a blistering turn of foot to accelerate past horses is just fantastic and for me what racing is all about. Watching Our Kes win a class 6 handicap at Wolverhampton doesn't have the same effect. ;)

[mowgli77]

Re: Is there too much racing??

Lower class races are not too good for favourite backers.

Which is exactly why people like Cavelloman make money on them. :ok

[Cassius Marcellus]

Re: Is there too much racing?? This seasons odds-on flat jollies, while I'm posting figures :ok

[Cassius Marcellus]

Re: Is there too much racing?? Something wrong at line 272/273, I'll have to check that later.

[Cassius Marcellus]

Re: Is there too much racing?? That's better.

[Cassius Marcellus]

Re: Is there too much racing?? FFS!! Alzheimers setting in :loon Cell H282 should read 28.

[Gingertipster]

Re: Is there too much racing?? Don't keep cooking acid foods in aluminium pots and pans Cassius. I have forgotten more about Alzheimers than you will ever know mate.:lol 5 out of 7 of my grandmothers brothers + sisters got it. Ginge

[Gingertipster]

Re: Is there too much racing?? Are there things those who make a profit on poor class stuff take in to account, that we alzheimers sufferers do not? Ginge

[billy the punter]

Re: Is there too much racing??

I just find it hard to be excited or enthusiastic about some of the lower class racing, especially some of the class 6 aw races. These horses seem to race against each other every week with them repeatedly reversing form. If you study these type of races I guess you could do really well and know when a horse is on a winning mark or has no chance. The initial question was: Is there too much racing? I'd also ask: Is there too much poor racing? I like to see the best horses race against each other rather than it just being racing snobbery and enjoy the handicaps and maidens when I am at a race meeting but feel you can't beat top class Gp1 races. To see a jockey sat motionless on a horse like Ouija Board, Falbrav or Azamour and see it possess a blistering turn of foot to accelerate past horses is just fantastic and for me what racing is all about. Watching Our Kes win a class 6 handicap at Wolverhampton doesn't have the same effect. ;)

It's weird. To me the sport is all about handicaps/handicappers and classics/classic horses. In the two instances you can really see horses progress, you can see if you get it right throughout the year, be it a well handicapped horse at the start of the season, or a maiden winner you think can win the Derby. With the classic types it is you versus the ante post odds compilers. With the handicappers it's you versus the handicapper (every year I slaughter him ;)). Last Saturday I said Valery Borzov will be at highly handicapped horse come season end. I think I said it is a 10lb+ higher horse, this may be a bad example as he will probably he raised that straight away, but some aren't as harshly punished. And you get a horse to follow all year that you know is well in. Can you get rewareded this way in those older horse group races, especially the sprints - you win, I win, you win, I win. Like anything though, it's whatever suits. No one is right or wrong.