Perfect Storm Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Torque said: It was definitely worth a bet at the price. Let's just hope they don't do a Bury - I'm assuming if they do then a relegation bet is a busted flush, and as much as any bets should be voided it wouldn't surprise me to discover in the small-print that there's no obligation for a refund. If the Wunderers go bust / into Admin that's the standard 12 point deduction for going into Admin PLUS the 5 points carried over from the last time they went into Admin, so that's 17 points off whatever points they might have at the time. That's how Wigan and the Wunderers finished up being relegated, folks who bet on Wigan being relegated got paid, you are either relegated, or yer not... By the way, if Football Ventures {known locally as the Punch & Judy Show} slip on the ice laid down by running costs and inherited debt they'll have to find £380,000 to cover the remaining 50% of a fine laid on them by the EFL last season. Could it be any worse, imagine running out of money and then being "fined" £380,000 because you don't have any money, how PERVERSE is that !!! I'm AMAZED that Bald Fred et-al seemingly didn't do their homework on this. There's a LOT more to running a football club these days than kicking a ball up and down a pitch. Do you know ANY owners in any division that made money from it ? How many owners found out, it's not a hobby, it's a bloody minefield. It might be an affordable fetish for Oligarchs, Wealthy Arabs, Chinese Billionaires and the like who have run out of places to hide their money, but it's not a game for Millionaires any more, they can soon find themselves out of their depth. I've no doubt that with the SOLID fan base that Michael knew Bolton have, over 8000 season tickets sold this season, when anyone with half a brain would at least wonder if they'd even get into the ground this year, the less I say on that the better... So no matter what League the Wunderers play in, the faithful will always turn up to pay homage, take away Wu Flu and the Club looks like a cash cow, when the turnstiles are clicking that is. Under normal circumstances £10 Million for the Club seems like a bargain, even with inherited debt of around £5 Million. But it's the massive overheads of a massive stadium with around 200 people on the payroll, that's why the Club went into Admin last year, they simply couldn't pay the bills and the wages. It got so bad that supporters had to set up a food bank for the staff and the players. Things are WORSE this year, MUCH WORSE. I just can't see where the money is coming from to keep the Club afloat, if that weight isn't enough on yer back, try carrying the 125 room Hotel on your back as well. The doors are still open but the place is as good as empty, the ONLY people who can book a room are "folks travelling on work related business", how many of them them do you think would chose to stay in Bolton aka Wu Flu Central !!! How could things be worse, if YOU owned the Club, the Hotel and the DEBT how would you get out of it, there's no income worth speaking about, but massive overheads. What would you do, pour more money in, hoping to save what seems to be a sinking ship, or do you save yourself from going down with it, how long would you "man the pumps" pumping more of your money in. It's like the blokes who chase their losses only to sink further into the mire. The problem is, if you throw the towel in right now you've done in yer b*llocks in and the best part of £17.4 Million, maybe more if the inherited debt was secured against you and/or your personal assets ? Which is best, a "Stop Loss Limit" or "Go for Broke" men usually go for the latter, Captains go down with their ships. Women are different, if their ship springs a leak they bail themselves out, rather than the boat. If Sharon could turn the clock back, what do you think she'd do, mind you, with {what's left of} the £57 Million she likes folks to think she's worth it might not be bothering her at all, so I could be wrong. Watching this saga play out beats watching Netflix, it'll be interesting, and probably rewarding, I'll take my 50/1 chance... As you say, look at Bury, they weren't just relegated they dropped through the trap door into OBLIVION, that was a sad do. Bury were a community club, 95% of their supporters / season ticket holders lived within 5 miles of the ground. Back to the Wunderers though, when I look at the L2 positions I just add 17 points to every team other than Bolton, that puts even lowly Southend on 20 points, Bolton on 13. Scun.thorpe on 22 points, with 3 games in hand. Stevenage on 24 points. Mansfield on 27 points. Oldham on 28 points. Grimsby on 29 points Do I need look any further, I'm pretty sure that Scun.thorpe will get a few points out of the 3 games they have in hand, not sure about Stevenage, next Saturdays game when they are at home to the Wunderers could well be the deciding factor for Stevenage. To put a 17 point deduction into perspective, if you applied that to Premiership teams at the end of last Season, HALF OF THEM would have been relegated !!! I'll do my best to get Lionel in, playing as A. N. Other, you don't see that happening these days hey. The upcoming game is in the lap of the gods, I hope they are smiling on "The Boro", I'll throw a half crown in the tray if they do. PS: BetVictor are still offering 40/1 against the Wunderers being relegated, Hills are a bit more cagey, they have them at 20/1. https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/league-2/relegation Edited November 15, 2020 by Perfect Storm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) WHAT would sponsor Evatt to say this... "there is still doubt as to whether wage bills will be met at the end of this month in extreme cases. https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/18872826.bolton-wanderers-boss-ian-evatt-wants-quick-distribution-bail-out-funds/ WHO is Evatt talking about when he says... "That has left some clubs at the lower end of the EFL in major need of help." I wonder if clubs at the lower end of the EFL phone Evatt up to tell him how their finances are ? I'll take a look which teams in the lower end of the EFL might be carrying a lot debt... Edited November 16, 2020 by Perfect Storm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) Looks like Scun.thorpe are climbing out of the basement, they beat Port Vale 1-0 tonight, that gets their ankles out of the mire. It would be nice to see Stevenage to beat Bolton on Saturday that would really mix things at the