NAPS COMPETITION - Rules Amendment

[MCLARKE]

3 hours ago, LeMale said:

Now it seems to have sprung into life again.  Looks like decision has already been made though, so i guess if you didn't want a rule change...to late. 

No, decision hasn't already been made but so far nobody has put forward a valid reason why I shouldn't make the amendments.

[MCLARKE]

1 hour ago, calva decoy said:

Likewise , I post on the French & US threads but wouldn't actually now nap any of my fancies because being the biggest Luddite in the World I have no idea how to send / post a screenshot so therefore the new rules discriminate against some but it's a fun , free game so win lose or draw I'm not that fussed though bookie choices see Betfair & Paddy Power , they're the same & same odds , maybe add another different bookie whence the new rules kick it may be a good idea / alternative .

I'm a bit of a luddite myself but I can't really think of a better way of veryfying international races. If there is a better way then I would be more than happy to use it. 

With regard to bookies there is an argument that these should be reduced to only those who offer BOG the night before. I know that BET365 do but I'm not sure which other bookies do.

[calva decoy]

12 minutes ago, MCLARKE said:

I'm a bit of a luddite myself but I can't really think of a better way of veryfying international races. If there is a better way then I would be more than happy to use it. 

With regard to bookies there is an argument that these should be reduced to only those who offer BOG the night before. I know that BET365 do but I'm not sure which other bookies do.

Boyle Sports used to , but tbh there's not much difference in all of their books , I was thinking more in the lines of Ladbrokes / Coral now they're both back on Oddschecker there's only some value with extra places for us each way punters albeit whatever is fine for me it's just a fun & free yet competitive site .

Not sure about others but unless it's Graded Racing in US & at the weekends UK bookies don't price up until the same day nowadays , bet365 used to do the day before but the disparity was sometimes massive & may probably have been singed a bit by savvy types .

Edited August 24, 2022 by calva decoy

[LeMale]

37 minutes ago, MCLARKE said:

No, decision hasn't already been made but so far nobody has put forward a valid reason why I shouldn't make the amendments.

Sorry, mis-understood some of your quotes (1-14 rule change and insider knowledge) But more importantly, have i been waiting until 10:00hrs to put my bets on with Bet365 for NO REASON, what a plonker. When did they change it back? 

[MCLARKE]

4 minutes ago, LeMale said:

Sorry, mis-understood some of your quotes (1-14 rule change and insider knowledge) But more importantly, have i been waiting until 10:00hrs to put my bets on with Bet365 for NO REASON, what a plonker. When did they change it back? 

I thought they always offered it the night before. I could be wrong though.

[MCLARKE]

29 minutes ago, calva decoy said:

Boyle Sports used to , but tbh there's not much difference in all of their books , I was thinking more in the lines of Ladbrokes / Coral now they're both back on Oddschecker there's only some value with extra places for us each way punters albeit whatever is fine for me it's just a fun & free yet competitive site .

We are attempting to keep it as realistic as possible. There is an argument now to change the allowed bookies to BET365 / Ladbrokes / Coral.

[calva decoy]

40 minutes ago, MCLARKE said:

We are attempting to keep it as realistic as possible. There is an argument now to change the allowed bookies to BET365 / Ladbrokes / Coral.

Like Paddy Power & Betfair are the same so are Coral & Ladbrokes .

Maybe worth in the next week seeing what bookies price & post odds for the following days racing earliest , think bet365 & William Hill will take the spoils .

[harry_rag]

33 minutes ago, MCLARKE said:

We are attempting to keep it as realistic as possible. There is an argument now to change the allowed bookies to BET365 / Ladbrokes / Coral.

The most realistic thing would be to do away with BOG for comp purposes given all the questions around who offers it and from what time. That's before you factor in that most of us have probably had it withdrawn by one or more firms. You could still allow early prices to be taken but dispense with BOG. That would allow a better spread of firms to be used (e.g. any firm judged to be credible enough who feature on Oddschecker).

