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Racing chat -Saturday 3rd Dec


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Just posting early because some big prices 

Becher chase 

Didero vallis    8.9 25/1 

Cloth cap     8.7  28/1 

Hill sixteen    8.5  12/1 

Gesskille    8.2 

Percussion   7.9 

Gesskille is,all the rage but he's only 6 yo and that just seems a little young for a race of this stature ...I might be wrong but I think its worth taking him on ...top3 are good prices so I'll try 5pt ew all 3 and 1pt rev forecasts top 4 

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3 hours ago, richard-westwood said:

Just posting early because some big prices 

Becher chase 

Didero vallis    8.9 25/1 

Cloth cap     8.7  28/1 

Hill sixteen    8.5  12/1 

Gesskille    8.2 

Percussion   7.9 

Gesskille is,all the rage but he's only 6 yo and that just seems a little young for a race of this stature ...I might be wrong but I think its worth taking him on ...top3 are good prices so I'll try 5pt ew all 3 and 1pt rev forecasts top 4 

Good luck with this Richard.  My 0.50 reverse forecast indicates that I will clear my YTD loss if they the top two come first and second ?.  The bookies are only giving 4/1 about Gesskille but I managed 1 pt win at 7.2 on Betfair Exchange.  0.50 win bets on the other three.  3.50 pts staked in all

Put another 10 pts to win on Gesskille at 7.2 with a view to lay it back to get at least my 3.50 points back for a zero liability ?

Edited by The Equaliser
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5 hours ago, The Equaliser said:

Good luck with this Richard.  My 0.50 reverse forecast indicates that I will clear my YTD loss if they the top two come first and second ?.  The bookies are only giving 4/1 about Gesskille but I managed 1 pt win at 7.2 on Betfair Exchange.  0.50 win bets on the other three.  3.50 pts staked in all

Put another 10 pts to win on Gesskille at 7.2 with a view to lay it back to get at least my 3.50 points back for a zero liability ?

Everyone fancies gesskille ....he could turn up and murder these ....but for me this is a tough tough race and he's going 5f further than last time and at age 6 hw just feels like formula 3 going into formula 1 for the first time....just not battle hardened .... 7.2 is a decent price so shot to nothing and if he's running well you can just roll the dice ....

Clear you ytd ??....who knows ...stranger things have happened...take that bet 10x and surely 1 has to land ...cmon the beauty's!!

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A cracking afternoon’s racing with the ITV team travelling to Sandown and Aintree. The feature races are the formers Tingle Creek and Aintree’s Becher Chase. The ground is on the soft side at Sandown for the chasers and softer on the hurdles course whilst Aintree will be racing on good to soft all round. Here’s my thought on today’s eight races.
 
Aintree 1.30
Only six chasers declared for this 3m 1F grade 2 Many Clouds Chase. Only 6lb cover the field on official ratings and with a short priced favourite Ahoy Senor who at around the 11/10 mark looks too short to my eyes with his lack lustre re-appearance effort fresh in the mind and his jumping mow under scrutiny. On his best form of last season of course he can win this but I’m happy to look elsewhere for some better value. Nicky Henderson’s JP McManus owned Chantry House is penalised 6lb here and seems to have two ways of running although first time out maybe the best time to play him. Last season’s Grand National winner Noble Yeats comes here on the back of a win at Wexford and is not out of it whilst Ruth Jefferson’s Sounds Russian is on the upgrade and is unpenalised here.
Sam Brown ran well on his re-appearance when third to Bravemansgame in the Charlie Hall, form that has already been boosted by the win of the 4th Paint The Dream, and can be competitive whilst Jeremy Scott’s Dashel Drasher is well treated by the weights and looks overpriced at a double figure price. In an open race I’m taking on the favourite Ahoy Senor and will dutch the pair of Dashel Drasher and Sam Brown.
 
