Your move?

[Woodie]

Like 12 or 11 left 18 got paid but top 9 better paid. Whistlecrew has been raising big a few to many times. What is your action here when last to act? ***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 336840102 ***** NL Texas Hold'em $5 Buy-in + $0.50 Entry Fee, Level:17 Blinds(4,000/8,000-400 ante) - Friday, April 04, 22:15:48 GMT 2008 $600 GTD Turbo $5+$0.50 NLH #138387 Table 1 9-max (Real Money) Seat 5 is the button Total number of active players : 7 Seat 1: poolidol ( 4,096 ) Seat 2: littletac ( 12,181 ) Seat 3: lochsong2 ( 24,901.50 ) Seat 4: whistlecrew ( 110,858 ) Seat 5: FWLANAFW ( 23,118.50 ) Seat 7: rensy1 ( 46,558 ) Seat 8: jon16 ( 66,287 ) Tourney Level:17 Blinds(4,000/8,000-400 ante) poolidol posts ante [400] littletac posts ante [400] lochsong2 posts ante [400] jon16 posts ante [400] rensy1 posts ante [400] FWLANAFW posts ante [400] whistlecrew posts ante [400] rensy1 posts small blind [4,000] jon16 posts big blind [8,000] ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to jon16 [ Qh, Ah ] poolidol calls [3,696] poolidol goes all-in littletac folds lochsong2 folds whistlecrew raises to [27,000] FWLANAFW folds rensy1 goes all-in rensy1 raises to [46,158] ??????????????????

[Guest]

Re: Your move? It seems there might be as many as 13 or 14 left in the tourney at this point. I've made the money, so my aim here is to try to win the thing ! I'm thinking the raise by whistlecrew is a standard big stack, blind stealing raise (if everyone folds he is pretty much in a no lose situation with the side pot). So he makes this raise with a pretty wide range. Maybe he has a hand, but the bet of nearly twice the pot should be enough to scare all but the most premium of hands off it as it puts all but you and rensy in for their life. Putting Rensy on a range of hands will depend on how you perceive him. Has he shown enough guile throughout the tourney that he could try and take the (now bigger) sidepot from whistle with an all in ? If so, his range would include many marginal hands that would put you on a near coin flip situation against him (but most likely as the slight favourite). In this case, my game plan here would be to move all in also. You have nearly 2:1 on your money (somebody check my maths!) and also if you lose you have him covered and are still in the tournament. If you seriously think Rensy is not brave enough to make this play without AA, KK or AK, lay down. It would take a lot for me to do this but sometimes your gut tells you !! BTW, unless Whistle has one of the 3 top hands, I expect him to lay down to your all in raise. Interested to know what others think as my tourney play definitely needs improving and my strategy may be the reason I crash and burn so often !!

[daftpegasus]

Re: Your move? I'd fold. AQs is a great drawing hand but that's it. It's not a made hand and you are going up against at least 2 opponents. We can disregard Poolidol as his stack is too small to be anything other than a minor irritation if he won the hand. Whistle has enough chips to call and has almost pot committed himself even if you go all in. The worrying person is Rensy. He knows he's going to get called and yet has thrown all his chips in anyway. Unless you have a specific read on him, you have to put him on a decent hand. Whether or not it's better than AQs we don't know, but he's currently the SB so he could fold and easily wait a few hands for better cards to shove with. So you're up against 2 or 3 if you call with a drawing hand and probably all in, hence my fold and I'd wait for a better opportunity.

[JulioArca]

Re: Your move? Fold. Rensy knows that whistler cant fold for the extra 19k chips so I would put him on AK as a minimum, possibly a pair higher than JJ. AQs is still only Ace High, a definite fold and wait for another spot to get the chips off Whistler.

[happyhornet]

Re: Your move? Yeah, agree with DP and Julio. Rensy must know that his raise will be called by the big stack (extra 19K into an 80K pot), thus he must think his hand is strong enough. To me that puts him on a middle pair or better, AJs or better. You are at best a coinflip against his hand. Factor in thar the big stack will call your raise (an extra 40K into a 145K pot), and both he and the all-in shortie could both catch hands to beat you, and I'd recommend folding.

[SteveO]

Re: Your move? Very easy fold you. You only have one bb invested in the hand and still have plenty of chips. You can't call with AQ and if you shove whistlecrew has to call for the huge odds. You don't have to worry about poolidol's hand but against the other 2 you're asking a lot to expect your AQ to hold up.

[Woodie]