As far as I can tell BOG is mostly only offered "on the day" or "on the day from x:00 onwards". The current rules allow BOG on selections that are taken the night before or early morning pre "threshold". That means we may be able to take an early price with BOG that we would never have been able to do in the real world.

Any tipping service that included BOG in the results it claimed would be treated with a degree of suspicion. Would it be negative for the competition to dispense with BOG?

[Xcout]

On 8/23/2022 at 5:02 PM, Quartu SE said:

LOL,did he say that before,during or after Watergate? Made me smile btw!!

Neither, actually the quote was said by Ronald Regan referring to a Russian Proverb.

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Xcout

[MCLARKE]

1 hour ago, harry_rag said:

The most realistic thing would be to do away with BOG for comp purposes given all the questions around who offers it and from what time. That's before you factor in that most of us have probably had it withdrawn by one or more firms. You could still allow early prices to be taken but dispense with BOG. That would allow a better spread of firms to be used (e.g. any firm judged to be credible enough who feature on Oddschecker).

As far as I can tell BOG is mostly only offered "on the day" or "on the day from x:00 onwards". The current rules allow BOG on selections that are taken the night before or early morning pre "threshold". That means we may be able to take an early price with BOG that we would never have been able to do in the real world.

Any tipping service that included BOG in the results it claimed would be treated with a degree of suspicion. Would it be negative for the competition to dispense with BOG?

It's an interesting debate.

There are 2 extremes.

One extreme is the novice punter who has no restrictions and therefore will be able to take early prices with BOG.

The other extreme is the skilled punter who can't get a bet on at all even at SP. This punter will be forced to use the exchanges.

I suspect that most of us are somewhere in between. For instance I can bet with BET365 and BET VICTOR with no restictions at all but I am restricted with all the other commonly recognised bookmakers.

My profit margin is about 5%, without BOG this would be more or less wiped out.

I think the current rules are fine, we are partly attempting to attract new people to the forum and these will be able to access the prices and offers. It would make sense to only include those bookmakers who offer BOG the night before.

[Zilzalian]

4 hours ago, MCLARKE said:

I thought they always offered it the night before. I could be wrong though.

I can assure you that i have put most of my bets on the night before on bet365 often before 10pm i often start looking about 7pm and i check prices on bet365.

[Zilzalian]

FFS roll on 1st of september before every rule gets changed and a dozen more added on. Unbeleivable Jeff (i before e eejit). If i was @MCLARKE i would be hanging from a tree now with my suicide note saying some Twat who ridiculously calls himself zilzalian asked for a consideration coz he got pissed off one day and now he is being surrounded by the keyboard warrior brigade, Well you get what you ask for in this life Zil its self inflicted so serves you right ya daft prick. The only saviour to this situation would be to call for Edward Woodward The Equaliser to come sort it out but alas he wanted a vote first. ????

[MCLARKE]

I'm mildly entertained by it all. It's also allowed me to look at some of the other rules as well.

[MCLARKE]

Out of interest @Zilzalian, where did the name come from ?

I thought it might be some reference to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (Zaphod / Trillian) ?

[harry_rag]

Let’s make it hyper realistic, if someone has a couple of winners we take BOG off them and if they persist in doing well we half their stakes. 

Out of interest, is BOG often a factor, i.e. the SP is bigger than the early price taken? I assume most winners will go off shorter than the price taken by the resident shrewdies.

[MCLARKE]

19 minutes ago, harry_rag said:

Out of interest, is BOG often a factor, i.e. the SP is bigger than the early price taken? I assume most winners will go off shorter than the price taken by the resident shrewdies.

Today's big priced winner SP 40/1, early price 25/1

Yesterday's SP 33/1, early price 22/1

Sunday's SP 50/1, early price 18/1

I think you'd be surprised how significant it is.

[Xcout]

1 hour ago, MCLARKE said:

I'm mildly entertained by it all. It's also allowed me to look at some of the other rules as well.

I am also entertained by this, so much I forgot to NAP... hahahaha ?

