aliando Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 i ask this as, given that it seems to be the (?) best pocket hand, why does itseem to fail so often? Is it just bad luck or is it common? I had it three times tonight and lost out to 2,7 - 4,6 and then 8,10 :wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall - I'm sure i raed this week with someone else suffering the same with ace/king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! ALWAYS... Fold that hand :wall :wall :wall :wall He he... (sometimes it does win... but you have to play it right to win it... BIG initial raise... or a flat call so it won't hurt you to fold it if nothing on the flop) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guesswest Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! AK is certainly not the best pocket hand, every pair up to and including deuces is a better starting hand. The principle value in AK is folding equity, as penelope says - the idea being that unless you're unlucky enough to run into aces or kings, if the pot is worth taking you can bet big knowing that you have the 50/50 as a BACKUP. That makes it +EV play to push with because you only need to be getting folds some of the time. It's not a hand you want to be all in with pre-flop as a caller, unless the blinds are compelling you to do so. You're not even a big favourite against unpaired undercards, 70%ish. Edit: And another problem with the 50/50 stat on AK - if you're not all in with it pre-flop, is the 50/50 stat is based on all five cards. If you're just seeing a flop, and forced to fold if you miss, you're in much worse shape, and can be bet out of the hand without making a bad fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! Looking at my Poker tracker cash game stats....... For my 33,627 hands recorded, I have been dealt AKs 102 times and won 68% of the time with it. I average a profit of 2.82 times the Big Blind with it. I have been dealt AKo 303 times winning 65% of the time with it, for an average profit of 1.47 times the BB. Would be interested in others stats on these hands (my expectation would be for a higher profit with it :unsure) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliando Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! cheers for the replies - possible other variables include the card holder being a pissed numpty! :sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manfredd Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! AK is 9th best starting hand out of 169, 64.4% chance in heads up should mainly be played with aggression Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliando Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! Looking at my Poker tracker cash game stats....... For my 33,627 hands recorded, I have been dealt AKs 102 times and won 68% of the time with it. I average a profit of 2.82 times the Big Blind with it. I have been dealt AKo 303 times winning 65% of the time with it, for an average profit of 1.47 times the BB. Would be interested in others stats on these hands (my expectation would be for a higher profit with it :unsure) :loon holy fcuk - that is serious self anlaisation! :notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy - this is why you lot poker gods, me numpty - i can only just remember what i played tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokerose Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! Aks 67.7% Ako 64.4% Beats every pair in my stats 8 downwards In cash games I love it, avoid it like the plague in tourneys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosco Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! Too many times just busted out of the pokerplayer shootout on ak, caught an a but was busted by trip queens :cry:cry:cry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedonist Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! Just lost to Rednutt with AK suited in Betfair, short stack went all in, rednutt raised and I called. She hit a flush. Horrible hand :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliando Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! its a bit of a bitch of a hand aint it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! Well slapdash busted me out of the PNL $2k added with it - my trip JJJ lost to the str8....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! Well slapdash busted me out of the PNL $2k added with it - my trip JJJ lost to the str8....... Well, what do you expect from a muppet? ;) Currently chip leader, BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! Currently chip leader, BTW. Glad to see my chips are going to good use :clap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moFace Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! ak k on flop beaten by trip qs gl esby think it was pnl spin palace game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rednutt Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! I just lost with AK to K10 on a K high flop!!!! rivered with a 10:wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! there you go folks from the last 4 or 5 replies - conclusive proof that AK isn't that good! As with any non pair hand, its how you play it/position you are/your stack compared to the blinds/what has happened before. GaF can you run a similar analysis with J10 matey? be interesting to compare Ta Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr too often Damo :cheers Hand #274127457 at table: STT $20 NL Started: Fri Apr 21 22:29:45 2006 mummifar1 is at seat 1 with 1275.00 seaturtle1 is at seat 2 with 1370.00 Gabesy is at seat 3 with 2205.00 ugobaldo is at seat 4 with 1630.00 smed32 is at seat 5 with 1090.00 Eltel691 is at seat 6 with 2025.00 Bank$II is at seat 7 with 1325.00 robilaruk is at seat 8 with 1510.00 glombog is at seat 9 with 955.00 chitty96 is at seat 10 with 1540.00 Eltel691 posts the large blind 50.00 smed32 posts the small blind 25.00 smed32: --, -- Eltel691: --, -- Bank$II: --, -- robilaruk: Ad, Kd glombog: --, -- chitty96: --, -- mummifar1: --, -- seaturtle1: --, -- Gabesy: --, -- ugobaldo: --, -- Pre-flop: Bank$II: Fold robilaruk: Raise 200.00 glombog: Fold chitty96: Fold mummifar1: Fold seaturtle1: Fold Gabesy: Fold ugobaldo: Call 200.00 smed32: Fold Eltel691: Fold Flop (Board: 3c, 4c, Qc): robilaruk: Check ugobaldo: Bet 500.00 robilaruk: Fold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! JTs I have had 89 times and won 19.1% of the time (surprises me - wouldn't have thought I even played it that often!!!). I lose an an average of 0.51 BB per hand with this :loon My VP$IP with this is 66%!!!!! WHAAAAAAAATTTTTT??? I need to play it less ;) JTo I have had 279 times. I win with this 6.09% of the time. My VP$IP is 12% and I lose on average 0.12x BB when dealt this hand I DEFINITELY need to play JTs less often!