Re: Your move? Thanks for the feedback. A month ago I would of called instantly but in the end I folded the hand.. turns out I would of split the pot, he's how it ended up ***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 336840102 ***** NL Texas Hold'em $5 Buy-in + $0.50 Entry Fee, Level:17 Blinds(4,000/8,000-400 ante) - Friday, April 04, 22:15:48 GMT 2008 $600 GTD Turbo $5+$0.50 NLH #138387 Table 1 9-max (Real Money) Seat 5 is the button Total number of active players : 7 Seat 1: poolidol ( 4,096 ) Seat 2: littletac ( 12,181 ) Seat 3: lochsong2 ( 24,901.50 ) Seat 4: whistlecrew ( 110,858 ) Seat 5: FWLANAFW ( 23,118.50 ) Seat 7: rensy1 ( 46,558 ) Seat 8: jon16 ( 66,287 ) Tourney Level:17 Blinds(4,000/8,000-400 ante) poolidol posts ante [400] littletac posts ante [400] lochsong2 posts ante [400] jon16 posts ante [400] rensy1 posts ante [400] FWLANAFW posts ante [400] whistlecrew posts ante [400] rensy1 posts small blind [4,000] jon16 posts big blind [8,000] ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to jon16 [ Qh, Ah ] poolidol calls [3,696] poolidol goes all-in littletac folds lochsong2 folds whistlecrew raises to [27,000] FWLANAFW folds rensy1 goes all-in rensy1 raises to [46,158] jon16 folds whistlecrew calls [19,158] ** Showdown ** poolidol shows [ Ks, 9h ] whistlecrew shows [ 3s, 3c ] rensy1 shows [ As, Qc ] ** Dealing Flop ** [ Qd, 4h, 4s ] ** Dealing Turn ** [ 7d ] ** Dealing River ** [ Jh ] ** Hand Conclusion ** rensy1 wins 89,228 from side pot #1 with two pair, Queens and Fours rensy1 wins 17,584 from main pot with two pair, Queens and Fours ************ Game 336840102 ends ************

[Guest]

Re: Your move? Figures Im a month behind you then Woodie .... !!! You've seen what I would have done .... maybe I'll change my approach .... thanks all

[AJ]

Re: Your move? Haven't read any of the responses, but just the orginal post. It's a very very easy fold, AQ up against two all-ins, no thanks. You have plenty of chips to play another hand, let this puppy go.

[ubermonkey1]

Re: Your move? yeah same for me as well:ok if you were against 2 small stacks then it would be a probable call,but vs 2 big stacks its a easy fold ,especially as the payout for top 9 is a lot better. by the looks of the stacks around you i would be playing fairly tight till you get to top 7-8 or so, maybe trying to take on a few shorties on route . as long as your stack is at least a third of the big stack you know that 1 double up you can go top ,so theres no need to hurry into something .after all you cant win the tourney then and there ,only lose it:ok

[DM99]

Re: Your move? About the only thing you could possibly call with here are AA or KK. You're not in any danger so just sit this hand out!

[Dodger]

Re: Your move? Up against two stacks who each only have say a third of your chips each...AQs is a lovely hand to show down with...at least if you lose the hand then you are not out of the game. But up against two big stacks it's a totally different proposition and has to be a fold. I used to overplay AQ to A10 suited preflop...they do look so damned nice but can do you irrevocable damage many a time.

[glceud]

Re: Your move? Dont see ths as such an easy fold as everyone is making out. Theres 7 at the table making a min of 13 left. Its a Turbo and every one is forced into making these big moves. No matter how much me more there is for 10th to 9th the real money is in the top 3. I'd be reraisng all in and aiming for number 1 spot. The big stack has the odds to call and you more than likely have him doninated Making the side pot big enough to be worth winning even if you lose the main pot.

[billy the punter]

Re: Your move? Even if the 3rd all-in didn't happen, I wouldn't even contemplate a call. You are approx 1,000,000,000,000/1 to be in front.

[Valiant23]

Re: Your move?

Thanks for the feedback. A month ago I would of called instantly but in the end I folded the hand.. turns out I would of split the pot, he's how it ended up

Its a classic example of the Gap Concept. Its annoying when you agonise over a call and do the right thing only to find you had the winning hand(or best hand pre flop). As Glceud says though, a Turbo skews your decision making and forces you to gamble more, but I'd have to say that to a raise and re-raise even in a turbo you're going to think you're behind. Unless you have a specific read on a player or are short stacked, there isn't any real pressure to play though.

[glceud]

Re: Your move? Theres 87,662 chips in the middle when you make your choice- its costing you 38,000 to call or if you reraise and the big stack folds the same 38,000. So theres only 2 hands you arent getting the odds to Isolate with. If the big stack calls you will hopefully at worst be coinflip to win the side pot and with your read on him you could be a big Fav. Its always easier to get your chips in first but if you want to win Sometimes you have to gamble and this is one of those times. The only way I wouldnt be in this pot would be if it was a sattelite or a tourney way above my normal buyin. I might lose that hand and get knocked out but I am sure I have won a lot more tourneys than I have finished 13th in.

[billy the punter]

Re: Your move?

Theres 87,662 chips in the middle when you make your choice- its costing you 38,000 to call or if you reraise and the big stack folds the same 38,000. So theres only 2 hands you arent getting the odds to Isolate with. If the big stack calls you will hopefully at worst be coinflip to win the side pot and with your read on him you could be a big Fav. Its always easier to get your chips in first but if you want to win Sometimes you have to gamble and this is one of those times. The only way I wouldnt be in this pot would be if it was a sattelite or a tourney way above my normal buyin. I might lose that hand and get knocked out but I am sure I have won a lot more tourneys than I have finished 13th in.

Firstly, the big stack is never going to pass to a reraise, it would only be 40k more to him, the pot by then would be astronomical and he would still have around 50k if he lost it. Secondly, odds and value mean nothing in freezeouts, especially at this stage. I understand what you're saying, it's a gamble for a big stack, but you have a nice stack anyway and a real chance of winning this. There is no need to gamble. I'd be aiming to PLAY my way to a good prize here. There is ample pre-flop stealing opportunites here in hands where the big stack has folded. It's SUICIDAL to get involved with this hand.