Punters Lounge Exclusive £150 added Poker League - Fun Week OmahaHiLo - Wed 29th July

[avongirl]

Punters Lounge is pleased to continue for July with our £150 added Poker League.  We run on Wednesday nights starting at 8.10pm, with a late registration period on top of this.  All games are played in the PokerStars Home Games PL Poker Club.  The first two legs are NLHE, then for a bit of variety we have a PLO leg in week 3, reverting back to NLHE for the final leg.  Due to PokerStars tinkering with the blind and chip options we are currently looking at the available structures and will confirm which apply for each leg in the thread as we go along.

 > Leg 1 : Wednesday 1st July at 20.10 BST in the PL Poker Club Home Game.

 > Leg 2 : 8th July

 > Leg 3 : 15th July - PLO Leg

 > Leg 4 : 22nd July - double entrants in formula *

Buy in is $5.50 per leg.

Late registration is fixed by PokerStars but we would appreciate it if players would register within 15 minutes.  Persistent offenders may be excluded from the Home Games Club.

Your top 3 scores of the 4 legs will count towards your league total. We will be using the usual PL poker league format, which will be updated in this thread. (The PokerStars own league scores will not be used.) Formula is -Log(position/Entrants)x100

To help boost numbers overall and in particular in the final leg we are continuing the system of doubling the number of entries used in the calculation in leg 4 (so if 15 entries the formula will use 30 entrants). This will increase the number of points available in the final leg to make it more competitive.

All members are welcome, however you must post in this thread if asked to let us know your forum username, otherwise your placings and scores cannot be included in the league.  New players are always welcome to join in, so please spread the word and invite your friends so we can keep the weekly numbers up.

£150 Added Value

The £150 added will be split between the top 3 players of the league end, with £75 to the league champion, £45 to 2nd and £30 to 3rd.  This will be payable via PayPal at the end of the league.  Big thank you to SirPuntalot and Punters Lounge for the added funds.  The league winner will also get Punters Lounge merchandise.

Punters Lounge Merchandise

You can now win unlimited Punters Lounge merchandise, even if you have won them before. It consists of our mug with a wraparound 3D logo and also a pack of 10 pens. Unfortunately due to supplier shipping restrictions we may be unable to provide these to members who live outside of the UK.

 

To join the PokerStars PL Home Games Club:

club id = 744199

password = PLPokerClub

 

We also have a PL Poker Club Facebook group where regular reminders are also posted.

Please request to join.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/524375907722928/

 

Good luck!

 

League Table

 

[avongirl]

We'll have a variant poker fun week on 29th July to fill the gap before the next league.

[avongirl]

Comparing Regular and Slow structures. Blind levels and antes are the same, just 10 or 15 minutes. Also late reg 1hr or 1hr30mins.

To be honest, I think the late reg is the decider (although I have put a condition in the opening post). I suggest we stick with the regular blinds throughout with 3000 chips but maybe have a 5000 chips for final leg.  Happy to take views on whether to increase to 5000 for the PLO leg.

We would appreciate it if players did not abuse the extended late registration period (which we cannot adjust) and please register within 15 minutes.

[avongirl]

Leg 1 set up and open for registration

[ian309]

It looks like Stars have shafted Clubs by not allowing them to customise their own structures. Last week we averaged 12 hands per blind level, which means that using the 'regular' structure, by the end of Level 10 you will have posted 3132 chips in antes alone - more than the actual starting stack... the 'slow' structure is even worse. Maybe that's why it felt like a much 'faster' game.. because it was.

At the end of the day it's only a $5 tourney, if the majority are happy with the new turbo feel then so be it.

 

[ian309]

[ian309]

A few interesting facts about tonight's tourney :

i) There were 12 players and it lasted 2 hours and 6 minutes, although the HU was prolonged when Barry rivered quad aces 

ii) If you sit out from the very beginning, with this structure it takes just 43 minutes to blind out - although you *were* six-handed for most of it Helen.

iii) We had two delayed reggers, one after 20 minutes, the other after 45 minutes (and four had already busted out)

iv) Both delayed reggers made the top three, the cash and the big points... maybe that's just a coincidence ?  