bottom of League 2, it's definitely a relegation 6 pointer. Here's what Bald Fred and the parasites think of it... https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/league-2/stevenage-v-bolton/winner The Wunderers played tonight, at home to Newcastle's U21 team, Crellin was back in goal, and back in form as he faced a team who had only scored 2 goals in the last 450 minutes they'd played, it took them less the 45 minutes to put 2 goals past Crellin !!! The poor lad must have killed a Priest in another life, but, we all go through bad patches. Thankfully for the Wunderers {B Team} they got one back moments before HT to make it 2-1. Here's how the game went. https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/18878739.bolton-wanderers-3-2-newcastle-united-u21s---big-match-verdict/ There's not a lot that can be drawn from the game, it won't be the same team turning out against Stevenage on Saturday, hopefully 38 year old Gilks will miss the coach and we might just see more of Crellin's Clangers, wouldn't that be nice. Edited November 17, 2020 by Perfect Storm yossa6133 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) 5... 4... 3... 2-1 Looks like Bolton have "Lift Off" ? I can't take anything away from Bolton or Stevenage, both teams went toe to toe to win the game. It was a good game, with a couple of brilliant goals, both teams desperate for the points. Since Bolton ditched their goalkeeper they've played like a different team, a much better team, at least against teams at the bottom of the league. Have to say the Wunderers were lucky to go 1 up in the 14th minute, Sarcevic's shot was saved by Cummings {yea, now we know where he's gone,} Cummings played a blinder throughout the game, but on this occasion Eoin Doyle buried the rebound with an brilliant scissor kick, bad luck for Cummings, worse luck for Stevenage as Doyle was clearly offside. Bolton were dominating the game, but Stevenage made it end to end stuff with some exciting counter attacks, the game was a lot more exciting than many FA Cup Finals that I've seen. Bolton's pressure paid off in the 36th minute when Bolton broke to counter attack, Doyle got the ball ran half the length of the pitch, passed to Jones who made an inch perfect pass to Crawford who shot low and into the corner to beat Cummings, not a flashy or top shelf goal but they all count. You'd have expected Stevenage to drop their heads at this point, close to HT and 2-0 down, but they didn't, and they got one back in the 44th minute, that shook the Wunderers, they thought they had the game wrapped up. The second half was equally as entertaining, end to end stuff again, Bolton's 38 year old goalkeeper / coach played a blinder too, saving more than one shot, how he kept a shot from going on the top right corner gawd only knows how he tipped it over, that should have been a well deserved 2-2 for Stevenage, some would argue fairly 2-1 to Stevenage if Doyle's offside goal had been disallowed. I felt more sorry for Stevenage than for my relegation bet, but if they commit to every game they play for the rest of the season they'll avoid the drop. It's good for the game when little clubs in little towns can make their presence felt. You can't get much smaller than Stevenage, at the end of their games their kit goes to a local Launderette, it's clubs like that the FA / EFL should be helping before they help themselves. Anyway, that was how I saw the game, gutted to see the Wunderers take the 3, but we're just a 1/4 way through the season yet, lots of banana skins to slip on. I'm hoping that Scnuthorpe will turn the tide on Tuesday night, but right now Evatt & Co are flying high, let's hope for a hard landing. Edited November 23, 2020 by Perfect Storm Zico10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) It's a "do or die" game tonight between Scnuthorpe and the Wunderers, another relegation battle, I doubt I'll be trying to pick the winner, too many games like this end in a draw, but I'll be shouting for Scun.thorpe and I'll have the wife's Rosary beads warmed up prior to the kick off, 2-0 to the Iron Men by HT would be nice. Bald Fred et-al have the Wunderers as 5/4 favourites, that's not how I see it, MAYBE if they were playing at home. The Iron Men look to be priced way over the odds at 11/5, I'm tempted at that price, the 9/2 against Scun.thorpe doing the HT/FT thing looks over the odds too, the more I think about that the more likely I'll be taking 90 to 20. https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/league-2/scnuthorpe-v-bolton/winner I reckon the Iron Men will go for it from the first kick to put the Wunderers under pressure and to rock their {fragile} confidence, a goal in the first 10 to 15 would be nice, a lot depends on how Bolton's goalie plays tonight, he's good, no doubt about that, but he's 38 too, add to that, he's had a great return to the pitch from his coaching career, but, every tide turns, hopefully that happens around 19:03 tonight. Other than the above, I just heard it looks like Salford have snatched that Free Agent goalkeeper from under the noses of the Wunderers management, gawd knows why they didn't grab him when they could have done, so look out for an announcement on that from Salford soon... Edited November 24, 2020 by Perfect Storm Zico10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yossa6133 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Still licking my wounds from the Salford game so probably won't get involved, was even more frustrating when they blitzed Bradford 3-0 in the opening half of their next game! Need Bolton to start dropping points or we will need the point deduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) Hello Yossa, I hear you about licking wounds, the Wunderers have put taken 7 points from the last 9 they played for, better than most teams do. The drawn game at home to Mansfield was a fair result, the win against Salford was mind blowing, it certainly set them up to play with confidence against {poor old} Stevenage, but they'd a lot of luck going for them in that game, that goal that Doyle scored was clearly offside, even the Wunderers supporters admit that, if they have to talk about it. Add to that, gawd knows how Gilks saved that shot to the top right, I was sure it was in, Gilks is good, that shot would have beat 90% of goalkeepers in any League, had to feel sorry for Stevenage when the game was over, they don't get many points but they deserved at least 1 point if not 3 from the game "They Wuz Robbed", but tides turn, I hope that Stevenage