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelopeys Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! Just out of spin in 35th.... with AKs... but HE had AKo .... Only HE hits a flush... YES... AK OFF.... :wall :wall :wall :wall :wall :wall :wall Well, at least one of the AK's won :sad :sad :sad :sad :sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! now that is interesting you win 3 times more often with it suited compared to os, yet lose more on average?? wow and notice the difference between suited/os VP$IP figs! that IS a leak Damo JTs I have had 89 times and won 19.1% of the time (surprises me - wouldn't have thought I even played it that often!!!). I lose an an average of 0.51 BB per hand with this :loon My VP$IP with this is 66%!!!!! WHAAAAAAAATTTTTT??? I need to play it less ;) JTo I have had 279 times. I win with this 6.09% of the time. My VP$IP is 12% and I lose on average 0.12x BB when dealt this hand I DEFINITELY need to play JTs less often!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! that IS a leak Yes - I REALLY need to work the Database and learn these lessons............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! why not start a thread GAf - I would be interested in discussing results (otherwise PM me a few if you prefer?) Am interested in knowing how it works and how valuable it is, coz I think I need it Damo Yes - I REALLY need to work the Database and learn these lessons............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaF Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! Tried a thread before, but didn't seem a huge amount of interest - will try again if you're interested :ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! can do - or by PM if you prefer (or email?) Damo Tried a thread before' date=' but didn't seem a huge amount of interest - will try again if you're interested :ok[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! Ignore my previous post - gotta love AK - especially 3 hands on the trot :) :) Damo and #275228873 at table: $250,000 Weekly Started: Sat Apr 22 22:49:20 2006 MALIBUB is at seat 1 with 2140.00 robilaruk is at seat 2 with 1655.00 ahmoooo06 is at seat 3 with 540.00 sfinx is at seat 4 with 6140.00 battie is at seat 5 with 2965.00 GaSSa is at seat 6 with 475.00 3rd-myst is at seat 7 with 2580.00 Poker0077 is at seat 8 with 3761.00 jonason is at seat 9 with 2940.00 Pippert is at seat 10 with 3064.00 robilaruk posts the large blind 300.00 MALIBUB posts the small blind 150.00 MALIBUB: --, -- robilaruk: Kd, Ac ahmoooo06: --, -- sfinx: --, -- battie: --, -- GaSSa: --, -- 3rd-myst: --, -- Poker0077: --, -- jonason: --, -- Pippert: --, -- Pre-flop: ahmoooo06: Fold sfinx: Fold battie: Fold GaSSa: Fold 3rd-myst: Fold Poker0077: Fold jonason: Fold Pippert: Fold MALIBUB: Fold Showdown: robilaruk shows: Kd, Ac (high card, Ace) robilaruk wins the pot of 300.00 by default (0.00 rake were taken for this hand) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hand #275229617 at table: $250,000 Weekly Started: Sat Apr 22 22:49:57 2006 MALIBUB is at seat 1 with 2140.00 robilaruk is at seat 2 with 1955.00 ahmoooo06 is at seat 3 with 240.00 sfinx is at seat 4 with 6140.00 battie is at seat 5 with 2965.00 GaSSa is at seat 6 with 475.00 3rd-myst is at seat 7 with 2580.00 Poker0077 is at seat 8 with 3761.00 jonason is at seat 9 with 2940.00 Pippert is at seat 10 with 3064.00 ahmoooo06 posts the large blind 300.00 robilaruk posts the small blind 150.00 robilaruk: Ks, Ad ahmoooo06: --, -- sfinx: --, -- battie: --, -- GaSSa: --, -- 3rd-myst: --, -- Poker0077: --, -- jonason: --, -- Pippert: --, -- MALIBUB: --, -- Pre-flop: sfinx: Fold battie: Call 300.00 GaSSa: Fold 3rd-myst: Fold Poker0077: Fold jonason: Fold Pippert: Fold MALIBUB: Fold robilaruk: All in ahmoooo06: Fold battie: Fold Showdown: robilaruk shows: Ks, Ad (high card, Ace) robilaruk wins the pot of 900.00 by default (0.00 rake were taken for this hand) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hand #275230616 at table: $250,000 Weekly Started: Sat Apr 22 22:50:48 2006 MALIBUB is at seat 1 with 2140.00 robilaruk is at seat 2 with 2705.00 ahmoooo06 is at seat 3 with 90.00 sfinx is at seat 4 with 5840.00 battie is at seat 5 with 2665.00 GaSSa is at seat 6 with 475.00 3rd-myst is at seat 7 with 2580.00 Poker0077 is at seat 8 with 3761.00 jonason is at seat 9 with 2940.00 Pippert is at seat 10 with 3064.00 sfinx posts the large blind 300.00 ahmoooo06 posts the small blind 150.00 ahmoooo06: --, -- sfinx: --, -- battie: --, -- GaSSa: --, -- 3rd-myst: --, -- Poker0077: --, -- jonason: --, -- Pippert: --, -- MALIBUB: --, -- robilaruk: Ac, Kh Pre-flop: battie: Fold GaSSa: Fold 3rd-myst: Fold Poker0077: Fold jonason: Fold Pippert: Fold MALIBUB: Fold robilaruk: All in ahmoooo06: Fold sfinx: Fold Showdown: robilaruk shows: Ac, Kh (high card, Ace) robilaruk wins the pot of 750.00 by default (0.00 rake were taken for this hand) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterplan Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! lol nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! had it 2 hands later as well :) in all i had AK 11 times during this tourney - 11 times!!!!!!!!! whats the odds of that then...... ;) Damo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterplan Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! stt or mtt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robilaruk Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Re: ?????how often does ace/king lose???!!!!!! MTT Only saw the flop once as well - raggedy - bet 1/2 pot and other player folded Damo stt or mtt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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