DASHEL DRASHER 1 point win @ 12/1 BetVictor
SAM BROWN 1 point win @ 9/1 bet365
 
Sandown 1.45
Only four have declared for this year’s renewal of the Close Brothers Henry VIII Novices’ Chase run over just short of two miles. A hot favourite here is Jonbon (as long as trainer Nicky Henderson allows him to take part!) who is very hard to oppose. A top class novice hurdler last season who’s only defeat came at the hands of the freak that is Constitution Hill he made an impressive chase debut when beating two smart rivals at Warwick 17 days ago under regular jockey Aidan Coleman.
Boothill is his closest rival in the betting having won a decent Ascot handicap a fortnight ago and although officially rated only 5lb behind Jonbon I’ll be surprised if the favourites superiority wasn’t stronger than that. Unexpected Party is hard to fancy whilst rag Honneur D’jonc is way out of his depth (although will secure at least £4264 if completing). A no bet race for me but I’ld expect a comprehensive victory for Jonbon.
 
Aintree 2.05
The feature race of the day is the Becher Handicap Chase run over 3m 2F of the Grand National course. A bumper field of 23 will go to post and there is ample opportunity here for an each way bet (or two) with enhanced places. At the head of the market we have the Skelton’s Ashtown Lad who teed up for this in a warm handicap hurdle here a month ago when running well to finish third in a race that’s worked out very well with the winner and fifth going on to finish 2nd and 3rd in the Coral Gold Cup. He can be competitive and looks to give the Skelton’s a third consecutive big race winner on a Saturday. Oliver Greenall and Josh Guerriero’s Gesskille made his debut for his new stable when going down in a tight finish to Al Dancer over a five furlong shorter trip over these unique fences in the Grand Sefton a month ago and should run well if staying the extra distance. Back in third that day was Laura Morgan’s Percussion who was beaten 8L and can race here off of 7lb better terms. At four times the price Percussion is worth playing small each way.
My main selection though has to be last years winner Snow Leopardess who jumped really win that day to get the better of Hill Sixteen, who re-opposes on 3lb worse terms for a nose beating. She has excuses for her last efforts when pulling up with the first being the Grand National and on her re-appearance where she made a uncharacteristic blunder at the first where her jockey lost an iron and was quickly pulled up. If getting into an early rhythm the grey can repeat last years win and she’s the bet here with a small each way play on Percussion.
 
SNOW LEOPARDESS 1 point each way @ 12/1 William Hills 1/5th 123456
PERCUSSION 1/2 point each way @ 25/1 bet365 1/5th 123456
 
Sandown 2.20
Ten go to post for this two mile class 2 handicap hurdle. Warm favourite is the Harry Fry trained Love Envoi who makes her handicap debut having won 5 of her 6 starts as a novice last season culminating in victory in the mares’ novice hurdle at the Cheltenham Festival. She did get beat at Fairyhouse the following month when failing to beat Willie Mullin’s useful mare Brandi Love but that did come at the end of a busy season for her. She loves deep ground and despite her odds should be hard to beat.
The obvious each way play against her is Oliver Greenall and Josh Guerriero’s Homme Public who’s up 7lb for a cosy win at Wetherby on her re-appearance. The useful Toby Wynne takes the ride now and claims a valuable 5lb which will help negate his rise. He looks the each way bet here with Love Envoi not having had a run this season and skinny enough in the market.
 
HOMME PUBLIC 1 point each way @ 9/2 William Hill 1/5th 1234
 
Aintree 2.40
Thirteen line up for this class 2 2m 4F handicap chase. Richard Hobson’s Riders On The Storm was runner up in this last year to Clan Legend (more on him later) and was an excellent winner on his re-appearance over course and distance in the Old Roan Handicap Chase, a race that’s already worked out extremely well with the 2nd Hitman and 3rd Ga Law winning big races since. He looks the one they all have to beat with his love of this flat track (form figures of 1201).
One horse who looks well over priced is the Nick Alexander trained Clan Legend who has won the last two running of this race beating the aforementioned Riders On The Storm by 3 1/2L last year and is now 3lb worse off. On that running there shouldn’t be much between them but Clan Legend is currently six times bigger! He ran well on his seasonal debut when runner up over three miles and this drop to two and a half miles looks likely to suit. I’m happy enough to back both last years one - two here.
 
