I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this?

[robilaruk]

Hi all in response to Mr V's post here http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30489&page=2 Two Years ago I started with Sporting Odds with £100 deposit, played the 5/10c limit ring games, $1 STT's and $1 MTT's, made my $100 bonus (the one they still have) and had a bankroll of about $300. After about 8 months of playing similar buy-ins I got lucky in a $2K freeroll and achieved second for another $300. Fortunately for me, I had found the 2+2 forums about 2 months before and this helped me make the final table. I found that I was better suited to STT's than ring games (I am REALLY shite at real money tables LOL) and started to seriously play the $5.50's and multitable them, 2 at first, then 3, then 4. I did this for about 6-8 months, My BR grew so I stepped up the the $11's and crushed them, so after only a couple of months or so I was two tabling the $22's and my BR hit $1200. This is easy! so I missed the $33's and played the $55's, I won my first three and figured I was a star and moved straight away onto the $109 short handed, ITM in a couple and lost a few, ignored the losses and carried on, and within a week my BR was down to $700, so I stepped down to the $55's and kept losing, and when my BR was just less than $200 I thought is best to play the $22's again, needless to say I lost and at $70 my computer got turned off for two weeks. I sat and thought about what I had done, I had $70 in my account after 16-18 months of play. At the end of the fortnight I was really glad this had happened, because I realised I didn't have a clue about money management or understanding variance, but 2 weeks of trawling through the 2+2 forums had shown me what a muppet I had been, (like not keeping any records of wins/losses/games played etc) So I went back to what I was good at, the $3.30 STT's and set TARGETS. At $120 I stepped up to the $5.50's, at $250 the I mixed in the odd $11's, at $400 the odd $22's as well and then January 2006 came and I had a great month in the $UP winning about $400 or so, my BR was about $800 at this point so I concentrated on the $22's, multi-tabling them and mixing in a few $33's when the BR hit $1500, but the grind and lack of progress over the last couple of months has got me down. So I decided to single table the $109's for 10 games (the same buy-in as multitabling the $22's/$33's) to see if that would help my game and results, and it has. I am more focused on the game, have improved my reads and actually enjoy playing as well. I know that my BR is not really sufficient to play the $109's, but it is growing showing a profit at the mo! ROI of 64.6% and ITM of 64.7%. I do not expect those stats to continue, but the BR is a lot healthier now! So why the change, why step up with an insufficient BR. As they say, "Been there, Bought the T-shirt". I have learnt from my previous mistakes and am a better player now, I consider myself a slightly above average player, who can get even better over time, by working at and studying my game, to remove the leaks and improve. I needed to see if I could actually play at higher levels and play well, and whether my game had improved enough to do so - I thought it had, but the proof of the pudding etc..... I have long term ambitions to earn enough that my wife does not need to work and can look after our baby girl full time, and with her support I can achieve it. This goal is important, I have learnt that by setting goals, my game has improved and there is a reason for playing. I have targets for every session I play now, as well as weekly/monthly/yearly targets, without these I feel I just drift along and don't actually do anything useful. Its been a fecking long road, and my confidence has gone from sky-high to the deepest darkest pit you can imagine. I truly believe that being down to $70 was the best thing for my game, as i have had to earn my money back and with it become a better player. I just need to step up my game to actually play the $109's consistently well and have a plan in place when the downswing happens, I wont be as stubborn and stupid as I was before. Mr V asked the hows and why's of getting a BR to play the $109's. This is my (ongoing) story, I hope it answers his (and your questions) - feel free to ask if not. Cheers Damo :cheers

[slick mick]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? Another excellent post Damo. I'm about to venture into similar territory but with a mix of cash games and stt's with the occasional value mtt as well. I've done fairly well in stt's and mtt's, never deposited, withdrawn a few $k and have about $1k left as a bankroll. The big question for me is how do you keep track of what you're doing. I'm considering either poker spy, poker office or the cheap way out just using a spreadsheet. Would welcome your thoughts on this.