avoid the drop, for more reasons than one. As for the bet, well, I put the money on before the season kicked off, there's not many teams in any league that would survive a 17 points deduction, IF we applied that right now here's how relegation battle would look... Bradford 13 Barrow 13 Grimsby 12 Mansfield 11 Scnuthorpe 11 Stevenage 8 Southend 5 Bolton -1 Would you take 1/50 that they'd climb past Southend or Stevenage, let alone the rest of them, it's certainly possible but it's not a 1/50 chance. The teams in blue all have a game or two in hand on the Wunderers, if they do go back into Admin they drop into oblivion, they can't even break even let alone show a profit in League 2, you can't run a stadium like the Reebok with up to 200 on the payroll unless you are in the Championship, and they aren't. The thing is, how tight are the strings on the purse held by Punch & Judy ? An indication of that is, it seems they won't take anyone on, not even a FREE Agent until the January window. They could have picked up a great goalie for "next to nowt" but it looks like he's on his way to Salford now. I can't believe that they didn't sign him, they are now TOTALLY dependent on GILKS, gawd help them if he gets injured or if his luck runs out, no matter how good any of us are if our luck runs out, if the flux of the Universe turns against us, we are knackered. I can't imagine any other reason they didn't take the lad on when they had the chance, I'd bet that was down to how tight the purse strings are. Seems to me that the future of the Club now rests in one man's hands, lets see how that works out, it's a £17.4 Million bet that I wouldn't want to be holding, I wouldn't want to be taking Evens on that, let alone be offering 50/1. PS: The 50/1 is back on the boards with BetVictor, Hill's have a more cautious 20/1 on offer. Chances are the odds will change one way or another after tonight's game. https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/league-2/relegation Edited November 24, 2020 by Perfect Storm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) Hard to believe how results have changed for the Wunderers since they dropped Crellin and put their goalkeeping coach between the sticks, they'd not lost a game since Gilks was put between the sticks, grabbing 10 points from their last 4 games ☹️ I was going to leave the game alone, but I couldn't resist the 9/2 on the HT/FT result, just to £20, thankfully I didn't wade in any deeper than that. As for tonight's game, it was poor performance from both sides, having said that Scnuthorpe were "uninspiring", yea, I'll stay with that, rather than call it like it was. Except for the GK who played well and made a couple of decent saves, I've seen Blackpool donkeys motivated more than the rest of the team. Ah well, we march on to Saturday now, I think I'll read the result in the Sunday paper, I don't fancy ruining my Saturday night. Edited November 25, 2020 by Perfect Storm yossa6133 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted November 27, 2020 Author Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) What can I say about tomorrow's game, the Wunderers at home to Sarfend. You might recall that I'm no fan of the Wunderrs but if ever a game had the hallmarks of a massacre this has to be it. Hard to believe the "Anyone can beat anyone in this League" little more than verbal insurance policies handed out "just in case" FFS. If ever there was 3 points in the bag this game is it, could the Wunderers possibly be playing a weaker team, Sarfend have scored 6 goals so far and conceded 26 !!! A -20 goal difference, the Bookies have the Wunderers at 3-5 the way I see it they should be 1-5 if not 1-10, 3 nowt by HT wouldn't surprise me, Southend are poor. If you don't like laying odds on, I can't believe that... Bolton -1 is 7/4 Bolton -2 is 9/2 Bolton -3 is 14/1 !!! https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/league-2/bolton-v-southend/handicaps I can't see Southend scoring against Gilks in goal for the Wunderers in the form he's in, so it's just a matter of how MANY Bolton put past Southend, 5-0 or MORE wouldn't surprise me. That's my colours nailed to the mast, I'll be taking that 7/4 to a good amount, might have a bite at that 9/2 as well. Edited November 27, 2020 by Perfect Storm yossa6133 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) Wunderers 3 Sarfend 0 What a day, even Nebuchadnezzar could read the writing on today's wall. I'd a grand on at 7/4 giving a goal away and 200 quid at 9/2 giving giving 2 goals away. I damned near went for the 3-0 correct score too, but sometimes it's best to rein yourself in, I've played Donkey Kong, I know when to quit. A nice win though, 2,650 quid out of the satchels of Paddy Power & Billy Hill, the 7/4 was a knocking bet and the 9/2 was way ore the odds. Have to say that with 40 minutes on the clock after seeing the Wunderers have 2 goals disallowed, one of them looked fine to me, but you can't tell on iFollow {a shyte service if ever there was one}, but seeing the ball in the net twice, both being disallowed and a 0-0 HT looming I was beginning to wunder about the Wunderers. Just as I was reaching for my HT cuppa when in the dying seconds of 45+ Baptiste put a perfect cross into the box onto the head of Delfouneso, "bottom right corner". Nice goal, pressure off the Wunderers and pressure on the Shrimpers, at least that goal put the show on the road... I was hoping that Southend would come out heads down, they didn't, they had their share of play, in fact they'd more shots on goal than the Wunderers, Gilks in goal played a blinder to keep a clean sheet. Just when I was beginning to wunder, again, in the 65th minute Doyle was brought down in the box, penalty given. Doyle sent the goalie the wrong way right footing the ball into the bottom left corner, 2-0. I'm thinking the flood gate has to open now, but I was wary of Southend getting one back, that would have buggered my bets up. It was a nervy time until Doyle left footed one into the net in the 81st minute, that put paid to Southend, no coming back from 3-0 down with 10 minutes or so left on the clock. All I needed was a clean sheet for the Wunderers to win both bets. I had to sweat for that too, except for a brilliant block by one of the defenders Elvis Bwomono WOULD have made it 3-1 add to that a brilliant save by Gilks in the 88th kept it to 3-0. Was I glad to hear the Ref blow the whistle... I doubt the Bookies enjoyed the game as much as I did !!! Edited November 28, 2020 by Perfect Storm Alley Cat Glover, Bedlam and Zico10 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 3, 2020 Author Share Posted December 3, 2020 (edited) Looks like there'll be a bucket of water thrown on the money that some of the EFL Clubs are burning through. It's better than nothing, but only just, a bit like throwing stale bread to a duck. Hard to believe a Physio gets paid 6x more than a Nurse !!! