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Win Backing System


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07/14/2022 13:40 LEICESTER Kind Spirit
07/14/2022 14:10 LEICESTER Clipsham Gold
07/14/2022 14:20 HAMILTON Ustath
07/14/2022 14:30 CHEPSTOW Glamorous Breeze
07/14/2022 15:00 CHEPSTOW Connie's Rose
07/14/2022 16:00 CHEPSTOW Beryl Burton
07/14/2022 16:20 HAMILTON Crypto Quest
07/14/2022 16:50 HAMILTON Stroxx
07/14/2022 18:40 EPSOM Courageous Knight
07/14/2022 19:40 EPSOM Starshiba
07/14/2022 19:55 WORCESTER Mr Woody
07/14/2022 20:10 EPSOM Ideal Guest

 

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Would be interested in sharing all of the results to date with someone willing to look at staking variations to max profits the results to date. Feel free to contact me directly. Nothing overly aggressive, just looking to compound profits in a simple system that maybe has some variation of a stoploss in the same.

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Todays selections

07/20/2022 15:05 CATTERICK Liangel Hope
07/20/2022 18:08 SANDOWN Pledge Of Honour
07/20/2022 18:25 LEICESTER Doomsday
07/20/2022 18:38 SANDOWN Mrs U S A
07/20/2022 18:55 LEICESTER Taaqat
07/20/2022 19:08 SANDOWN Autumn Festival
07/20/2022 19:25 LEICESTER Carrigillihy
07/20/2022 20:25 LEICESTER Misscall
07/20/2022 20:40 SANDOWN Happy

 

 

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2 hours ago, The Accountant said:

Would be interested in sharing all of the results to date with someone willing to look at staking variations to max profits the results to date. Feel free to contact me directly. Nothing overly aggressive, just looking to compound profits in a simple system that maybe has some variation of a stoploss in the same.

I've been betting for over 40 years and have never seen a staking plan that beats levels stakes.

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36 minutes ago, MCLARKE said:

I've been betting for over 40 years and have never seen a staking plan that beats levels stakes.

That's interesting @MCLARKE I don't have as many years experience as you, but surely there are merits to kelly staking if you have some idea of the value of each bet.

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23 minutes ago, Torque said:

That's interesting @MCLARKE I don't have as many years experience as you, but surely there are merits to kelly staking if you have some idea of the value of each bet.

There in lies the problem, it is very difficult to know the value of each bet, there is too much randomness.

I have tried Kelly staking, making some very nice profits before being wiped out when the inevitable losing run comes along.

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I've been involved in gambling, on and off course, for even longer than McLarke and I would wholeheartedly agree with him.  The problem that the originator is facing is not his profit - he is already making a level stake profit of +16 points, which is good - it is his expectations. His strike rate is ok, but could be better and he needs to focus on the number of losers that he backs. and the stakes that they carry. If he can do that, and I can, then he will see that level stakes or considered stakes is the only way to go. Money management is crucial and you only get grey hairs and problems with most, probably all, forms of staking plans especially those that depend on any form of retrieval. Of course, it goes without saying, that a solid and realistic bank roll is required and your betting pattern should never put the bank under severe pressure. 

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I wouldn’t favour level stakes for my own betting simply because of the wide range of odds involved but I do tend to stake to achieve broadly the same profit from all bets (subject to what I can actually get on).  It might be worth a simple comparison between level stakes, level returns and level profits.

If anyone did a detailed analysis and came up with the “perfect” staking plan it might fall foul of what I believe is called back fitting, e.g. would have worked for what has happened so far but might not for what happens next.

I agree with the notion (for most systems) that there might be more gain from time spent trimming off a few losing bets rather than over-finessing the approach to staking.

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2 hours ago, harry_rag said:

I wouldn’t favour level stakes for my own betting simply because of the wide range of odds involved but I do tend to stake to achieve broadly the same profit from all bets (subject to what I can actually get on).  It might be worth a simple comparison between level stakes, level returns and level profits.

If anyone did a detailed analysis and came up with the “perfect” staking plan it might fall foul of what I believe is called back fitting, e.g. would have worked for what has happened so far but might not for what happens next.

I agree with the notion (for most systems) that there might be more gain from time spent trimming off a few losing bets rather than over-finessing the approach to staking.

Staking is an interesting topic of discussion that's for sure. From my perspective, I can't get on with level staking because by definition it suggests all bets are equal, when it's probably reasonable to suggest one even money bet is a better proposition than another and also for the reason @harry_rag suggests which is the counterintuitive nature of staking the same amount on an even money shot as something that's ten to one - clearly the ten to one shot is far less likely to land and so you're more likely to lose your stake, whilst the same stake at shorter odds is more likely to win but also return a smaller amount.