RIDERS ON THE STORM 2 points win @ 11/4 bet365
CLAN LEGEND 1 point each way @ 16/1 bet365 1/5th 1234
 
Sandown 2.55
Fingers crossed that all six run here in this excellent renewal of the Tingle Creek Chase run over just short of two miles. Edwardstone has missed a couple of engagements late in the day this season due to drying ground and last years Arkle winner has 15lb on official ratings to find with the front two in the market. Willie Mullins’ Gentleman De Mee beat Edwardstone at Aintree in April,but has questions to answer now following a disappointing re-appearance when unseating at the last at Naas when held. It’s hard to fancy Dunvegan whilst Funambule Sivola has a good record at around this trip with form figures of 112112112 and can outrun his odds of around 20/1 (it’s a shame no firm are betting three places in this six runner contest as he would of been worth chancing each way at those odds).
That leaves the big two in last year’s winner Greaneteen, trained by Paul Nicholls, who comes here on the back of an impressive win in the Haldon Gold Cup at Exeter a month ago and Nicky Henderson’s Shishkin who’s the bet here. Mrs J Donnelly’s chaser had won all seven of his chases coming in to the Champion Chase at Cheltenham in March when it was obvious from an early stage that he was never travelling and Nico de Boinville pulled him up after the 8th. It may have been his lung busting effort 53 days previous when beating Energumene at Ascot that was the reason or a rare bone disease that it transpired he was suffering with but one things for sure had he not run at Cheltenham he would be an odds on shot today. If back to his best surely he wins this.
 
SHISHKIN 2 points win @ 11/10 bet365
 
Aintree 3.15.
A class 2 handicap hurdle concludes the day’s action at Aintree with thirteen going to post. Top weight Langer Dan appears to have plenty of weight off of twelve stone though obviously needed his last run so shouldn’t be dismissed easily. If there is a horse here who could blow these away it’s surely Nicky Henderson’s Walking On Air, who was pulled out at Newbury last weekend due to the drying ground. This will be his handicap debut with his trainer talking him up in recent stable tours. David Pipe’s Sizing Pottsie has been given a chance by the handicapper who has dropped him 10lb for his recent second whilst Oliver Greenall & Josh Guerriero’s Herbiers is another who could run well following his easy Newbury victory last month.
A tough handicap but it has to be Walking On Air who spent the Summer recuperating at Coolmore following a disappointing run at Aintree in April when he didn’t get the ideal preparation. He could end up a fair stayer, like his mother Refinement, and I’ll take him to take this off of what may well turn out to be a very lenient mark of 132 under Sean Bowen.
 
WALKING ON AIR 2 points win @ 10/3 bet365
 
Sandown 3.30
Eleven staying chasers line up for the last of the day at the Esher track for the class 2 3m 5F London National Handicap Chase where I think the top three in the handicap are the ones to be concentrating on. Favourite is Harry Fry’s Revels Hill who ran a good first run of the season at Ascot last month when runner up over an inadequate trip of 2m 5f and looks sure to go well. The only negative for him is the price at around the 15/8 mark. Venetia Williams is having her typical purple patch currently and her Quick Wave has to be a player here especially if strong in the market. Not seen for 327 days (which is never usually an issue with Williams’ runners) she looked good when hosing up at Ludlow when last seen and is now 7lb higher in the weights.
Deise Aba is my pick though, with a good record at Sandown of 1122 with the two defeats coming by a head and a nose including in this very race a year ago, he’s been teed up for this by his trainer Philip Hobbs by running over hurdles a month ago (form that has worked out well) and despite the steadier of ten stone looks sure to run well and I’ll play each way with the firms paying an extra place.
 
DEISE ABA 1 1/2 points each way @ 4/1 William Hill 1/5th 1234
 
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Becher chase

I think  DOMAINE DE  L'ISLE is well worth an  e/w play at 40's may even go bigger trainer has the blinkers back on this horse is very low in the weights if jockey can keep him interesered  could run a  very big race was  a 22l back in 4th at 66/1 in this last year mark was 147 just 132 today hoping the  blinkers  help this moody sort keep his mind on the job for me off this wieght and price worth a play e/w 6p bog.