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8262315/Physios-191-000-kit-men-56-000-Crazy-wages-dont-add-EFL-clubs-brink.html Edited December 3, 2020 by Perfect Storm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) Looks like the Wunderers form will continue tomorrow, they have won their last 5 games, while their opponents have lost their last 5, gawd knows how the Bald Fred et-al have Bolton at 13/10... https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/league-2/bolton-v-port-vale/winner If that's not bad enough PV will be without David Amoo, one of their one of their better players, hard to say who their "best" player is at the moment, it's not their goalkeeper he's let 11 goals in in their last 5 games. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/port-vale-david-amoo-injury-19394486 As for the Wunderers, well they will be without Doyle... https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/18921559.bolton-striker-nathan-delfouneso-fires-warning-port-vale/ They'll miss him, there's no doubt he's been their best man in the last month or so, when he doesn't score he's up there with the assists, so Bolton will have to re-jig their front line, but. With the run of form they have had and the confidence that gives vs the run that PV have had, and the gloom that brings how the hell can Bolton be odds against ? I'll have a slice of the 13/10 with a side order of the 7/2 on offer for Bolton -1. https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/league-2/bolton-v-port-vale/handicaps Chances are weather will be the most memorable feature of what's likely to be a dour game, it's bad enough right now, but forecast to be wet and windy to say the least tomorrow. I fancy there'll be more shots for Scott Brown to face than Gilks, in wet and windy weather that makes a difference, more so for a goalie that already seems to have developed slippery hands. Thinking along those lines the 14/5 against Bolton doing the HT/FT thing looks tempting, an early goal can win us that bet... https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/league-2/bolton-v-port-vale/half-time-full-time Edited December 5, 2020 by Perfect Storm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) Team News @ !4.35. Doyle plays, Tutte doesn't, that should strengthen Bolton's attack. Edited December 5, 2020 by Perfect Storm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) Bolton 3 Port Vale 6 Who the hell would have seen that coming !!! What's the chance of 9 goals in a game, any game, chances are they needed an abacus to keep the score. I did £400 in on the Wunderers to win @ 6/4 and £100 on the HT/FT bet. That's the first time that Port Vale have scored 6 goals since 1987 !!! I don't know whether to laugh or cry, today's bets are down the drain but the long term bet is looking a lot brighter, especially as the Wunderers face some tough opponents in their 5 games before the end of the year. Edited December 5, 2020 by Perfect Storm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alley Cat Glover Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Yes, real dent in the confidence I would think after a period of being tight at the back. Not sure what the instruction would of been to Port Vale team, but they must scored most shots on target. Results will be critical between now and New Year some hard teams coming up with the likes of Walsall, Cheltenham, Tranmere, Carlisle and Morcombe. Be interesting to see who can do what in the transfer window from 1st Jan. Still think will need a point deduction to have any hope long term though you never can tell. Looks like one place has gone to Southend unless there is a Christmas Miracle, looks like Stevenage need to improve results along with Bradford and Barrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 (edited) Hello Alley Cat, I don't know what to make of the 6-3 drubbing the Wunderers had yesterday, none of their fans know what to make of it either, no doubt it will be causing panic in the ranks of the fans and the Management. Many of them are now reflecting on the 4 previous back to back wins they had in November, wundering what went wrong yesterday. Those 4 games saw Bolton pick up more points than the other 12 games they'd played this season, figure that one out. As mentioned before though it's because of results like this that "Bookmakers don't live in Council Houses". One of the Wunderers supporters told me Port Vale haven't scored 6 goals anywhere since '87 I was thinking he meant 1887 I was a bit surprised when he said 1987 !!! it's one for the record books that's for sure. Port Vale had 14 shots, 11 on target !!! that's got to tell you how far off the ball Bolton's defenders were, of those 11 shots on target 6 were goals, of the other 5 it was down to a couple of brilliant saves by Gilks or it would have at least 2 that any other day would have gone in. It wasn't one of those games where the goalie was having a bad day, Gilks did what he could, the defenders were atrocious and mid fielders should be in the dole queue this morning, let alone doing a Sunday morning stint. I'm not on my own to say I've never seen a teams fortunes turn around as dramatically as this game went, a memorable event, in more ways than one. As you say the December games don't look gift wrapped for the Wunderers, maybe their cookie has crumbled, time will tell, but... As for the relegation bet, BetVictor have gone 80/1 against Bolton, I'm tempted to throw a few more quid in at that price, they obviously haven't factored in that the club may well go back into Administration, that's what the bet is all about. https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/league-2/relegation My bets were placed before a game was played this season, so the results so far if anything are a bonus, thankfully they aren't topping the league with the 33 points that Newport have bagged so far. Don't forget that ALL the Bookies had Bolton at 5/1 Fav's to win L2, so most folks would have expected them to be on 30 points or so right now. Of the 22 points Bolton have, 12 of them almost miraculous, take 17 points off that and they are still 1 point behind