Being serious, I commend Mclarke  for being open to objections, yet it became what was needed, the reasoning for the   amendments and also an open exchange of ideas. Such discourse with open minded people is the basis of advancements.

[Xcout]

12 minutes ago, MCLARKE said:

Today's big priced winner SP 40/1, early price 25/1

Yesterday's SP 33/1, early price 22/1

Sunday's SP 50/1, early price 18/1

I think you'd be surprised how significant it is.

Mmmm, than better just to choose SP ?  Interesting...most of the time the odds shorten..

Edited August 25, 2022 by Xcout

[MCLARKE]

I suppose with a proper book, if one price shortens then another must lengthen

[Zilzalian]

1 hour ago, MCLARKE said:

Today's big priced winner SP 40/1, early price 25/1

Yesterday's SP 33/1, early price 22/1

Sunday's SP 50/1, early price 18/1

I think you'd be surprised how significant it is.

Its the difference between me making a profit and losing, it is that simple. Also consider the itv free bet offer on tv races bog often gets you a bonus with a winner when choosing round about 4, 5 or 6/1 these prices often contract to less than 4/1 so if u take the say 4/1 and it goes below you still qualify for the bonus, without bog u dont. Bear in mind that is available up to £50 per bet, so can be very powerful to your bank.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Zilzalian

[Zilzalian]

2 hours ago, MCLARKE said:

Out of interest @Zilzalian, where did the name come from ?

I thought it might be some reference to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (Zaphod / Trillian) ?

Extension of Zilzal (my fav racehorse) Zilzal is arabic for earthquake ? i also have art, writing and photography site pages called zilzalisme and Zilzalisme was my username when i used to play international scrabble. As you can see i like zilzalians ??

[MCLARKE]

4 hours ago, Zilzalian said:

Its the difference between me making a profit and losing, it is that simple. Also consider the itv free bet offer on tv races bog often gets you a bonus with a winner when choosing round about 4, 5 or 6/1 these prices often contract to less than 4/1 so if u take the say 4/1 and it goes below you still qualify for the bonus, without bog u dont. Bear in mind that is available up to £50 per bet, so can be very powerful to your bank.

Yes, when margins are tight BOG makes a huge difference.

The BET365 offer is excellent albeit my selections over the last year have been far from successful. Having said that these conditional offers are not available as part of the naps condition, they would be extremely diificult to monitor and verify.

 

[calva decoy]

9 hours ago, Zilzalian said:

I can assure you that i have put most of my bets on the night before on bet365 often before 10pm i often start looking about 7pm and i check prices on bet365.

Bet365 usually price & post between 4 & 5 & herein can sometimes lie the value & or they can be well short compared to the next bookies putting up their prices .

[roger2256]

17 hours ago, The Equaliser said:

All I was asking was for a vote by members on rule changes.  Not idiotic IMO

This isn't a club ,  you don't pay to be a member and you have no say on how it's run. MC offered opinions as a courtesy.  It's his  and ONLY his decision .The day YOU get a say in how things are  run is the day my 'punterslounge ' mug gets smashed against the wall ( actually I must try harder to get more pens , only got one left I think   hmmm) 

You seem to think this is a social site , we are not ' mates' friends or colleagues,  doubt if anyone cares if you don't have time to make selections because your out shopping,  cooking lamb,beef chicken or fillet steak , helping your daughter move ( probably as far away from your spouting as possible) or writing to the council,  save all that for Facebook or any other nonsense media site.

BH ( God rest his soul) had you figured out pretty quick , ask for help, let others do the work for you then disregard anyway . 

The way you answer people is often rude, condescending and arrogant,  you are beyond contempt and will be treated as such in future so beware 

 

 

 

[The Equaliser]

27 minutes ago, roger2256 said:

This isn't a club ,  you don't pay to be a member and you have no say on how it's run. MC offered opinions as a courtesy.  It's his  and ONLY his decision .The day YOU get a say in how things are  run is the day my 'punterslounge ' mug gets smashed against the wall ( actually I must try harder to get more pens , only got one left I think   hmmm) 

You seem to think this is a social site , we are not ' mates' friends or colleagues,  doubt if anyone cares if you don't have time to make selections because your out shopping,  cooking lamb,beef chicken or fillet steak , helping your daughter move ( probably as far away from your spouting as possible) or writing to the council,  save all that for Facebook or any other nonsense media site.