I can't get on with level returns either, because although they mitigate against the higher probability of losing your stake the higher the odds go, again they treat all bets as equal in their utility. Kelly staking on the other hand, although difficult to implement, makes the most intuitive sense. It balances the perceived value of a bet against its risk which allows for higher stakes at higher odds and also smaller stakes at smaller odds, as well as the much more accepted practice of higher stakes at smaller odds and smaller stakes at higher odds.

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2 hours ago, harry_rag said:

I wouldn’t favour level stakes for my own betting simply because of the wide range of odds involved but I do tend to stake to achieve broadly the same profit from all bets (subject to what I can actually get on).  It might be worth a simple comparison between level stakes, level returns and level profits.

I may 

 

8 minutes ago, Torque said:

Staking is an interesting topic of discussion that's for sure. From my perspective, I can't get on with level staking because by definition it suggests all bets are equal, when it's probably reasonable to suggest one even money bet is a better proposition than another and also for the reason @harry_rag suggests which is the counterintuitive nature of staking the same amount on an even money shot as something that's ten to one - clearly the ten to one shot is far less likely to land and so you're more likely to lose your stake, whilst the same stake at shorter odds is more likely to win but also return a smaller amount.

I can't get on with level returns either, because although they mitigate against the higher probability of losing your stake the higher the odds go, again they treat all bets as equal in their utility. Kelly staking on the other hand, although difficult to implement, makes the most intuitive sense. It balances the perceived value of a bet against its risk which allows for higher stakes at higher odds and also smaller stakes at smaller odds, as well as the much more accepted practice of higher stakes at smaller odds and smaller stakes at higher odds.

I was probably a bit misleading with my claim about level stakes, I do in fact mean proportional stakes or level returns. This is not a staking plan as such.

I agree with the comment that some bets are better "value" than others, the problem is I've always found it difficult to determine this other than retrospectively.

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Often in my area of betting I see a bet which looks like a candidate for maximum stakes only to find that the bookie’s idea of maximum stake is 25p. I know that’s another issue but it’s frustrating when they just price up lazily safe in the knowledge they will restrict any vaguely sharp action rather than put a bit more effort into the pricing and take a half decent bet.

That added degree of uncertainty means I can’t really be too rigid about my approach to staking.

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Small win yesterday - will get to read the above thread later - thanks to all for posting.

Bank is €996; stake is €29.87

Here's todays selections;

07/21/2022 14:10 WORCESTER Kolisi
07/21/2022 14:25 SANDOWN Tagline
07/21/2022 14:35 YARMOUTH Ana Hadi
07/21/2022 15:10 YARMOUTH Badr
07/21/2022 15:20 WORCESTER Little Jessture
07/21/2022 15:20 WORCESTER Little Jessture
07/21/2022 16:20 YARMOUTH Papa Cocktail
07/21/2022 16:52 YARMOUTH Wrath Of Hector
07/21/2022 19:38 NEWBURY Puffable
07/21/2022 19:55 DONCASTER Charles St
07/21/2022 20:08 NEWBURY Port Noir
07/21/2022 20:55 DONCASTER Willem Twee

 

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17 hours ago, harry_rag said:

Often in my area of betting I see a bet which looks like a candidate for maximum stakes only to find that the bookie’s idea of maximum stake is 25p. I know that’s another issue but it’s frustrating when they just price up lazily safe in the knowledge they will restrict any vaguely sharp action rather than put a bit more effort into the pricing and take a half decent bet.

That added degree of uncertainty means I can’t really be too rigid about my approach to staking.

Apart from some special offers I very rarely bet with the bookies these days, like @The Accountantnearly all my betting is on the exchanges.

Do people who bet with the bookmakes compare their returns with BSP ?

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If you're sharp enough the value can be had with the bookmakers.  The trouble then is with keeping your Accounts. These guys are constantly looking for anyone who may be a shrewd backer and if you take the value you'll soon be banned. Their sophisticated software flags up winners and even losers who constantly take value. Look at the profits made by the leading bookmakers - that tells its own story. They only want and encourage losers. Unfortunately they have made it impossible for clever backers to hold on to regular accounts so, it's obvious, the exchanges, who only want your commission, is the way we are all being forced to go.   

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Bank is €716 after Friday.