Southend, and 14 points adrift of Stevenage, Bradford and Barrow, would you lay me 80/1 that the Wunderers would pull 14 points back from ANY of the above ? They'd need 5 wins to do that, while the other relegation candidates bag none, I really can't see that happening. So the bet actually looks better now than it was before the season started, they haven't bagged enough points to avoid relegation IF they go bust, and I'll take 80/1 against that happening any day of the week. I'll be looking for a copy of Football Ventures 12 month financial statement, that's due to be filed within a week or so, that will tell us if the bilge pumps are keeping the ship afloat. https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/18912637.wanderers-appoint-cowgills-auditors-new-financial-accounts-draw-closer/ If that reads as I expect I'll be taking as much of the 80/1 as I can get off Gibraltar Victor. I'd let you know "soon after" ? Edited December 7, 2020 by Perfect Storm Zico10 and yossa6133 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alley Cat Glover Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 When are the accounts due, doesn’t say in the article, assume they have had their year end to tie in with the football season, unless they are going for 31st December. Also depends on payments for the hotel complex and furlough. Tier 3 still up there in Lancashire can’t see that changing even with the likely vaccine, think we will see another spike over/after Xmas. That will probably see us through to end of Feb early March. How long can the cash last, the Premier League money will probably cover 1 or 2 months. Bit surprised haven’t already seen a problem with clubs having wage issues, or could that explain Saturday? Perfect Storm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 (edited) I'm not sure when the FV accounts are due, sometime soon, a matter of weeks if that, but to make sure I don't miss them I've registered an interest to "Follow this Company" with Companies House on the link below, it doesn't cost anything to do that, they'll send an email as soon as any documents are lodged. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11761052 The year end isn't tied to the season, FV took this Titanic Venture on in August 2019 but their year end doesn't seem to align with that either. The documents lodged already do make for some interesting reading, including what's mortgaged etc etc etc, it would make more sense to an accountant that it does to me. The Club and the Hotel, attached limpet like to the stadium cost £17.4 Million, the Hotel alone costing £7.4 Million of that. If the hotel wasn't part of the structure of the stadium I doubt they would have wanted it. If memory serves me well at best it broke even in the last 5 years, even though it used to average 80% or so capacity, since Wu Flu came along the place has been kept open {gawd knows why} they are lucky to be running at 8% capacity of the 125 rooms, the hotel is closed "except to business travellers" if you're a business traveller would you be thinking of staying overnight in Bolton !!! If that's not bad enough, when FV took the hotel on they had to pay £2,000 a day, not sure if that was down to a mortgage on the hotel or an inherited debt on the hotel. Speaking of "inherited debt", FV got the Club for the knock down price of £10 Million on the proviso that they accepted and serviced (fully within 12 months from August 2019) approx £5 Million of debt including a substantial amount owed to HMRC. I suppose in August 2019 that looked doable, even if the hotel wasn't making money, maybe they thought they could turn that around, but no one else has made it pay in the 20+ years since the stadium was built. Looked like a non runner from day one to me, and more importantly to all the other potential investors who didn't fancy taking it on. But, even if they hotel wasn't bringing much in, the Wunderers supporters are the mother-lode, if you fielded 11 sheep wearing Bolton's kit there'd be 8,000 supporters cheering them on. Speaking of which, the most uninspiring chant you are ever likely to hear at any game, anywhere, is the Weary Wunderers "Come On You Whites" chant, they don't even shout it, it's a sort of murmur that echo's around the ground like a Mexican wave, in ULTRA SLOW MOTION, it's like listening to maggots writhing... As you say, it's still Tier 3 up here, chances are we were one of the first into T3. Bolton topped the UK's Wu Flu league a few months ago, it's dropped back a BIT since then, but chances are with Christmas on the horizon folks will be in more bubbles than an Aero Bar. Few folks expect things to get back to anything even close to normal before April. To add to the misery, it doesn't help the Wunderers if 2,000 supporters or even 4,000 are allowed into the stadium, they have approx 8,000 season ticket holders so they will get first dibs on getting in to watch the games. So, there's no gate money in it for the Wunderers, not another penny from having fans in the stadium, in fact there'd be less, it would simply add expense to the game, you'd need to pay stewards, gate men, the Police etc etc etc. I think the Wunderers are in line for £250,000 of that EFL money, you asked "how long with that last" well, how long can you hold yer breath. Forget paying mortgages, inherited debts, the EVERYDAY overheads of a MASSIVE stadium, that last year had 200 staff on the books, add the players wages and the cost of the coach taking them to the away grounds, and the overnight costs etc etc etc, and you'll see that £250,000 doesn't even touch the sides. BWFC are, or should that be "were" a Big Club with massive overheads, just a couple of years ago when they were in the Championship they were getting £12 Million a year off Sky for the television rights, the clubs in L2 are lucky to see a tenth of that... It seems to me that the club is crumbling under its own weight... Edited December 6, 2020 by Perfect Storm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 (edited) I just re read your post about "wages", it went over my head at first reading... Hmmm, there's a thought, especially as just a few days ago Evatt spoke about "clubs having difficulties meeting their wage bills at the end of this month". At the time I said "How the **** would Evatt know anything about wage bills for clubs other than his own, no matter who he knows in other clubs they wouldn't be confiding in Evatt or anyone else. It sounded to me that he was talking closer to home, more so that if there's been a problem with the