[robilaruk]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? I use this http://www.bluefeetpoker.com/2p2SNGspreadsheet.zip to keep records of STT's (you can manually add ring games and MTT's as well) it is a fantastic spreadsheet, and calculates everything you need - when you start the tourney you start a macro and it records the time and your finishing postion - and then calculates you result and updates the total records. There are loads of stats on there (too many to mention, and don't worry about them to begin with, just focus on ITM and ROI and see what games you are ACTUALLY winning at rather than what you THINK you are winning at LOL). Once you have played 100 STT's you will start to notice basic patterns regarding your play, and after a 1000 a better idea of where you are best. If you need help setting this up give me a shout :) I don't use PT or PO, I understand they are better suited to ring games as the blinds don't change which skew the results (folks - yes/no???) Damo ps GOOD LUCK

Another excellent post Damo. I'm about to venture into similar territory but with a mix of cash games and stt's with the occasional value mtt as well. I've done fairly well in stt's and mtt's, never deposited, withdrawn a few $k and have about $1k left as a bankroll. The big question for me is how do you keep track of what you're doing. I'm considering either poker spy, poker office or the cheap way out just using a spreadsheet. Would welcome your thoughts on this.

[RacingCol]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? Hi Damo, I just wanted to say what a fantastic thread this is. I've only been playing poker now for a few months, so I obvoiusly still have a massive amount to learn and reading experiences like this really do help. I opened an account with Bluq Sq about 2 months ago and after winning a couple of $1 STT's, I maanged to win the bankroll booster freeroll. So I've turned my initial £10 deposit into a BR of £53. But guess what - I have no records!! The first thing I will be doing after writing this will be to check out the spreadsheet you mention so I can start to keep some records. Basically I'm continuing to play the $1 STT's until I'm consistently doing well in them. From memeory of the last 20-30 I've played I've won a couple, finished second and third in a couple and finished 4th in virtually all of the rest!! So a lot more work to be done I think before I crack it. I basically think I play far too tight. Sure I double up every now and then but I always seem to limp into the money rather than make it comfortably. Time, practice, reading......and plenty of record keeping for future analysis....will hopefully help :D Cheers, Colin

[robilaruk]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? Nice one Colin, keep rolling in the cash :) just keep playing and reading and keeping score and if you are not sure of hands around the bubble then post them here and see what PL'ers think is the best move Good Luck! Damo

Hi Damo, I just wanted to say what a fantastic thread this is. I've only been playing poker now for a few months, so I obvoiusly still have a massive amount to learn and reading experiences like this really do help. I opened an account with Bluq Sq about 2 months ago and after winning a couple of $1 STT's, I maanged to win the bankroll booster freeroll. So I've turned my initial £10 deposit into a BR of £53. But guess what - I have no records!! The first thing I will be doing after writing this will be to check out the spreadsheet you mention so I can start to keep some records. Basically I'm continuing to play the $1 STT's until I'm consistently doing well in them. From memeory of the last 20-30 I've played I've won a couple, finished second and third in a couple and finished 4th in virtually all of the rest!! So a lot more work to be done I think before I crack it. I basically think I play far too tight. Sure I double up every now and then but I always seem to limp into the money rather than make it comfortably. Time, practice, reading......and plenty of record keeping for future analysis....will hopefully help :D Cheers, Colin

[suebrugge]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? Great thread Damo - and thanks very much for the link to that spreadsheet :ok I downloaded it today and have just started using it this evening. Much more useful than the spreadsheet I'd knocked together myself :\

[Robbie1960]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? Thanks for that spreadsheet link Damo.....:ok :cheers

[moFace]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? hmm ROOOOB lol when you have a sec wouldnt mind trying to work this out unfortunatly last time i used excell was about 10 years ago

[Valiant23]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? Damo, thanks for this spreadsheet (downloaded today). :ok It looks like a serious peice of kit, one that I'd like to start using properly. If some one would be prepared to do a step-by-step for Mo and I, we'd really appreciate it. :ok

[robilaruk]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? I guess that we be me then will sort a user guide to it and post it in its own thread Damo

Damo, thanks for this spreadsheet (downloaded today). :ok It looks like a serious peice of kit, one that I'd like to start using properly. If some one would be prepared to do a step-by-step for Mo and I, we'd really appreciate it. :ok

[Valiant23]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? Ta mate. :notworthy I guess that entering values into certain fields creates other values in other cells, but for me the question is, "Where do you start?"