BH ( God rest his soul) had you figured out pretty quick , ask for help, let others do the work for you then disregard anyway . 

The way you answer people is often rude, condescending and arrogant,  you are beyond contempt and will be treated as such in future so beware 

 

 

 

You are trying to use what I consider to be a reasonable request as an excuse to let out a couple of years of pent-up animosity towards me. 

I got along very well with Graham I'll have you know.

You are so off beat when you declare that I am trying to get others to do work for me. All I'm trying to do is to get members to share knowledge that may be helpful to others.

What is the point of anyone posting up any information on PL if they do not hope or expect other members to use it?

Sure, if one is selfish and only wants to win one of the various comps then OK just post up and use all available strategies to win them, and to hell with anyone else.

I am not selfish and like to help others in their endeavor to have fun with their betting, not lose their shirt and hopefully make some money on occasions.

It is my experience that other people are much more rude and insulting towards me than I am ever towards them.

Get a grip on reality.

[Zilzalian]

2 minutes ago, The Equaliser said:

You are trying to use what I consider to be a reasonable request as an excuse to let out a couple of years of pent-up animosity towards me. 

I got along very well with Graham I'll have you know.

You are so off beat when you declare that I am trying to get others to do work for me. All I'm trying to do is to get members to share knowledge that may be helpful to others.

What is the point of anyone posting up any information on PL if they do not hope or expect other members to use it?

Sure, if one is selfish and only wants to win one of the various comps then OK just post up and use all available strategies to win them, and to hell with anyone else.

I am not selfish and like to help others in their endeavor to have fun with their betting, not lose their shirt and hopefully make some money on occasions.

It is my experience that other people are much more rude and insulting towards me than I am ever towards them.

Get a grip on reality.

Think you just proved his @roger2256 point. Your problem is you never let things go, you never or are incapable of admitting you may be wrong, it was blatantly obvious there was no support for your suggestion of a vote and people even pointed out why, as for losing shirts can you admit at least that if members followed your "contributions/strategies" they would indeed lose their shirt? With respect might i suggest it is you that needs to take a step back and "get a grip".  your point "Sure, if one is selfish and only wants to win one of the various comps then OK just post up and use all available strategies to win them, and to hell with anyone else." pretty much sums it up, you wanted a rule change to enable a losing bet be treated as a winner, you admitted to using a rule loophole to change your bet because of a rule4. and to hell with anyone else. Even your response to Roger smacks of a person that will never back down or accept any critisism even in the face of overwhelming evidence or disagreement. okay you contribute to the site which is always a good thing but you need to stop treating it as your own personal domain.

[The Equaliser]

20 minutes ago, Zilzalian said:

Think you just proved his @roger2256 point. Your problem is you never let things go, you never or are incapable of admitting you may be wrong, it was blatantly obvious there was no support for your suggestion of a vote and people even pointed out why, as for losing shirts can you admit at least that if members followed your "contributions/strategies" they would indeed lose their shirt? With respect might i suggest it is you that needs to take a step back and "get a grip".  your point "Sure, if one is selfish and only wants to win one of the various comps then OK just post up and use all available strategies to win them, and to hell with anyone else." pretty much sums it up, you wanted a rule change to enable a losing bet be treated as a winner, you admitted to using a rule loophole to change your bet because of a rule4. and to hell with anyone else. Even your response to Roger smacks of a person that will never back down or accept any critisism even in the face of overwhelming evidence or disagreement. okay you contribute to the site which is always a good thing but you need to stop treating it as your own personal domain.

You are just twisting my words when I was explaining my motives for posting up on Punters Lounge.

I will always reply when I am unjustifiably attacked here or anywhere else.  Is that not reasonable?