wage packets then it wouldn't be a surprise to see that angst taken to the pitch. There's no message a team could state more clearly than to throw a game when they aren't happy, we've seen that happen more than once. Looks like that could be going on at Sheffield United, 1 point from 11 games, 5 goals for, 18 against, something is going on there. I'm amazed that Chris Wilder is still there. I hear Wilder isn't well liked, can't say more than that, other than I wonder what the betting is he finds a P45 inside his Christmas Card... Edited December 6, 2020 by Perfect Storm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 7, 2020 Author Share Posted December 7, 2020 Hello Alley Cat, thought I'd post a review (lifted from Page 2 of our posts in here), to indicate how far that £250,000 that the Wunderers are likely to get from the EFL grant scheme might go... Going off the Joint Administrators report of 17th June the overheads from May 2019 to January 2020, pre Wu Flu days, when folks were still going to watch the games and the hotel was {presumably} doing OK. Counting only the overheads amounting to over £10,000 during those 6/7 months they came in at... Staff &Player wages of £2,138,750 PAYE/National Insurance £1,164,732 Heating & Lights £189,353 Repairs/Maintenance £70,450 Rates £58,312 Pensions £48,785 Insurance £44,000 Lease/HP Payments £42,881 Consultancy Fees £35,794 General Expenses £13,582 Stationary £10,463 The total expenditure for the club for those 6/7 months came in at over £3.9 Million !!! that's over £500,000 a month you'd need in income, just to break even... Fair enough the new owners will have shaved as much as they can off the above, but no matter how much you tighten your belt if there's nowt in yer pocket at the end of the day, yer knackered. So unless things have changed dramatically (for the better, rather than the worse) that £250,000 would last just a couple of weeks !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 7, 2020 Author Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) Other than the above, I just couldn't resist that 80/1 that Bet Victor were offering so I put £50 into my account on there and rather than try to get 80/1 to £50 and finish up with the door shut in my face I nibbled away with a fiver a time, £400 to £5 is a nice little bet. I left 5 minutes or so between bets, that went well until I'd just a tenner left, so I thought "b*gger it" I'll see if it'll take a tenner, more fool me, it must have rang a bell in Gibraltar, this is what came back... Bolton Wanderers Bottom 2 Finish - Outright League Two Bottom 2 Finish 2020/21 £ @ 80/1 Limit Exceeded. Max stake for this event has been adjusted. Payout limits apply to all betting transactions. They offered me 80/1 to £1.38 !!! How the hell do they come up with a ridiculous figure like that ??? £1.38 !!! I should have stayed with £5 a time, that got me in 8x under the wire, £3,200 to £40. There's NOTHING "Sporting" about Bookmakers these days, they aren't Turf Accountants the "Turf" has GONE, it's been laid on top of the Bookies of Old, the ones who weren't adverse to risk. We are left with nothing other than "Accountants" if that's not bad enough they employ Algorithms to weed out and close down the accounts of the Punters who win. It's a RUTHLESS game these days, one where you have to be very cagey, nothing spooks Bald Fred et-al than to suspect that we might know something they don't know. I wonder if Bet Victor will still have 80/1 on offer, or if they will drop the odds ? they might just have turned the tap off for me ? I wish the other Bookies were still offering odds... https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/league-2/relegation Edited December 7, 2020 by Perfect Storm Torque 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alley Cat Glover Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Looked at the teams and apart from one midfielder the team has been largely unchanged for 5 games. Now in 8 home games Bolton conceded 6 goals, even with Crellin in goal for 5 or 6 of them, then concede 6 in one game. I thought having solved the GK position Bolton were working their way back up the league. Now one Central Midfielder can’t make that much difference surely. How long is Tutte missing for? Is the squad that paper thin, a couple of injuries and they could again slip into real problems. Now their next match away to Walsall who have only scored 6 home league goals and only conceded 6 goals in their 8 games. Don’t think there will be many on Saturday. Think need to look at team sheet and probably best to leave the match alone. Don’t think 5/4 for home team is great value at this stage, certainly couldn’t back Bolton. It does seem to come back to who wants the result the most. Port Vale certainly did it seems after the poor run they were on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 (edited) Hello Alley Cat, There has to be more to it than meets the eye, fortunes don't change to that degree without there being a reason for the team to have put in such an embarrassing performance. Including to some extent Gilks, he made 2 terrific saves AFTER picking the ball out of the net 6 times, maybe he thought 6 was enough. We can all blow from hot to cold, but if that performance had been any colder the players would have been able to run about with that Covid vaccine safely tucked in their shorts. It seems too much of a co-incidence that Evatt, their Manager had spoken openly just days earlier that "some clubs will have difficulty meeting wage bills this month." Do you think any Managers would be confiding in Evatt of all people that they are in financial difficulty ? I'd bet heavily against that... The more I think about it the more I'm convinced the root of the problem was money, have you ever been a £ short in yer wages. Speaking of which, I can't figure out where the money is coming from to keep the club and the hotel afloat day to day right now. It must be costing at least £100,000 a week in overheads, wages etc, probably more, there used to be 200 on the payroll, let's say they've cut back to 150 now or down to 100 if that's all they have clocking on for say an average of £100 a day {good luck on that} that's £10,000 a DAY !!! Remind me, how many days are there in a month, so even on the low side wages would be 25 to 30 times that day rate. Call it £250,000 a MONTH, where the hell do you find money like that when the turnstiles are locked and the hotel is doing nothing !!! It won't help if they lift the lock down on the stadium, allowing say 4,000 in to watch the games, they'll ALL be Season Ticket holders, they've already "paid to get in". As for the hotel, WHY would anyone want to spend a night on the outskirts of Bolton ? and if you really needed to, the Premier Inn just 100 yards away is offering rooms at £35 a night, the Whites Hotel is asking double that, to make things worse, the rooms in the Premier Inn are better than the ones at the Whites... It's a mystery to me that the plug hasn't been pulled already, I just can't see Punch or Judy pouring more money into this Vanity Venture, for one, I take it with more than a pinch of salt the reports that Sharon Brittan has £57 Million to her name. Do a search for her on the Companies House web site, Judy has "dissolved" more companies than all the McVities I've dunked in a lifetime. