New to Betting? The Lucky15,31,63

[Zilzalian]

Lucky 15 = 15 bets- 4 singles 6 doubles 4 Trebles and one accumulator.                                        Double the winning odds if you just get 1 winner. and 10% extra for all 4*

Lucky 31 = 31 bets- 5 singles 10 doubles 10 trebles 5 fourfolds one accumulator.                         Double the winning odds if you just get 1 winner and 20% extra for all 5*

Lucky 63 = 63 bets- 6 singles 15 doubles 20 trebles 15 fourfolds 6 fivefolds  one accumulator.    Double the winning odds if you just get 1 winner and 100% extra for all 6*

*The bonus's vary depending on which bookie you use.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Zilzalian

[calva decoy]

New to betting ? 

Stick to singles rather than bets made up by bookmakers , there's a good reason why they did this , to make even more profits .

[Zilzalian]

52 minutes ago, calva decoy said:

New to betting ? 

Stick to singles rather than bets made up by bookmakers , there's a good reason why they did this , to make even more profits .

Lucky 15's were where i learnt my betting patterns and pretty much everything else i learned, good and or bad, about betting on horses. Back in the day when i had kids to think about when i was skint or had little money least of all for betting with they were ideal for having a dabble on the tv races for example and i got a lot of pleasure out of them without having to spend lots of money. I am sure you will agree there is little satisfaction in having 25p ew on a 4/1 shot so yes i will agree with you all day long about the singles being the best option but i have mentioned at the bottom of the article that it should be treated as a fun bet. @LEE-GRAYS got over £100.00 back yesterday on a 10p ew lucky 15 (3 winners) which sparked me to write this article. So yes singles are the "professional bet".  But a 10p or 20p ew lucky 15 is cheaper than a pint although i personally wouldn't do one each way i would just have a 10p win lucky 15 and attach a 25p ew acca to it just in case i got all 4 placed especially if i was keeping or having to keep my stakes down. The older i have got and the more disposable income i have so now i mix my betting up, i have on occasion had £1000 win on a horse but still like to play around with lucky 15's, I might add i have had a few up on quite a fair few occasions admittedly over years and even had 5 winners on a lucky 31 once which paid me £6,000 for a £9.30 layout, But again i have outlined/emphasised in the article that it is rare to get all winners on one of these bets. Might i also point out that the article is primarily explanitary and about how to work one out and the math involved, Its for those that might be thinking of or do lucky? bets who might not understand how they work. My betting these days is all about enjoyment, secondary is making a profit from it. When I came on this site i soon thought i like this, bit of banter, bit of fun with the competitions and there after i thought i would share, where i could useful information that might help others less experienced than me as well as bandying some ideas about.

[MCLARKE]

I also started out on accumulators, I always had a 6-4-1 on a Saturday.

It's a good fun bet but not one I do anymore.

[Zilzalian]

As  the thread is an explanatory/information thread, would you or anyone else like to contribute and explain the 6-4-1 bet for example, how it works, benefits and or drawbacks to it? Might be a good thing to have many different explainations of different types of bets/betting so that new inexperienced members can familiarise themselves with and maybe try some out. As we have seen there are many members who have different views and approaches to bets and betting. some suit some and some don't. Personaly i think a blanket statement that the best path to profit in betting on horses is the win single (which i agree with) is flawed and if not a bit misleading and instead to explain the many options as i have in my article to making your betting more varied and fun. I'm not sure there are many "professionals" on PL, i suggests lots on here just like to have a bet as a sort of hobby/interest and experiment a bit because as you know you cant just pick single bets out of thin air and expect to win you have to put in a lot of work which takes time which many members dont have and thats the flaw in the Singles only argument.

47 minutes ago, MCLARKE said:

I also started out on accumulators, I always had a 6-4-1 on a Saturday.

It's a good fun bet but not one I do anymore.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Zilzalian
glitch

[Valiant Thor]

18 hours ago, Zilzalian said:

anyone else like to contribute and explain the 6-4-1 bet for example

its a Yankee
6 doubles
4 trebles
1 Fourfold
Minimum double required for a return so average target odds must = 5/2 or greater for a profit

Edited August 29, 2022 by Valiant Thor
add txt

[Snoopdog]

On 8/28/2022 at 2:52 PM, calva decoy said:

New to betting ? 

Stick to singles rather than bets made up by bookmakers , there's a good reason why they did this , to make even more profits .

If you must do a multiple, here's my approach:

1. Nothing more than doubles

2. Use for bets between about 1/2 and EV

This approach keeps the number of bets down, and it's hard enough getting 2 winners.

NB: A pair of 1/2 chances in a double pays 5/4.   A pait of evens chances in a double pays 3/1.