07/25/2022 14:25 NEWTON ABBOT Bucko's Boy
07/25/2022 15:00 NEWTON ABBOT Jony Max
07/25/2022 15:55 AYR Yaaser
07/25/2022 18:00 WINDSOR Al Dasim
07/25/2022 18:50 FFOS LAS Red Walls
07/25/2022 19:35 WINDSOR Bad Company
07/25/2022 20:30 FFOS LAS Hurricane Helen

 

Stake is €21.49

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On 7/20/2022 at 3:40 PM, Yalwen said:

The problem that the originator is facing is not his profit - he is already making a level stake profit of +16 points, which is good - it is his expectations. His strike rate is ok, but could be better and he needs to focus on the number of losers that he backs

I need to focus on the number of losers I back ..... so the key for making more profit is backing less losers ..... thanks for telling me that Yalwen. So by that rationale you think I am looking to back horses daily with real money that I think have no realistic value/probability of winning - so I just need to focus on the horses I think can win/have value to win, as opposed to doing what I'm doing in your view.

You might put a link up to your "only winners" thread please and I'll start to follow it.

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@ Yalwen ?

Here's todays picks; Bank is €716, stake is €21.49

07/26/2022 13:40 YARMOUTH Spanish Mane
07/26/2022 17:26 BEVERLEY Sir Maxi
07/26/2022 17:30 WORCESTER Ben Buie
07/26/2022 17:30 WORCESTER Chess Player
07/26/2022 18:00 WORCESTER Leapaway
07/26/2022 18:50 PERTH Ballyquin Bay
07/26/2022 20:00 PERTH Keepthefaithinme
07/26/2022 20:10 WORCESTER Annual Review
07/26/2022 20:30 PERTH Raddle And Hum
07/26/2022 21:00 PERTH Leopolds Rock

 

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Hi All,

Bank is €652

07/28/2022 14:05 NOTTINGHAM Willard Creek
07/28/2022 14:32 STRATFORD Dicktate
07/28/2022 17:55 EPSOM Silastar
07/28/2022 18:15 SALISBURY Point Louise
07/28/2022 18:45 SALISBURY Batal Dubai
07/28/2022 19:00 EPSOM Greased Lightning
07/28/2022 19:15 SALISBURY Mehme
07/28/2022 19:30 EPSOM Queen Of Burgundy
07/28/2022 20:00 EPSOM Maysong

 

Stake is €19.57

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Nice day yesterday; bank moves back to €723.

07/29/2022 18:10 MUSSELBURGH Graces Quest
07/29/2022 18:20 NEWMARKET (JULY) Just A Tad
07/29/2022 18:45 MUSSELBURGH Howyadoin
07/29/2022 19:20 MUSSELBURGH Let's Go Hugo
07/29/2022 20:00 NEWMARKET (JULY) Nizaaka
07/29/2022 20:20 MUSSELBURGH Call Me Ginger

 

Stake is €21.69.

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Here's Saturdays picks also;

07/30/2022 13:55 NEWMARKET (JULY) Fox Degree
07/30/2022 14:06 THIRSK Harry Brown
07/30/2022 14:06 THIRSK Overnight Oats
07/30/2022 14:25 NEWMARKET (JULY) Rose Of Kildare
07/30/2022 15:35 NEWMARKET (JULY) Cuban Breeze
07/30/2022 16:20 THIRSK Flyawaydream
07/30/2022 17:30 THIRSK On The River
07/30/2022 17:45 HAMILTON Jm Jungle
07/30/2022 18:20 HAMILTON Only Spoofing
07/30/2022 20:00 HAMILTON Under Fox
07/30/2022 20:30 HAMILTON Cosa Sara
07/30/2022 21:00 HAMILTON Temper Trap

 

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Some near near misses over Friday & Saturday. incl one on Saturday at 10.18.

Bank is €560.

08/01/2022 14:18 AYR Water Of Leith
08/01/2022 14:55 RIPON Storm Chaser
08/01/2022 15:25 RIPON Hyperfocus
08/01/2022 15:48 AYR Retirement Beckons
08/01/2022 16:55 CARLISLE Clotherholme
08/01/2022 17:30 CARLISLE Reclaim Victory
08/01/2022 20:45 CARLISLE Iris Dancer

 

Stake is €16.80

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This Cycle comes to a close with a loss of €521.

Net position to date after 5 cycles is +€382 (starting with an opening stake each cycle of €30)

Just FYI

Fixed level stake backs of €100, net of 2% commission is -€379

Fixed level Win staking to win €98 (€100 - 2% commission) per selection is +€884

All using Betfair SP

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