Fold or call - pop quiz time

[robilaruk]

Pop quiz folks - have paid the BB, do I call for another 324? Damo Hand #353167106 at table: 5 Player $30 NL Started: Sun Jul 02 13:46:43 2006 X-stra is at seat 1 with 524.00 schurik187 is at seat 2 with 2624.00 HERO is at seat 3 with 1420.00 yo343 is at seat 5 with 2632.00 robilaruk posts the large blind 200.00 schurik187 posts the small blind 100.00 schurik187: --, -- HERO: 4h, 7c yo343: --, -- X-stra: --, -- Pre-flop: yo343: Fold X-stra: All in schurik187: Fold

[moFace]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time depending on mood again but id usually fold i think

[Pocket Lady]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time I would fold on this one mate, there is the possibility that the all in has a monster - you don't really have the cards to justify a call for a quarter of your stack.

[Tax_Monkey]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time I'd fold, I really can't see any justification for calling this.

[Valiant23]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time Harrington says yes, which means for me its an absolute no! :lol :lol :lol To be fair, I have lossened up as regards taking small risks like this, but 47os? No ta.

[Tax_Monkey]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time

Harrington says yes, which means for me its an absolute no! :lol :lol :lol

:eekI'd like to see his reasoning:\

[robilaruk]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time see if you can work it out Damo

:eekI'd like to see his reasoning:\

[viggosen]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time Chickens lol, to me thats a call (but a close call). When you have so much more than him, then its purely a Chip EV question for me, and even if you asume he is so tight he will only move in with a top hand like 66+,ATs+,AJo+, its a call, and I think he must be mucg loser, he has 2½ BB left the he will get in the blinds in 2 hands, if I was in his spot I would be much loser, any pair, any A, any 2 cards over T, would be plenty.

[Tax_Monkey]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time

see if you can work it out Damo

I'm guessing Harringtons is saying that he's so short stacked he's shoving with any old crap, and therefore you should call regardless of your cards because you need his chips to give you any chance of winning. Or something along those lines.

[robilaruk]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time NOT BAD! thats a good start - but there is more to it anyone else? Damo

I'm guessing Harringtons is saying that he's so short stacked he's shoving with any old crap' date=' and therefore you should call regardless of your cards because you need his chips to give you any chance of winning. Or something along those lines.[/quote']

[bigmal76]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time where it might help is the fact that both your cards are a near cert to be "live" cards but i would still more than likely fold.

[Masterplan]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time 4 left, top 2 pay, fold while you have >5 bb left imo, if you had

[Tax_Monkey]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time ok round 2:lol Your also pretty shortstacked yourself so if you fold your BB your soon going to have an M of less than 5 and under Harington your again shoving with any cards into an unraised pot. EDIT: BTW I'm saying this but doesn't mean I agree with it. If you shove with crap it's still crap no matter how small your stack

[robilaruk]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time not bad! but still missing the final piece of the jigsaw Damo

ok round 2:lol Your also pretty shortstacked yourself so if you fold your BB your soon going to have an M of less than 5 and under Harington your again shoving with any cards into an unraised pot.

[PokerBarney]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time Pot odds. The pot would be 824, and you have to pay another 324, which is almost 2:1. With 74, you're probably 2:1 underdog against a random hand.. and you've got live cards, and you've got to go for the win..

[robilaruk]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time BINGO! actually I have 2.5:1 to call easy call given villians shoving range any two broadway, any pair 88+ A6+ he is a 68 - 32% fav In fact if you expand his range its even closer Damo

Pot odds. The pot would be 824' date=' and you have to pay another 324, which is almost 2:1. With 74, you're probably 2:1 underdog against a random hand.. and you've got live cards, and you've got to go for the win..[/quote']

[robilaruk]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time if he is only playing 99+ AK and AQ he is 75:25% easy peasy lemon squeezy :ok in fact he was playing AQ and called me a fish for hitting my 4 :zzz Damo