[calva decoy]

1 hour ago, Snoopdog said:

If you must do a multiple, here's my approach:

1. Nothing more than doubles

2. Use for bets between about 1/2 and EV

This approach keeps the number of bets down, and it's hard enough getting 2 winners.

NB: A pair of 1/2 chances in a double pays 5/4.   A pait of evens chances in a double pays 3/1.

I think a lot depends on the individual & how they & what they want out of a bet .

I have a £25 bank each week with 2 separate bookmakers which I increase for Cheltenham & Ascot & my aim is to try & double my cash whereas some will throw on their Captain Glory Underpants & do multis mostly seduced by the large " possible returns " & which seldom see profit over the long term albeit even with singles & each way singles & despite being a fun / small stakes punter I'm one of the 93-95% of people who don't show a profit over a year though I suspect 80% + on this site will say that they do .

[MCLARKE]

You are right, most people will show a loss over a year, I'm sure I did for many years.

I have made a profit each year for the last 7 years but I have a very strict approach (I only bet singles) and keep meticulous records (I have made over 26,000 bets over the last 7 years).

My margin averages 5% so it's critical that I obtain the best odds available which often isn't possible with multiples.

[Gary66]

I'd definitely agree never become bookies fodder a singles only approach is much easier to make profit just be professional when on a poor run and don't back just fancys have a plan and strategy and stick to it

[Bang on]

1 hour ago, calva decoy said:

I think a lot depends on the individual & how they & what they want out of a bet .

I have a £25 bank each week with 2 separate bookmakers which I increase for Cheltenham & Ascot & my aim is to try & double my cash whereas some will throw on their Captain Glory Underpants & do multis mostly seduced by the large " possible returns " & which seldom see profit over the long term albeit even with singles & each way singles & despite being a fun / small stakes punter I'm one of the 93-95% of people who don't show a profit over a year though I suspect 80% + on this site will say that they do .

I have to agree, the "possible returns" avenue is just the road to the poor house. Bookmakers draw punters in with a dream for a few hours.

I bet mainly singles, and at 'generally' a minimum of 2/1. I do occasionally have a double but they would usually be EW doubles, with the place part providing a small profit. I also back 2 in a race... provided that the prices are worth it (usually 5/1+... 2 bets at 5/1 when only 1 can actually win is staking 2 points to win 6 .. 2/1 for the bet).

The ONLY time that I do trebles or above (and more than a treble is extremely rare) is on football. I like decent odds, and so doubles/trebles can produce a decent return ( 4/5, 4/6, 1/2 in a treble is 7/2). I mainly do doubles though as I try to avoid wherever possible the '1 let me down by drawing' situation (4/5 and 4/6 = 2/1).

I do make money as my records tell me (everyone should keep at least some sort of record), it is my only income these days, although not quite as much as I would like. I also take Sundays off... it gives me time for other things and help recharge.

As for the Lucky 15 ... it is not a bet that I ever do. Good luck to whoever makes it pay doing them.

[Zilzalian]

Might i suggest to all that the biggest problem with people doing a lucky 15 et al is that they are scared to death of putting a big price horse or two in them looking at some of these comments supports what i am saying. I think the one comment stuck out for me and it was made by @calva decoy" I'm one of the 93-95% of people who don't show a profit over a year though I suspect 80% + on this site will say that they do ." he is bang on the money with this comment and heres why. Most people dont make money on horse race betting, so why do they do it? One of the reasons must be for enjoyment, My brother once said to me without knowing whether i won or lost that i am a mug for betting on horses, Smiling i said in reply, its my enjoyment, i don't drink, i dont go out for fancy meals i go fishing and have a bet on the gg's. My brother continued his beratement until i asked him how much going out for a meal cost (something he does regularly more than once a week, he also drinks) when i pointed out his only return was enjoyment whereas my return was enjoyment and a monetary return now and again he shut the f*** up. Might i suggest to those advocating the win be only angle that is the professional way to back horses and the professional way also means hard work research and dedication, back in the day because of the 9 or 10% off course tax it was impossible to make a profit off course so the Professionals wouldn't bet unless they were on course. We now live in an information driven age where "its all out there" the reason you cannot make money just backing favs is simple, almost everyone uses the same information and backs in unison and the sp gets murdered. the only way to profit from betting gg's is therefore finding info that others miss, this was well documented by Nick Mordin when explaining his and or systems, they had a limited lifespan because the bookies always latched on and adjusted en mass. So how do you maximise your enjoyment should be the question not the win/lose argument. i wont use my own example in the "august experiment" thread but instead i will point to @LEE-GRAYS little experiment with small stakes lucky 15's he was lucky enough to get 3 out of 4 at 10/1 9/1 and 7/1 and returned over £100 for the small outlay of £3.00. dwarfing his returns for his singles part of his experiment. And there is my whole point about lucky 15's "the enjoyment factor" for small stakes. Yes i will agree that long term you will lose with lucky 15's (take that win out of lees experiment and he would be a just few quid down on the month) but every now and again you will probably have a decent payback and if your really lucky a serious one, RE. Lees bet again if the remaining gg had won he would have got around about £1,500 back for an outlay of just £3.00. I rest my case.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Zilzalian

[MCLARKE]

I enjoy horse racing but if I was losing money now I would probably give up unless I had a definite edge (e.g. the BET365 Grand National offer).