I do not treat Punters Lounge as if it is my domain.  I engage in "racing chat" is that not reasonable?

 

[Zilzalian]

1 minute ago, The Equaliser said:

You are just twisting my words when I was explaining my motives for posting up on Punters Lounge.

I will always reply when I am unjustifiably attacked here or anywhere else.  Is that not reasonable?

I do not treat Punters Lounge as if it is my domain.  I engage in "racing chat" is that not reasonable?

 

i rest my case

[roger2256]

11 minutes ago, The Equaliser said:

You are trying to use what I consider to be a reasonable request as an excuse to let out a couple of years of pent-up animosity towards me. 

I got along very well with Graham I'll have you know.

You are so off beat when you declare that I am trying to get others to do work for me. All I'm trying to do is to get members to share knowledge that may be helpful to others.

What is the point of anyone posting up any information on PL if they do not hope or expect other members to use it?

Sure, if one is selfish and only wants to win one of the various comps then OK just post up and use all available strategies to win them, and to hell with anyone else.

I am not selfish and like to help others in their endeavor to have fun with their betting, not lose their shirt and hopefully make some money on occasions.

It is my experience that other people are much more rude and insulting towards me than I am ever towards them.

Get a grip on reality.

Animosity,  hatred , loathing, disgust, antipathy,  all good words .

You have in the past constantly slated Alistair for his methods of winning the Naps table , sour grapes on your part because you tried and failed. 

You tried to pull a fast one on laying and VT beat you down until you had to admit you were wrong.

You argued endlessly a losing BET was a winner by the rules of racing lol 

Many other instances but most interesting at the moment is ; quote. "You are so off beat when you declare that I am trying to get others to do work for me " have you not been using other people's selections to attempt to wipe out your own  considerable losses , I'm sure zill and maybe a few others would be mortified if they thought they had put a penny piece in your pocket .

It's you that needs to get a grip on reality,  your betting is nonsense but you can't see it , you have been told many times by seasoned punters it's nonsense but you still won't have it , you know better ,  boarderline problem gambler who justifies his actions by declaring  "its only small stakes " " its just for fun " 

One thing , why do you not get bog on betfair ?  Have  you opted for the basic option to just pay 2% commission.  Please don't say that's the reason ? 

[The Equaliser]

4 minutes ago, roger2256 said:

Animosity,  hatred , loathing, disgust, antipathy,  all good words .

You have in the past constantly slated Alistair for his methods of winning the Naps table , sour grapes on your part because you tried and failed. 

You tried to pull a fast one on laying and VT beat you down until you had to admit you were wrong.

You argued endlessly a losing BET was a winner by the rules of racing lol 

Many other instances but most interesting at the moment is ; quote. "You are so off beat when you declare that I am trying to get others to do work for me " have you not been using other people's selections to attempt to wipe out your own  considerable losses , I'm sure zill and maybe a few others would be mortified if they thought they had put a penny piece in your pocket .

It's you that needs to get a grip on reality,  your betting is nonsense but you can't see it , you have been told many times by seasoned punters it's nonsense but you still won't have it , you know better ,  boarderline problem gambler who justifies his actions by declaring  "its only small stakes " " its just for fun " 

One thing , why do you not get bog on betfair ?  Have  you opted for the basic option to just pay 2% commission.  Please don't say that's the reason ? 

Again you have it wrong.  I do NOT use other people's tips to try and wipe out my losses.  I highlight them so other members may consider them for themselves.  I do sometimes back them if I feel that they have a good chance of winning.  This is common sense.

I don't have considerable losses.  My YTD loss is currently £265.59, which is about £33 per month for many hours entertainment; far less than my monthly sub to Sky TV. 

I have said many times anyone's tip, whatever it is, only merit is that it may attract someone's attention who can investigate it further and them perhaps back it if it fits within their own criteria for having a bet.  I purposely publish my P&L figures and have NEVER asked or expected ANYONE to back any selections.

Yes. I do just pay 2% commission on Betfair if that gives you some sort of satisfaction