Irish horses always worth a look in these big handicaps and i have played  RECITE A PRAYER @ 16/1 6p bog  from the Mullins yard   is in good form and  should run its race,

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Great racing again tomorrow and lots to look forward to.

 

In the second race at Wetherby William Cody is backed to get us a flying start to the day. Awinner of his last race, form franked by the third horse winning next time out, William Coady won going away that day and may have more to offer over fences. Currently 13/8 with nothing available on the exchanges as yet....update, 3.2 taken this morning, tbp to follow............................................................................result 2nd, 2Tbp was 1.89

In the 2.05 at Aintree Ashtown Lad was selected by his trainer to go for this race in the stable tour a couple of months ago, they love to win the big Saturday Handicaps and they might just go close here. Given a pipe opener in a hrdle race at Aintree in a Class 2, he did wellfinishing 3rd, a race where the winner has come out and finished 2nd in the Coral Cup Handicap Chase at Newbury and the 2nd and 4th have come out to win next time out, a decent way to start the season. Back over fences trading at 8.4, on a decent mark of 138 the call is to back him win and place in the 5Tbp market.................Ashtown Lad a nice winner, good price at 8.4 and got 2.4 in the 5Tbp market, happy days.

In the 2.40 at Aintree, Riders On A Storm is on a wonderful mark if back to his best, gets in here off a mark of just 141 having won over this course and distance in a Grade 2 race in October, a race where the 2nd and 3rd have come out to win quality races next time up. Previously rated as high as 162 just 2 years ago, if the Hobson team have him back to anywhere near his best then he wil surely give us a good run for our money tomorrow. Currently 5.7 and on the drift as some money comes in for the Skelton horse, will also back in the 4Tbp market nearer the off........result......jumped poorly and never a danger

In the 2.55 Sandown Shishkin is the class horse of the race, just the one defeat when he was pulled up in The Queen Mother Champion Chase and was foud to have a bone condition at the time. Greanateen is a smashing horse but if Shiskin is back to his best then there's only one winner for me. I took 2.4 for this one on the exchanges, the one thing we know about Hendersons coming back from injury is that the market will tell us more about his chances, much more, closer to the off...........drifted to 3.5 not long after the off, never travelling, sad for the horse.

 

Good luck whatever you back/lay tomorrow.

 

Edited by jonjo
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12.42 Fairy House , Cayd Boy 11/4 4th

1.30 Aintree , Chantry House 5/1 Unseated early 

2.05 Aintree , Fortescue 25/1 ew 4th staying on very well 

2.40 Aintree , Riders On The Storm 3/1 nowhere 

3.15 Aintree , Benson 13/2 2nd 

3.30 Sandown , Deise Aba 9/2 4th 

Sandown Double 4.65/1, Love Envoi/Shishkin lost 


35 points staked 

Edited by Villa Chris
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Knight in Dubai (5/1). Looked the winner at Bangor last time and will surely win a race soon...hopefully tomorrow! Run under his belt and slight drop in trip should suit.

 

Never even looked like getting involved, maybe ground a bit lively ?

Edited by yossa6133
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This weekend’s big handicap is the Becher Handicap Chase, run over the Grand National course at Aintree. This premier handicap is run over 3 miles and 2 furlongs and is open to horses aged 6 or older. It should be a good spectacle to watch as there are 21 fences for the horses to overcome. Off time is 2.05 and 23 go to post.

It is not a good guide for Cheltenham but 2 winners have gone on to win the Grand National, Amberleigh House and Silver Birch.

Many bookmakers offer each-way terms of 6 places which makes the race an excellent betting proposition.

WATCH THE CALORIES

I have looked at the statistics over the last 9 seasons and these are my key conclusions.

1.       It is difficult to lug heavy weights around this course. There have been 64 horses that have carried more than 10st 12lbs and only 1 has won. Lighter weights have a record of 8 from 108.         

2.       Horses bred in Ireland have a poor record with just 2 wins from 94 attempts compared to 7 from 78 for those horses bred in other countries.