[muttley]

I'm not actually against late reggers per se, but it does seem to go on for too long. The 10 min rule seems way too short to me. What time did registration actually close? Maybe we should introduce a rule where anyone who doesn't register by the first break, isn't eligible for points in the league?

[Danshot]

I didn't get involved last night , but @ian309 how do you think that late regging is an advantage ? I'd love to hear why you disagree with it 

for me the only time that late regging might be used to manipulate the league in your favour is the final week if you know that you only have to outlast certain people to get in the Top 3 , for any average week indeed this week being the first week I would say it's just a coincidence that the 2 late reggers both made the top 3 they gained no advantage to cashing the game if anything they're entering at a slight disadvantage assuming everyone is of equal EV

Edited July 2, 2020 by Danshot

[ian309]

7 hours ago, Danshot said:

I didn't get involved last night , but @ian309 how do you think that late regging is an advantage ? I'd love to hear why you disagree with it 

@Danshot

For years there have been heated debates about the pros and cons of Late Reg and it's relationship to ICM, +EV and guarantees, internet poker forums are awash with them... but when applied to the PL League, where cumulative weekly points make prizes in a relatively small field, most of those arguments remain redundant.

Is it actually right and proper that it's now possible for a player to late reg for a PL tourney after 39 minutes with 30 BB, especially when four or five players have already busted ? Last night the Late Regger was guaranteed a higher minimum point score... and joined the tourney after more than a third of the field had already been eliminated.

For years, the ten minutes Late Reg has been a simple courtesy for those who might arrive home late from work. We all began the tourney at more or less the same point and on the same footing. It was not something to be exploited, which is probably why the OP includes the caveat, "Late registration is fixed by PokerStars but we would appreciate it if players would register within 15 minutes. Persistent offenders may be excluded from the Home Games Club."

Why is it so difficult to comply with such a simple request ?
 

[Danshot]

Honestly I don't think anyone is exploiting the anything in the Home Games , and personally I have no objections to anyone late regging are they likely to be guaranteed a minimum point score yes but if they register all 4 weeks at the 39 minute that you have pointed out as starting with 30BB , for 1 they will play only 1 or 2 hands before this becomes 20BB and also say a third of the field is out they start with 2/3s of the chips of the current average stack and likely 1/3 of the chips of the chipleader at that point.   

So be honest if you have to start every week at the same part of the registration what point of the tourney would you enter to give yourself the best possible chance of maximising your points to get a Top 3 position on the leaderboard , because I know my ROI is much better when I register with nearly a full average stack compared to already being at a chip advantage at the point of registration. 

Another point that I think actually helps the league not be exploited is the fact that is best 3 weeks our of 4 , and therefore it requires 3 pretty decent results which jumping in late won't help achieve.

If 10 minutes was a courtesy , why would you not accept the same courtesy to someone that might not get home till 8.45pm am I abusing the nature of the Home Games if I jump in late because my job finished at 8pm and takes me 45minutes to get home. 

Not sure why you had 2 words highlighted in bold but think my points cover why I think that it's really not an issue we need to worry about as a forum and I would suggest that the focus is on maintaining a friendly environment for those that want to play , I understand that your posts are likely done with good intentions but you have in a way created the thought that this weeks late reggers done so in a way to create an advantage I don't know who the latest register was as I wasn't in the game but as far as I know all 3 cashers were regulars when the home games had 10 minutes so I would assume that is a high chance either they were busy or forgot about the game until that point. 

 

[BillyHills]

Hi Guys and Gals

Helen has been taken ill hence why she didn't turn up in Leg 1

Her husband has asked me to see if everything is covered regarding the tournament set-ups etc.

I'm not around these parts and not sure on the day to day running of the Poker section so can anyone sort out what is required until Helen has recovered?

