**New Rules Starting March 1st**

[BillyHills]

With the ever changing landscape of the bookmaking industry it is becoming very confusing to some on which bookmakers we can use and which bookmakers allow BOG, and from which time it is allowed.

We have decided to narrow the choice of bookmakers and to allow BOG with all selections posted in the competition regardless of time. This will make it much easier for both players and me when settling the bets.

From March 1st the rules regarding bookmakers we use will be as follows;

The only 5 bookmakers allowed in the competition are;

• Bet365
• Paddy Power/Betfair (same prices)
• Betvictor
• William Hill
• Betfred

Any selections posted with any other bookmaker will be settled at SP

 

Many thanks

 

[The Equaliser]

I would have thought it more accurate to only allow BOG prices from 9 am on the day of racing as this seems to me what most bookies are now offering.  Just a thought.

[BillyHills]

On 2/19/2020 at 12:28 AM, The Equaliser said:

I would have thought it more accurate to only allow BOG prices from 9 am on the day of racing as this seems to me what most bookies are now offering.  Just a thought.

The whole point of changing it is to make it very simple for everyone, no time constraints. 

Although it would not suit those who get up late?

And.... NONE of those bookies mentioned have BOG prices from 9am anyway.

Hills 10am, Bet365 & Betvic anytime, Paddys 8am, Betrfred 7am...............

[The Equaliser]

5 hours ago, BillyHills said:

The whole point of changing it is to make it very simple for everyone, no time constraints. 

Although it would suit those who get up late?

And.... NONE of those bookies mentioned have BOG prices from 9am anyway.

Hills 10am, Bet365 & Betvic anytime, Paddys 8am, Betrfred 7am...............

Well, OK, however, I feel that within the next few months all the bookies will move to a time such as 10am for BOG.  It all depends on how much turnover they can produce overnight.  Not much I fear.  I'm all for making things simple but this just does not seem to be right.  No worries anyway.

[BillyHills]

There will be no BOG soon, mark my words.

8 hours ago, The Equaliser said:

this just does not seem to be right.

Not sure what your problem is, surely its the same for everyone.

PS: Try settling 70 odd bets a day with different bookies and working out if it qualified for BOG?

Of course its up to the individual on whether they should take part, not sure if the betfair forum runs such a daily comp ??

 

 

[MrJol]

seems like a good idea to me, some people just ignore BOG times and use any bookie as some have done today (last night) . Less bookies easier for @BillyHills

[The Equaliser]

3 hours ago, BillyHills said:

There will be no BOG soon, mark my words.

Not sure what your problem is, surely its the same for everyone.

PS: Try settling 70 odd bets a day with different bookies and working out if it qualified for BOG?

Of course its up to the individual on whether they should take part, not sure if the betfair forum runs such a daily comp ??

 

 

It just seems fairer to me for you to use a 10 am cut off on the day for BOG qualifiers.  Don't know how much extra inconvenience that would be. No real concern for me though.

More importantly, how do you know if someone in the naps comp is quoting the right odds about a selection the day before and its price is cut from say 20/1 to 5/1 on the following day?

 

[The Equaliser]

To be honest I would rather you settle at SP for the naps competition.  Then, there is no doubt for all concerned about all outcomes.

PP You can save a lot of time by only checking for BOG qualifiers on selections that have either won or been placed.  But, hey, you know that already.

PPS.  I don't like EW options on Nap selections so you could eliminate them.

I do appreciate all your hard work, no matter what

 

 

 

 

[thebestthere]

Changes make sense.

[The Equaliser]

4 hours ago, thebestthere said:

Changes make sense.

I do agree but when they are made they should be for the better

[Kingdom for]

?

BOG off soon, as they say.

[BillyHills]

5 hours ago, Kingdom for said:

?

BOG off soon, as they say.

This BOG is a lot of fuss about not much!!

for starters you have to find a winner, we as a whole are looking at about 20% SR if we are lucky so thats only 1 in 5.

Secondly the horse has to drift out for BOG to come into force, now we all know if any race that has a NR in it the odds are usually cut immediately, so it wipes out any chance of getting best odds.

Lets get a winner first and then worry about the price?

 

[The Equaliser]

@BillyHills I truly think that serious consideration should be given to using SP for the Naps competition.  Last Monday @Johnrobertson posted up a Nap on the previous day in the 4.15 at Lingfiled for First Link at 20/1 with Coral. I queried this as I was interested in the horse and usually check the prices of races that I am interested in the night before between 10pm and 12pm.  It's price was showing as between 9/2 and 5/1.  To his credit John replied back to me at 5.51pm that day explaining that the price of the horse was showing up as 20/1 for about ten minutes the day before and that he took that price.  However, later on John said he was contacted by Coral's saying that this was an error and that they cut the price he had been given to 5/1 (all this information is clearly shown on Monday 17/2/20 Nap page).  What I feel would have been grossly unfair would have been if the horse had won and then it be declared as a 20/1 winner for John.

If you used SP for the Naps competition then there would be no doubt about the declared price of a winner.  I am pretty sure that punters such as @kenisbusy would still be choosing selections such as he did at 80/1, though its SP was 50/1. 