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/Vvekpueze1bBsmPr9GQ8VzggeY8/appointments As for the "companies" and "family trust funds" I can't see where there's £57 Million stashed away, unless it's down the back of a couch. Mind you, that £57 Million "reported" was before the Vanity Venture came along, closely attended by a Global Pandemic, so, who knows, her wealth could have sky rocketed in the last year or so, then again... Edited December 8, 2020 by Perfect Storm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 11, 2020 Author Share Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) Tomorrows Walsall vs Bolton game is likely to be pivotal for both teams. Walsall would be much higher in L2 than they are except for sharing too many points, they stand at W4 D9 L3. The only team to have lost less games this season are league leaders Newport. Speaking of which, on the 24th November in the Newport v Walsall game the Sadlers went 1-0 up in the 21st minute, few / if any teams have done that this season at Newport, add to that except for a goalkeeper error they'd have won 1-0 so that's a good result. Since then on the 2nd December they drew 1-1 at home to the mighty Stevenage, thanks for the point anyway, it helps with our long term relegation bet. On 5th December Walsall played away to Tranmere Rovers, a half decent mid table team and beat them 3-1. Walsall's form is improving, excepting for the 6-3 drubbing that Port Vale put on the Wunderers you'd say that Bolton were in form too. Here's what the Parasites think... https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/league-2/walsall-v-bolton/winner At 6/5 ish I won't be tearing a hole in my wallet to back Walsall, the 2/1 ish against Bolton doesn't exactly whet the appetite, 12/5 for the Draw might appeal to some, I'll pass on that offer too, I've enough interest in the game to satisfy my palate. Here's how the Sadlers see the game... https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/walsall-fc/2020/12/11/walsall-v-bolton-jack-rose-urging-saddlers-to-keep-standards-high/ I had to read the comment twice, seeing as how the wife's name is Rose... “I think one of the main things everyone knows is that we had been playing really well for 45 or 60-minutes, but we needed to do it for longer,” Rose said.“So we sat down and had a chat because we knew we had to perform for longer. The less I say, the better... As for the Wunderers, well here's the latest from them, they've sacked the most hated man on their Management Team, the ex train driver, one of the guys that directed Macclesfield Town into oblivion... https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/18939167.bolton-wanderers-football-chief-tobias-phoenix-steps-role/?action=success#comments-feedback-anchor Here's how Ian Evatt will set his stall out... https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/18936393.bolton-wanderers-boss-ian-evatt-wont-make-mass-changes-walsall/ I'll leave the game alone, hopefully last weeks fiasco was down to "Trouble int Mill" maybe sending Toby Phoenix on his way has settled issues, then again, let's hope it hasn't. If the Wunderers take a battering in tomorrow we'll know "summat's up" that'll do for me... On another topic, good to hear that we might get back to the Stands a bit sooner than expected. I hear the Russians have offered to blend their vaccine with the Oxford vaccine, a 50/50 blend they say. I think that's a great idea, seems that as long as it's shaken, not stirred, all you need is 007 mls of the stuff. If you aren't keen on needles the Russian vaccine is the way to go, they don't use a needle, they administer it with an umbrella. Looks like lots of country's are coming up with their own vaccines. Mexico {of all places} is the latest country to claim they have a vaccine, they say it's based on Tequila, but I'm taking that with a pinch of salt... Edited December 11, 2020 by Perfect Storm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 12, 2020 Author Share Posted December 12, 2020 It's a bit, if not a lot off topic, but a mate of mine in Inverness tells me that Stirling Albion are a knocking bet to beat Cowdenbeath this afternoon. Stirling Albion are joint 3rd in L2 on 12 points from 7 games while Cowdenbeath are 3rd from the bottom on 4 points from 6 games. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/cowdenbeath/table But there's more to it than that, Cowdenbeath are without Ross their regular goalie, he will be replaced by Ross, from Ross County, that's gotta be a first, Ross from Ross stands in for Ross !!! https://www.oddschecker.com/football/scottish/league-2/stirling-albion-v-cowdenbeath/winner?selectionName=Stirling-Albion I'll take a bit of that 6/10 off Billy Hill's before they get to know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 12, 2020 Author Share Posted December 12, 2020 Hmmm, am I reading this right... Ross Munro on the books of Ross County for 2 years has never stepped onto a pitch in anger ? https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ross-munro/profil/spieler/425496 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 12, 2020 Author Share Posted December 12, 2020 Stirling Albion 1 Cowdenbeath 0 A nice win, but too close for comfort, that goalkeeper Cowdenbeath borrowed off Ross County played a blinder, facing 19 shots, 5 on target, plus 9 corners, holding Stirling Albion off until the 71st minute. Looked like Cowdenbeath had gone looking for a point, except for the odd counter attack they'd parked the bus. In 93 minutes Cowdenbeath had just 6 shots, 2 of them on target and managed just 3 corners, not that I'm complaining ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 A good day all round today, well, for some of us. It