[Pocket Lady]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time

if he is only playing 99+ AK and AQ he is 75:25% easy peasy lemon squeezy :ok in fact he was playing AQ and called me a fish for hitting my 4 :zzz Damo

:rollin:rollin:rollin

[Tax_Monkey]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time Thanks for the education . I would never have called in a month of Sundays with those cards but I can now see why it would be a worthwhile call. I might have to read up on this Harrington guy:lol

[georgej]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time Good to know - something i'll need to look at. I still wouldn't call though - i not only look at what i'll be left with, but what it'll give my opponent to play with should he win. I'd rather have an extra few hundred to invest in better cards. But thats just me :)

[Tweetypie05]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time Close call either way... I would probably save my chips for a better hand but these 5 players games are a different ball game to 8 or 10-handed or MTTs. I don't play them much but would expect a looser level of play so maybe the call is correct. If you lose though it's going to be ALL-in with the next 'decent' hand and cross your fingers. On the other hand it's always enjoyable when you take some-one out with something like a 74o... when you can afford it! I suppose that's just sour grapes having had AA knocked out by rubbish 3 games in a row... and one of them by Sharpey 'making a move' with J9o... I assume it was a move or he thought I was making one?! :unsure

[PokerBarney]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time Here's a good example of such a situation: PokerStars Game #5440094915: Tournament #27467588, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2006/07/03 - 09:54:11 (ET) Table '27467588 3' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 2: whatabadplay (3606 in chips) Seat 4: kattunge (2761 in chips) Seat 5: LFK51 (18530 in chips) Seat 6: PokerBarney2 (8320 in chips) Seat 7: oeftc90 (1991 in chips) Seat 8: RODMAN248 (16677 in chips) Seat 9: poopalicious (15615 in chips) whatabadplay: posts the ante 50 kattunge: posts the ante 50 LFK51: posts the ante 50 PokerBarney2: posts the ante 50 oeftc90: posts the ante 50 RODMAN248: posts the ante 50 poopalicious: posts the ante 50 LFK51: posts small blind 400 PokerBarney2: posts big blind 800 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to PokerBarney2 [Ts Qs] oeftc90: raises 1141 to 1941 and is all-in RODMAN248: folds poopalicious: folds whatabadplay: folds kattunge: folds LFK51: folds PokerBarney2: calls 1141 *** FLOP *** [2d 7c Js] *** TURN *** [2d 7c Js] [7s] *** RIVER *** [2d 7c Js 7s] [6s] *** SHOW DOWN *** PokerBarney2: shows [Ts Qs] (a flush, Queen high) oeftc90: shows [Ac 6h] (two pair, Sevens and Sixes) oeftc90 said, "BS" PokerBarney2 collected 4632 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 4632 | Rake 0 Board [2d 7c Js 7s 6s] Seat 2: whatabadplay folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: kattunge (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: LFK51 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 6: PokerBarney2 (big blind) showed [Ts Qs] and won (4632) with a flush, Queen high Seat 7: oeftc90 showed [Ac 6h] and lost with two pair, Sevens and Sixes Seat 8: RODMAN248 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: poopalicious folded before Flop (didn't bet) He gave me loads of mouth afterwards.. I tried to explain odds, but I don't think his primary school teacher had got that far in maths ;)

[friskyfitz]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time Happened me this morning and led to me sending a complaint off to VC about his conduct. This started about 3 pages of abuse towards me from not just him but TWO players :lol:lol:lol