[robilaruk]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? new thread up and running http://www.punterslounge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30781 any probs, post them there Hope it helps Damo

Ta mate. :notworthy I guess that entering values into certain fields creates other values in other cells, but for me the question is, "Where do you start?"

[robilaruk]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? My first proper month of playing the $109's Well what can I say, i made the step up and was prepared to lose 10 buy-ins before stepping back down and it went well, in fact it went very very well early on and my confidence was high. The long term goal is to be winning at least £1K per month to replace Liz's wage and after doing well for ten days I placed 1st in a $109 STT full table (rather than the shorts as I had been concentrating on) - I was well chuffed and thought I would check the state of play regarding money won, and I was showing a profit of just under $1,800 - it then struck me that I had achieved £1K in ten days - I was gob smacked and really really excited, so much so I told the missus and got all happy. The computer went off for a day and I went back to playing, and then the reality of what happened hit me. I had made my target and here I was risking it, so what happened as a result? I played TOO tight, I went from TAG to a rock and a really really big rock as well, so big I wouldn't play anything remotely chancey, and so I lost 4 hands in a row bubbling in 3 of them - I got SCARED to play on the bubble, I was folding shoving hands (KJ etc) waiting for someone else to go out before me. I lost my confidence and it showed - so I stepped down the short handed $55's and lost five in a row there finishing 5 5 4 3 3, bubbling twice. At this point the computer went off for a couple of days and Liz very very perceptively said to me you have lost your confidence because "you spent too long checking your results and over analysing the results and worrying about winning", she added "you need to relax and just go play poker" So I went and played the $22's and $33's to get my confidence back and remember how to play aggressive around the bubble to preserve/increase my chip stack and it worked, Shoving K9 in the SB into a similar stack when you both have about 7 BB's left became easy again because I was only risking $20, not $100. This reinforced the need for a proper bankroll to properly play the $109's. So I finished the last couple of days winning a few $22 and $33 shorts and then playing the $55's and $109's, risking nothing but my winnings from lower buy-ins. So Plan B has been agreed upon with 'senior management' for July. I will continue to play the $109's but mix in a few $22's and $33's to pay for them rather than concentrating solely on the $109's and worrying about the bankroll. Oh and I will still be checking my stats, but not freaking out when I hit the magical $1800+ profit for the month again! :) Lessons learnt this month are proper bankroll play with confidence play TAG poker (not an ultra tight rock) don't worry about losing a few be prepared to change the plan and work at it make moves when necessary don't tilt when you reach the money target you set yourself Cheers Damo :cheers

[robilaruk]

[Penelopeys]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? Do you play them at Sporting odds?? I am in them quite often too... haven't seen you yet, but will for sure if you're on SO :ok

[robilaruk]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this? yes I do (did) short tables mostly though as the full tables never seemed to fill anyhoo, am defo going to give them a miss now, don't need you beating me as well ;) (you're too good pene, I can wait awhile and get my game back together before I step back into the shark infested waters:ok ) Damo

Do you play them at Sporting odds?? I am in them quite often too... haven't seen you yet, but will for sure if you're on SO :ok

[Penelopeys]

Re: I play $109 STT's - how did I manage this?

yes I do (did) short tables mostly though as the full tables never seemed to fill anyhoo, am defo going to give them a miss now, don't need you beating me as well ;) (you're too good pene, I can wait awhile and get my game back together before I step back into the shark infested waters:ok ) Damo

:lol :lol :lol nah... I'm just a lucky muppet...