3.       This is not a good race for fancied runners. Horses with forecast odds of 16/1 or higher have a record of 5 wins from 84 runners compared to 4 from 88 for their more fancied opponents.

Just 2 horses fit these criteria, DIDERO VALLIS (22/1) and PERCUSSION (18/1).  

I suggest backing these each way with bookmakers who are offering 5/6 places.

Further statistics that may prove relevant.

French bred horses have a particularly good record with 5 wins from 51 runs. DIDERO VALLIS is bred in France, PERCUSSION in the UK.

Horses ideally need time to recover from their last run. Horses that last ran less than 22 days ago have a record of 0 wins from 36 attempts. DIDERO VALLIS last ran 13 days ago, PERCUSSION 28.

Relatively unexposed horses have a decent record with 6 winners from 90 runners compared to 3 from 82 for their more experienced rivals. DIDERO VALLIS has run 31 times, PERCUSSION 12.

The ideal age is 9, with 4 wins from 43 attempts. DIDERO VALLIS is 9, PERCUSSION is 7.

Gavin Sheehan, who rides PERCUSSION, won this race in 2017 with Blaklion.

Nigel Twiston-Davies has the best record in this race with 6 winners in the last 30 years. This year he saddles Fantastikas.

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5yo selections

Lucky 15 in bold

COURSE TIME  SELECTION ODDS 
Wetherby 0.48 Court At Slip 7.00
Sandown 1.10 Halo Des Obeaux 5.00
Wetherby 1.58 Kellahen 2.25
Chepstow 2.12 Could Talkaboutit 14.00
Wetherby 2.33 Harry Du Berlais 6.50
Chepstow 3.22 Haston Clermont 20.00
Sandown 3.30 Red Happy 28.00
Wolverhampton 5.20 Super Den 6.00
Wolverhampton 7.20 King Of The South 1.88
Wolverhampton 7.50 Jack The Savage 66.00
Wolverhampton 8.20 Daheer 12.00
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Good morning

A nice youngster running a first group 1 race in Australia this morning.

Ascot 8.45

AMELIA’S JEWEL
Has been making a very good impression in minor races over in Australia.
She has been putting in some taking displays in listed class races. Two group two wins.
Has a very good jockey on board as she steps up to group 1 this morning. ( Peter carberry)
She is 5/6 only a second place blots her copybook. races off a featherweight with three year old and fillies allowance.
Has it all to do against hardened elders and boys here but is drawn in stall 1. Ideal stall in a group race is low preferably stall 3 or 4.
Irish bred aga Khan horse out of Dam Bumbasina sire siyouni.  Dam's sire  canford cliffs.

I am having speculative fiver on her but,

Just a watching brief as she steps up in class but it is worth highlighting a potential star of the future.

Edited by sporting sam
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Some stable switchers:

11.35 Fairyhouse I am Maximus 5/4......poor jump at the last, would have won if he jumped straight, better jockey won the race imo, still traded as low as 1.03 so an easy trade out.

2.47 Chepstow Manor Bank 16/1......................................5th at 33/1

Dream Harder (IRE)5.20 Wolverhampton 17/2............Won easily at a Bfsp of 15.5

Bearaway (IRE)8.20 Wolverhampton9/1...........................drifted like a barge and was never in the race, plum last.

 

and 3 from a system named silly system!!:

   
  Notes
Noble Yeats (IRE) 1.30 Aintree 9/1
Time To Get Up (IRE) 1.37 Chepstow 10/1
Tyre Kicker (FR) 12.20 Aintree 13/2

 

Tyre Kicker traded to 1.12, beaten on the run in, only third but an easy trade out..

Noble Yeats finished ike a train an won, 9/1 lovely early price to get too.

Time to get Up, never a factor.

Good luck everyone.

Edited by jonjo
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24 minutes ago, jonjo said:

A couple of stable switchers:

11.35 Fairyhouse I am Maximus 5/4

2.47 Chepstow Manor Bank 16/1

 

and 3 from a system named silly system!!:

   
  Notes
Noble Yeats (IRE) 1.30 Aintree 9/1
Time To Get Up (IRE) 1.37 Chepstow 10/1
Tyre Kicker (FR) 12.20 Aintree 13/2

 

Good luck everyone.