didn't start all that well when Bolton went 1 up in the 13th minute, but a goal for Walsall in the 44th minute wiped the smile off the Wunderers faces, more so when that second goal in the 57th minute made it 2-1 to Walsall, game over after that, the Wunderers heads had dropped. Stirling left it a bit late taking 71 minutes to pop the winner in against Cowdenbeath, but the icing on the cake was to see Southend rising from the dead zone thanks to Olayinka the Arsenal player on loan to Southend scoring in the 80th minute. That win and the 2,000 supporters back in their stands now could mark a turning of the tide for the Shrimpers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alley Cat Glover Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Certainly a good day, so nice to see Southend produce a win, next game home to Grimsby certainly winnable not sure I would go so far as to back them but could well take another 3 pts. Bolton on the other hand I was worried about the reaction from that horror last week, especially when they went 1 up. Now they have a very hard game against an inform Cheltenham, much smaller team, but well managed and a good team so hopefully they will do the business. Still leaves poor old Stevenage and Bradford who both got hammered yesterday though. January is fast approaching and all eyes will be on the window, can the wanderers do any business, the fans want 4 or 5, seems 2 central midfielders are urgent they really miss Tutte and have no cover, that are good enough according to them. Now Tobias has good no one to deflect the ire of the fans from the manager or owners if the right players are not brought in, if no early business could get a bit messy, especially if the results deteriorate as we hope! Even Gilks has come under some criticism which seems surprising as he seemed to be the one change that produced the winning streak. Who would want to be a goalkeeper! They still want a keeper in their late Xmas presents apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Storm Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) I've a soft spot for Southend, not sure why, sympathy for the underdog maybe, that and remembering the only time I've ever been there in the days of Mod's & Rockers. It took me 2 days to get from Wigan to Southend on my Vespa VS5, capable of doing 50 mph if yer ears could stand it, but at 35-40 mph you could actually hear other traffic. Took me a day to get to Peterborough, no Motorways to speak of then, no GPS either, just AA maps, thank gawd for me Boy Scout days or I'd never have got there. I arrived on a Saturday afternoon to see hundreds of Mod's & Rockers fighting like **** I left them to it. I was almost too knackered to stand up let alone fight anyone. That's my connection with Southend, the 60's hey, them were the days... Looks like brighter times are on their way for the Shrimpers, they've sold their ground and if they build a team to match their proposed new stadium they'll do well. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-52152238 As for Bolton's reaction, well, from what I could see on ifollow (a shyte service if ever there was one), Bolton soaked up a lot of pressure in the first 10 minutes, their goal on 13 minutes was well against the run of play, Walsall had put everything into attack and were caught by the counterattack. That put Walsall on the back foot but they worked their way back into the game, all in all it wasn't a bad game, it could have gone either way, typical of what you might expect in the middle of what used to be called the 4th Division. The link below shows the highlights, including a brilliant double save by Gilks, except for him we'd be drawing our money now... As you say, the Wunderers next game is away to Cheltenham, Bolton do have some firepower up front, their midfield is mediocre and their defence is woeful, Gilks being the exception, so all things being equal Cheltenham should dismantle the Wunderers. Having said that Cheltenham haven't scored in their last 2 games, mind you one of those games was a 3-0 defeat by in form / high scoring Division 1 promotion contenders Portsmouth, the other game was away to Salford who with least goals against have the best defence in L2. Excepting for those two tough games in their previous 5 home games Cheltenham have netted 12 goals. The almost Evens on offer for Tuesdays game from Bald Fred and the Parasites seems a bit generous, I'd rate Cheltenham as 4/7 but if I had to lay them you'd get no better than 2/5 off me and I'd have to be in a generous mood to offer you 2/5. https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/league-2/cheltenham-v-bolton/winner I can't see the Wunderers regrouping by Tuesday, the beauty of this game is if it goes to plan Tranmere Rovers will be fancying their chance for Saturdays game. As for the departure of the ex train driver, Tobias Phoenix, with a name like that you must have a career in porno waiting for you, but his head on a plate won't silence the baying wolves, nor the braying of the donkeys (the supporters). Word has it that Evatt isn't best liked, well, better liked than Chris Wilder and we can see how that's going. There's too many factions in the Wunderers camp, they blow one way one day and the opposite the next day. As you might have read, some of the donkeys are braying for the return of Sam Allardyce, obviously yearning for a return to former times, some chance, they have no idea about the clubs finances, if only they knew... Don't forget that the reason for our relegation bet is the millstones on the clubs back, the £7.4 Million that FV paid for the Whites Hotel, the hotel is still open, but most days there's more staff than guests. Add to that the £5 Million or so of inherited debt they have to pay off completely by August next year, how do you put £700,000 a month away in a tin to pay that off ? where does that money come from ? it puts that £250,000 from the EFL into context. I see BetVictor are still "offering" 80/1 against the Wunderers being relegated, I tried to get a fiver on at 80/1, the bet was declined, tried again for a quid, same thing, looks like they've noticed I'm a new account and the only bets I have with them are Bolton to be Relegated. Let me know if you can get any money on, I reckon there should be some sort of Law that if they offer a price they are obliged to lay it, to at least a tenner... Edited December 15, 2020 by Perfect Storm yossa6133 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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