I lost money in the early days but always believed I would find the system that would make me money. I think this is what drove me on even if I was losing money.

I now scrape a profit but it has taken a lot of hard (although enjoyable) work. To make a profit and it is all about finding value, I suspect that lucky 15s etc vary rarely offer value.

 

 

 

[harry_rag]

There's an irrefutable case to be made for doubles and up in an ideal world for the simple reason that, if you've got an edge, then you multiply that edge by betting other than singles.

Take 3 bets where you're getting 11/10 about even money shots; the double at 4.41 has a bigger edge than the singles and the treble at 9.26 has a bigger edge still. There's an argument to be had for not sticking to singles in that case but it's academic if the three prices aren't available at the same time and with the same bookies. Sometimes betting singles is the only option to take advantage of the value bets as they occur. There's also a different argument to be made for doubling up or trebling 11/10 shots as opposed to selections at 25/1 or bigger as when you're backing in the realms of 1000/1 shots luck plays a big part in your short term returns and you need a huge sample of bets (possibly bank-exhausting) to be sure of getting your fair return.

I suspect that most punters who get a positive return from backing singles could have got a better return with the judicious use of the occasional multiple but could equally have lessened their profit by getting it wrong. So no harm in sticking to a "singles only" approach where it works, it's a valid enough form of specialisation. But be open minded to the possible value of the multi where the stars align for a decent opportunity even if you aren't persuaded by the "bit of extra fun" angle.

[harry_rag]

4 minutes ago, harry_rag said:

But be open minded to the possible value of the multi where the stars align for a decent opportunity even if you aren't persuaded by the "bit of extra fun" angle.

Here's a real world (albeit "once or twice in a betting lifetime") example, I'd be curious to know how people would have approached this in terms of staking, especially those who favour singles only.

World Cup starts, 3 games per day, and a particular prop bet is being priced by one firm at 7/1 or more in every game when it should be more like half those odds. It's a no-brainer to bet it for every game for as long as the generosity lasts. I think I went for something like 20 point singles and a 5 point trixie every day. No doubt not the optimum approach in as much as that can be calculated before the outcome is known, but I'd argue that it would have been a mistake to stick to just singles in those precise circumstances.

[Zilzalian]

23 minutes ago, harry_rag said:

There's an irrefutable case to be made for doubles and up in an ideal world for the simple reason that, if you've got an edge, then you multiply that edge by betting other than singles.

Take 3 bets where you're getting 11/10 about even money shots; the double at 4.41 has a bigger edge than the singles and the treble at 9.26 has a bigger edge still. There's an argument to be had for not sticking to singles in that case but it's academic if the three prices aren't available at the same time and with the same bookies. Sometimes betting singles is the only option to take advantage of the value bets as they occur. There's also a different argument to be made for doubling up or trebling 11/10 shots as opposed to selections at 25/1 or bigger as when you're backing in the realms of 1000/1 shots luck plays a big part in your short term returns and you need a huge sample of bets (possibly bank-exhausting) to be sure of getting your fair return.

I suspect that most punters who get a positive return from backing singles could have got a better return with the judicious use of the occasional multiple but could equally have lessened their profit by getting it wrong. So no harm in sticking to a "singles only" approach where it works, it's a valid enough form of specialisation. But be open minded to the possible value of the multi where the stars align for a decent opportunity even if you aren't persuaded by the "bit of extra fun" angle.

Seems to me that the many negative comments re the multi bet are based around like i said the "Profesional way" I have conceded in various places that the bookies fear the win single more than any other bet but lets be entirely honest here, they are not concerned with the tenner or fiver bet but the big £100/£1000+ bets, their knees only really start to tremble when the likes of JP McMannus turns up with a suitcase. it seems that a bit of snobbery is stopping a few from recognising the "enjoyment angle" (which fair play you didn't) is the whole point of my various comments and the article itself where i was conceding but emphasising- Yes you wont make money unless you are very lucky but for small stakes on a few TV bets "for newbies" the Lucky 15 is both inexpensive and a fun bet with a chance of a return now and again. Again i will emphasise the blanket statement that win singles is the only way to go without adding that you must do your homework and put a lot of time and effort into your selection process to even get anywhere near making a profit is misleading.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Zilzalian