Doesn't look like a silly system to me.  Do you have details to post up?

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11.45 Aint Our Marty 0.25 ew at 40/1(Lucinda Russell's horses running well).  Top two look to be skinny odds

Will post up others later

12.20 Aint Tyre Kicker 1 pt win at 7.0 (4th in the market line up but I like Gavin Cromwell so think it's worth a shot)

1.10 San Scarpia 025 pts ew at 16/1 and Sidi Ismael 0.50 ew at 8/1

Edited by The Equaliser
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12 minutes ago, jonjo said:

Hi, its a system based on where the horse ran last time to where the horse is running this time!

What do you mean by this?  
 

I’ve looked at the Welsh national trial and struggling to find a bet . Too many ifs and buts, but your selection Time To Get Up rated highly. Just concerned about trip being tad short . 

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Its a system I've been running now for 12 months or so and its showing great promise, the problem is of course that the losing runs are long as the strike rate is only 18%, most of the selections are horses that ran at certain courses last time and are running at certain courses this time.

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BET365 4/1 TV offer selections

I was going to call this a day but the last selection, Djelo, won at 11/1 so I'll perserver a bit longer.

This meant that November showed a profit of £100 despite just 2 winners from 18 selections.

Overall still a bit rubbish with 39 winners from 332 selections and a loss of £2,647.50.

Today's selections

SAND 2.20 Hermes Boy 5/1
AINT 2.40 Gunsight Ridge 4/1
AINT 3.15 Harbour Lake 4/1
SAND 3.30 Eclair De Guye 11/2
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Quite a few today consisting of a few mb offers and used free bets.

Winner already at Chepstow 1153 top of the bill.

Mb.dbl

1455 San shiskin & 1515 ain walking on air - +7/1

1440 ain riders on the storm & 2020 wol queen of ipanema  - +6/1

 

Sandown treble

1235 west balboa, 1420 love envoi 1345 Jon on- -9/1

1405 ain gesskille

Plus fb used on Ashtown lad

1440 San mb4 Knight in dubai

Also last night used a fb on gunsight ridge @ 7s

1420 mb offers x 2 love envoi and home public, 4 &3 pl resp

Ain 1515 itv4  Harbour lake

San 1530 itv4 deise aba

Wol 1750 demilion 

Going to purchase some coral bet bundles so will use that too and see how I go as well as use a few free bets.

Still waiting also if 888sport site is up on Sandown races as cant bet any at the moment.

 

Good luck all.

 

 

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12 hours ago, The Equaliser said:

11.45 Aint Our Marty 0.25 ew at 40/1(Lucinda Russell's horses running well).  Top two look to be skinny odds

Will post up others later

12.20 Aint Tyre Kicker 1 pt win at 7.0 (4th in the market line up but I like Gavin Cromwell so think it's worth a shot)

1.10 San Scarpia 025 pts ew at 16/1 and Sidi Ismael 0.50 ew at 8/1

No luck so far

2.40 Aint Knight In Dubai 6/1 (1 pt win at 7.4)

3.15 Aint Walking On Air 10/3

6.20 Wolv Pocket The Profit 11/4 (2 pts win at 4.4 My PL Nap today)

1 x 1 pt win Trixie  = 4 pts poss return of 186.58

Singles and savers

1.30 Aint Noble Yeats 1 pt win at 6.2

2.33 Weth Harr Du Berlais 1 pt win at 7.2

2.40 Aint Wishing And Hoping 0.25 ew at 22/1

------------------------------------------------------

Just one winner today.  It's a pity that Pocket The Profit was denied a win by a neck from a 10/1 shot but at least it ran to expectations.  This created a small loss of 4.40 on the day which wasn't too bad considering. This makes an MTD of -4.02 and YTD of -267.46

Only two meetings tomorrow but they look interesting.  Don't know if @richard-westwood may take a look at the 1.05 at Kelso Scottish Borders National Handicap Chase.  the favourite is 4/1 so there looks to be scope for a bet

Edited by The Equaliser
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