Please message me if we have a problem.

Mant thanks

BH

[Danshot]

Wishing a speedy recovery to Helen @avongirl

As far as the league is concerned the other Admins are @Bart(UK) , @andybell666 (MVP) @teaulc , is it possible that one of you can take control of this ? 

Or I'm free to set up the Home Games if one of you makes me an admin on Stars. 

 

[glavintoby]

Only two words Sour Grapes

[LIKE2FISH]

I wish Helen a speedy recovery.

[Craggwood]

I couldn't play last night but I agree with the comments above- feel free to join in the hour but allow PL not to give points to those who join after the regular 10 minutes. It seems as though this time last month 2nd and 3rd wouldn't have been able to play, however through pokerstars and not PL they were and have benefitted monetary and points wise.

[BillyHills]

4 hours ago, Danshot said:

Wishing a speedy recovery to Helen @avongirl

As far as the league is concerned the other Admins are @Bart(UK) , @andybell666 (MVP) @teaulc , is it possible that one of you can take control of this ? 

Or I'm free to set up the Home Games if one of you makes me an admin on Stars. 

 

It would be great if any of you could sort next weeks game out please.

Thanks @Danshot I'm not sure how you can be added otherwise, i'll check back tomorrow to see if we have a reply from the others

[Danshot]

2 hours ago, Craggwood said:

I couldn't play last night but I agree with the comments above- feel free to join in the hour but allow PL not to give points to those who join after the regular 10 minutes. It seems as though this time last month 2nd and 3rd wouldn't have been able to play, however through pokerstars and not PL they were and have benefitted monetary and points wise.

My point is they didn't gain any monetary advantage by late reg being extended and by default didn't really gain advantage in the league due to it , I don't really want this to become toxic because like I previously stated this is supposed to be a friendly home game and not just about the added money. 

But policing when people enter to exclude them from the leaderboard seems unnecessary and against the friendly spirit I thought this league was set up for. 

When forum members play other MTTs online I suspect that most of you reg near the start and not wait till the end of late reg , if you gained advantage everyone would reg at the end of registration period. Yes this was a Stars decision and not a PL decision but maybe we could be a little more accepting of changes that are out of our control and only if there is clearly evidence we can adapt in future but complaining based on a sample size of 1 tourney really has no merit. 

 

[Craggwood]

11 hours ago, Danshot said:

My point is they didn't gain any monetary advantage by late reg being extended and by default didn't really gain advantage in the league due to it , I don't really want this to become toxic because like I previously stated this is supposed to be a friendly home game and not just about the added money. 

But policing when people enter to exclude them from the leaderboard seems unnecessary and against the friendly spirit I thought this league was set up for. 

When forum members play other MTTs online I suspect that most of you reg near the start and not wait till the end of late reg , if you gained advantage everyone would reg at the end of registration period. Yes this was a Stars decision and not a PL decision but maybe we could be a little more accepting of changes that are out of our control and only if there is clearly evidence we can adapt in future but complaining based on a sample size of 1 tourney really has no merit. 

 

The obvious answer is to keep it as it is and note what happens over the whole month as others have already done this week ha.

[ian309]

On 6/30/2020 at 12:05 PM, avongirl said:

Late registration is fixed by PokerStars but we would appreciate it if players would register within 15 minutes.  Persistent offenders may be excluded from the Home Games Club.

@Danshot @glavintoby

Which part of this don't you understand ? Why do you think that this doesn't apply to you ?

[glavintoby]

???

[ian309]

[teaulc]

sorry to hear about Helen, i have made Danshot an admin in the Stars club

[Danshot]

11 hours ago, ian309 said:

@Danshot @glavintoby

Which part of this don't you understand ? Why do you think that this doesn't apply to you ?

@ian309 At no point have I said this didn't apply to me , I was literally just stating my thoughts on the comments you brought up. 

With regards to your meme we disagree on the potential impact of late registration on the league and I raised my opinion on it , there is a difference between arguing and providing an opposing opinion to what you believe. 

