POP Quiz (part XXIII) - Call Fold or Shove

[robilaruk]

unusual this - blinds are 100/200 and we still have 9 players :eek USC DK has been a bit quiet but has raised marginal junk from MP before (K10 etc) so whats my play - is this the time to shove and pick up a nice pot, call and see the flop or just fold and move on I think this is tricky and took my whole 15 secs before deciding - would be interested to know what others think, as I think (in hindsight) i could have made a better decision Damo 100.00/200.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 07 June 2007 22:19:01 Seat 1: robilaruk (2056.00) Seat 2: Swedda (2045.00) Seat 4: gigg33 (1127.00) Seat 5: superspino (2020.00) Seat 6: USC_DK (1850.00) Seat 7: BASTUU (1125.00) Seat 8: Themancunia (1705.00) Seat 9: ConteZero (810.00) Seat 10: morph394 (2262.00) morph394 post SB 100.00 robilaruk post BB 200.00 ** Deal ** robilaruk [Js, Ac] *** Bet Round 1 *** Swedda Fold gigg33 Fold superspino Fold USC_DK Raise to 600.00 BASTUU Fold Themancunia Fold ConteZero Fold morph394 Call 600.00

[Crouch Potato]

Re: POP Quiz (part XXIII) - Call Fold or Shove With a caller behind USC_DK I think I should fold this (What I should do and What I do do are sometimes too different). At best I think we are slightly behind one of these guys and at worst we're hopelessly dominated.

[Nade]

Re: POP Quiz (part XXIII) - Call Fold or Shove Personally i hate AJo so wouldn't push, but essentially it depends on the image of USC DK, you say he's raised with junk before so it's a possibility, but for me in MP he's only raising 3times the blind and that is a 'i want some action' bet so he has at least 10's imo. If he pushes i reckon he'd have acehigh - i'm going to stick my neck on the line and say he has Kings :loon He has something high so i'll put my 'reputation' on the line (as usual :lol). This is all massively in hindsight and depending on my mood i might push depending on what read i had on them then again i might fold - a case can be made for all 3 options imo it's really hard one to say what i'd 'definitely' do in that situation as if it happened in 3 consecutive STT it's quite concievable i'd fold, call and raise in each of them :\. Ultimately i'll say fold purely because it's AJo and the position; let the other two battle it out and wait for a better opportunity...

[GaF]

Re: POP Quiz (part XXIII) - Call Fold or Shove Tricky one, but I think you have to fold.....

[aimar21]

Re: POP Quiz (part XXIII) - Call Fold or Shove I think the caller makes it dangerous, fold is probably the best one.

[McG]

Re: POP Quiz (part XXIII) - Call Fold or Shove OK, here comes the novice answer. With 200 already committed, I'd be sorely tempted to cough up another 400 to have a look, ready to shove if the flop is favourable. I put morph on a small pair or a week Ace, so the odds aren't that bad. But (and it's a big but), I do often regret getting involved with AJ when I run into QQ with a Jack-high flop, or a better Ace.

[Tweetypie05]

Re: POP Quiz (part XXIII) - Call Fold or Shove Fold... out of position... with the SB calling the raise as well makes it hard to know where are you are post-flop. Would have to assume SB has AK, AQ or PP (T-A). USC could have anything... his 2xBB raise gives little info. as it is a fairly standard raise... Realsitically, with this hand what would you want to hit the flop? An A... how good is your kicker? A J... is there an overpair? Hence, the fold. Or at least that's would I should do IMO. If I had been playing though I probably would have gone ALL-in after a long dwell up... been called by ATs and lost to a T high straight. :lol So tell me what did you do and what was the outcome?