$2 - NL - 6 Seats - Turbo	10192486-11	Holdem No Limit	300/600
[Jul 3 12:58:24] : Hand Start.
[Jul 3 12:58:24] : Seat 2 : friskyfit has $2,840
[Jul 3 12:58:24] : Seat 3 : dogjaw has $2,120
[Jul 3 12:58:24] : Seat 4 : MCPO has $660
[Jul 3 12:58:24] : Seat 5 : weazeld1 has $6,380
[Jul 3 12:58:24] : weazeld1 is the dealer.
[Jul 3 12:58:24] : friskyfit posted small blind.
[Jul 3 12:58:25] : dogjaw posted big blind.
[Jul 3 12:58:25] : Game [11] started with 4 players.
[Jul 3 12:58:25] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Jul 3 12:58:25] : Seat 2 : friskyfit has 5h 7s
[Jul 3 12:58:31] : Stakes: 300/600 Current level: 7 Next level in: 1 min.
[Jul 3 12:58:32] : MCPO called 600 and raised 60 and is All-in
[Jul 3 12:58:32] : Under-Raise rules are now in effect.
[Jul 3 12:58:37] : weazeld1 folded.
[Jul 3 12:58:39] : friskyfit called 360
[Jul 3 12:58:41] : dogjaw called 60
[Jul 3 12:58:41] : Dealing flop.
[Jul 3 12:58:41] : Board cards [2h 7d 2s]
[Jul 3 12:58:44] : friskyfit bet 600
[Jul 3 12:58:46] : dogjaw folded.
[Jul 3 12:58:47] : Showdown!
[Jul 3 12:58:47] : Seat 2 : friskyfit has 5h 7s
[Jul 3 12:58:49] : Seat 2 : friskyfit has 5h 7s
[Jul 3 12:58:49] : Seat 4 : MCPO has Qh Kc
[Jul 3 12:58:50] : Stakes: 300/600 Current level: 7 Next level in: 1 min.
[Jul 3 12:58:55] : Board cards [2h 7d 2s Ac 8d]
[Jul 3 12:58:55] : Seat 4 : MCPO has Qh Kc
[Jul 3 12:58:55] : MCPO has Pair: 2s
[Jul 3 12:58:55] : Seat 2 : friskyfit has 5h 7s
[Jul 3 12:58:55] : friskyfit has Two Pair: 7s and 2s
[Jul 3 12:58:55] : friskyfit wins 1,980 with Two Pair: 7s and 2s
[Jul 3 12:59:05] : Hand is over.

[robilaruk]

Re: Fold or call - pop quiz time don't get me wrong, I am not advocating calling every time, but as a rule of thumb if you are getting over 2:1 for a call its worth THINKING about at least (and if 3:1 a defo call, even with 7/2 off etc) A few things that swayed me here to call one - I am short stacked as well, I need the 824 chips and I have already paid the BB, so its only another 324.......:( the 824 represents 60%+ of my current stack, its an enormous amount compared to what I have to invest (about a 1/4 of my stack) two - I am in shoving mode anyway at this point given my stack to the blinds, so lets take the chance to add to the stack and give me more shoving power (or at least a few chips to see a couple of blinds at least) three - I am the only other player in the pot, if i had been in the SB with say 2K in chips it is going in the bin because I don't know what the BB is going to do four - by calling the other players see my loose calling range, so they are less likely to play at my blind for at least the next round as I will play back (of course those with some brains will see the call as purely pot odds based, rather than a maniac playing any two) - so hopefully I get a free round five - if I call and lose, it makes people more inclined to call a shove by me at some point in the next few hands, as they see me as very loose, so hopefully I pick up a decent PP and get a caller for my shove :eek six - I want to WIN, not limp through and get blinded out, so I need the chips seven - If I call and lose and still have 5BB's or so to shove with can I suggest that for those of you that don't have it - get pokerstove, and play around with some card match ups http://www.pokerstove.com/ you will be amazed at what I could concievably call with against the villians shove :lol, I am only really behind to PP 88+ 85/15% - against 2 over cards I am only a 2:1 dog Hope this helps Cheers Damo

Good to know - something i'll need to look at. I still wouldn't call though - i not only look at what i'll be left with, but what it'll give my opponent to play with should he win. I'd rather have an extra few hundred to invest in better cards. But thats just me :)