[muttley]

A few observations.....

Point 1. I'm not an online player. Most of my modest successes have come from live tourneys, in fields of 100-300 players, with buy ins of a few hundred pounds. In these comps I believe I have a decent edge, As such, it is of no advantage to register late, so I always ensure I start as soon as possible. As far as I'm concerned, anyone entering the comp 1 or 2 hours later is playing sub-optimally, as they are missing out on the chance to win chips from the weaker players early on. So entering asap is optimal, and late reggers are playing this tourney sub-optimal.

Point 2. The PL League has a very generous £150 added to it, which, for a $5, is enormous, especially as the field is so small. In fact, it's usually the only online tourney I play all week. It's a bit of fun, right? There's some banter, and we get to meet up once in a while for some more banter and a few beers.

Now suppose I was a volume player and wanted to abuse the goodwill of the PuntersLounge team, here's what I'd do (not suggesting anyone is doing this). I'd register as late as possible and play shit or bust. If I get knocked out early I've only invested $5 and 5 minutes of my time, so no big deal.

As I stated earlier, I am not against late registration per se, but we could be open to abuse at some point, so we do need to talk about it.

Out of interest, is there an option on PokerStars for no late registration ? This option, plus an 8.10pm start would be my preference.

[Danshot]

Unfortunately there is no option to run a Home Game with no late registration , the only reason i'd late reg is if rushing home from work or genuinely forgot about it being a Wednesday evening. 

Again I'd say any winning volume player that only joins for the added league prizes would still have a bigger edge registering at the beginning of our weekly game , and if they play a much higher ABI they are unlikely to be that interested in abusing our league. 

I do concede that in the interest of avoiding any disagreements we stick to trying to make sure we're all registered with the 1st 15 minutes , if everyone has 1 week in which they can still get league points despite late reg maybe this is fair but if it's every week we can ask them for an explanation in advance or potentially limit their points. 

Another option is possibly that if you enter and say is 14 entries already but 4 of them are already out you are not guaranteed 11th of the 15 but instead if you don't outlast anyone you actually get the zero points for 15th and the other 4 are bumped up a place , of course after they outlast 1 player they will gain points but they will not be guaranteed higher points ....... of course its possible they can likely fold to avoid this most the time but that will further deplete their EV and stack in the process. 

 

[glavintoby]

God anybody would think we were playing for the World Cup.

After working a twelve hour shift being on the front line I could not enter on time and joined late.This is the first time I have done this.

When you have seen people dying of Co Vid it hits home home a little.I am a new member and use the poker as a stress release if I get home on time.Some ot the members want to get a grip as Life pails into insignificance.

Heres to all my fellow NHS worker’s.

[Danshot]

@glavintoby 

This was exactly why I was saying that we should not make a big deal of late reg because we do have members around here that have jobs that don't finish at the same time every day , and I would like people like you to still feel welcomed to play in the league. 

So I for one would welcome you still join the games where possible even if after 45 minutes and hope others accept that you would join on time if possible. 

Stay Safe people  

[Bart(UK)]

So guys, apologies for still not being around much personally, I'm trying to deal with a lot of stuff at the moment, some of which you will have already seen via facebook etc. I will continue to pop in when I can. 

Purposely haven't read any ongoing discussion at the moment, but this is Punters Lounge, where open and honest discussion is always actively encouraged but lets sort things out amicably, calmly & respectfully with each other. We can look to change whatever isn't working for members, within the existing boundaries we have or seek/push new ones.

Only noticed yesterday that Helen had been unwell, sending all our love, thoughts & best wishes to her and Duncan. Her well being & recovery is all that matters right now.

Thanks to Dan for stepping in, please flag him or the usual suspects with anything that urgently needs to be looked at. For me at the moment the most effective way is flagging me personally on a PL Poker Club Facebook post. 

[Danshot]

Hello all , can someone in the home game please post a screen shot of the results tonight ?

I'll try sort out leaderboard before Leg 3