[robilaruk]

Re: POP Quiz (part XXIII) - Call Fold or Shove thanks all so far - of the three options I think calling is shabby and a womble play, so I think it boils down to shove or fold really and I agree, its a really tough decision Tweety - if the SB is on the range you say - he should be shoving, he does not want to limp call and have no idea OOP how his hand is - that WOULD be a bad play IMO (even with AA as it might tempt me to call for pot odds and then he is 65/35 to win the hand rather than at least 80/20) McG - not a novice answer at all - I can see the logic in calling for the pot odds, and if I had 3K rather than 2K that would be my play, to see a cheapish flop and hope to hit a monster - but in this case I think 400 is too much out of 2K, hence why it is a poor play I will leave it for another day before answering Tweeties question about what I did - I think now I played this poorly and should have made a different decision Damo

[GaF]

Re: POP Quiz (part XXIII) - Call Fold or Shove

With 200 already committed' date=' I'd be sorely tempted to cough up another 400 to have a look,[/quote'] I hear that said quite a lot, but the $200 you've committed is no longer yours - it belongs to the pot - you've already spent it. Money that you have already spent should not be considered - what is important is what you have to spend ($400) and how much is already in the pot ($1400) .... you're getting just over 3-1, out of position, with 2 opponents. You only have 1400 left, so implied odds are low. Read the first few paragraphs of Nick Wealthalls article in this months Poker Player, for his view on "your money" in the blinds..... ;)

[Teazz]

Re: POP Quiz (part XXIII) - Call Fold or Shove For me this has got to be a Fold. Calling is a weak play, and even if you hit the flop you may be behind. If you go all-in you will more than likely get a caller judging by what each player has left, and I would expect you to be behind to pair or a bigger Ace

[Tweetypie05]

Re: POP Quiz (part XXIII) - Call Fold or Shove

Tweety - if the SB is on the range you say - he should be shoving, he does not want to limp call and have no idea OOP how his hand is - that WOULD be a bad play IMO (even with AA as it might tempt me to call for pot odds and then he is 65/35 to win the hand rather than at least 80/20) Damo

I agree... but think he intends to lead out ALL-IN on the flop with his high PP or he has called with a strong drawing hand (Axs, KJs etc) or just made a poor call. If he has mid-pair is he getting the odds he needs to call? 10% chance of hitting and probably 20% of having an overpair to the flop I would guess (some-one on here probably knows the numbers better). I assume from your response I was a million miles away. What would you call with in this situation and how would you then play the flop? You are commiting 1/4 of your stck to this pot! Not much room to manoeuvre. STTs are not my speciality, in case you hand't noticed! Not sure I have one! :$

[robilaruk]

Re: POP Quiz (part XXIII) - Call Fold or Shove if Morph has a high PP or AK he is better shoving PF to get HU with USC and shoving the flop with AA if it is 248r will probably only win him the pot, but by geting it in PF USC might call with his KQ etc the mid pair call PF is also bad - you are 7-1 to hit trips and if an A or K flops (about 1 in 3) how do you feel about it now? of course if the flop is 248R and he has 99 he has to be feeling good here, unless USC has 1010+ etc re 1/4 of my stack - you are correct, calling is rubbish, as I said make it 3K stack and calling is viable, make my stack 1200 and I am shoving, I am in the middle ground here what I did was to fold, in hindsight I think I should have shoved, USC is a bit stuck and his range is fairly wide, and so he might fold with another caller to act behind him as he is squeezed between the 2 of us (he shouldn't fold but he might) and I don't mind the call either as this might make morph fold against 2 - and unless morph does have a monster I think his call smacks of Ace small, KJ, 910suited, or a small PP, all of which I am happy to be up against if he calls when/if USC folds Didn't get to see what cards they had as USC shoved the flop and morph folded I think this one was poorly played by me thanks for all the responses Damo

I agree... but think he intends to lead out ALL-IN on the flop with his high PP or he has called with a strong drawing hand (Axs, KJs etc) or just made a poor call. If he has mid-pair is he getting the odds he needs to call? 10% chance of hitting and probably 20% of having an overpair to the flop I would guess (some-one on here probably knows the numbers better). I assume from your response I was a million miles away. What would you call with in this situation and how would you then play the flop? You are commiting 1/4 of your stck to this pot! Not much room to manoeuvre. STTs are not my speciality, in case you hand't noticed! Not sure I have one! :$