Also, I think it would be good if there was a prize for the punter who has the greatest strike rate for the month and is in profit.  There could be a super prize for the punter who has not only has the greatest strike rate but also the largest profit in the month.

Just some thoughts

[MrJol]

22 minutes ago, The Equaliser said:

@BillyHills I truly think that serious consideration should be given to using SP for the Naps competition.  Last Monday @Johnrobertson posted up a Nap on the previous day in the 4.15 at Lingfiled for First Link at 20/1 with Coral.  What I feel would have been grossly unfair would have been if the horse had won and then it be declared as a 20/1 winner for John.

 

If it had won @BillyHills would have settled it at SP it states this in the rules.

[The Equaliser]

25 minutes ago, MrJol said:

If it had won @BillyHills would have settled it at SP it states this in the rules.

Hi @MrJol I am not so sure that this is true.  If Corals quoted the price of 20/1 then, even if this was only for 10 minutes then according to the rules this could be checked and verified and then the bet would stand wouldn't it? Even if it was an error that was corrected later.  That's the way I see it anyway; which I feel  would have been unfair to be settled at 20/1 had the horse won. 

[Trotter]

Pretty sure that in the olden days the equivalent competition on PL was settled at SP

It was very annoying when you'd spent an hour the night before poring over the form and assessing the relative chances of the horses at the prices quoted ..... only to make your pick at 5/1 and see it go off at 2/1. If you'd known it would be 2/1 SP that would have changed your selection process. 

When I'm looking at a race I'm balancing the horses chance against it's price at that time ........ not trying to guess what price it might be the next afternoon

So I think the introduction of taking a price and BOG was an improvement to the competition as it more realistically mirrored the selection process

BH's new rules seem ideal to me ....... we keep the ability to take a price and BOG yet don't have to bother with all the complications of which firm does what and when and when you can take bog and when you can't. Much easier to limit the firms and have BOG on everything.

And if it makes life a bit easier for BH having to check all the bets ...... well, that a bonus. He's a very busy man doing all the competitions on all the PL forums !

 

[MrJol]

10 hours ago, The Equaliser said:

Hi @MrJol I am not so sure that this is true.  If Corals quoted the price of 20/1 then, even if this was only for 10 minutes then according to the rules this could be checked and verified and then the bet would stand wouldn't it? Even if it was an error that was corrected later.  That's the way I see it anyway; which I feel  would have been unfair to be settled at 20/1 had the horse won.

Corals don't do BOG the day before so rules state SP will be used, simple. Try reading them lol

[The Equaliser]

9 hours ago, Trotter said:

Pretty sure that in the olden days the equivalent competition on PL was settled at SP

It was very annoying when you'd spent an hour the night before poring over the form and assessing the relative chances of the horses at the prices quoted ..... only to make your pick at 5/1 and see it go off at 2/1. If you'd known it would be 2/1 SP that would have changed your selection process. 

When I'm looking at a race I'm balancing the horses chance against it's price at that time ........ not trying to guess what price it might be the next afternoon

So I think the introduction of taking a price and BOG was an improvement to the competition as it more realistically mirrored the selection process

BH's new rules seem ideal to me ....... we keep the ability to take a price and BOG yet don't have to bother with all the complications of which firm does what and when and when you can take bog and when you can't. Much easier to limit the firms and have BOG on everything.

And if it makes life a bit easier for BH having to check all the bets ...... well, that a bonus. He's a very busy man doing all the competitions on all the PL forums !

 

From a personal investing point of view I whole heartedly agree with you.  In fact almost all my posts try to warn newbie punters not to take SP.  However, since there is scope for error by accepting early prices  and BOG I feel that it is much fairer for all concerned to settle "Nap" winners/placed bets at SP. 

The new rules mean that someone took a price the day before on say PaddyPower/Betfair and if the price lengthens the next day and the horse wins then they will be awarded a price that in reality was simply not available. 

If SP was used in the NAPS competition then life would be even easier for Graham.  BTW Graham has to only check BOG rules in regards to winners and placed horses that have been backed each way.

Please note I am not trying to be difficult, all I am trying to do is propose what I feel is the fairest solution should the rules be amended on 1st March

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by The Equaliser

[The Equaliser]

52 minutes ago, MrJol said:

Corals don't do BOG the day before so rules state SP will be used, simple. Try reading them lol

I was talking about EARLY PRICES not BOG.

I hope this helps

[BillyHills]

Players have been taking prices the night before since the comp began over ten years ago, so nothing changes.

I can check them on oddschecker. (or you can let me know if i've made a mistake)

We WILL not be doing SP anytime soon, (think about it, try and work it out, answers on a postcard)

@The Equaliser move on mate, lets put our energy into trying to pick a winner, we both need one (or two).

 

Thanks for the support from the majority of members

 

 

 

 

[The Equaliser]

46 minutes ago, BillyHills said:

Players have been taking prices the night before since the comp began over ten years ago, so nothing changes.

I can check them on oddschecker. (or you can let me know if i've made a mistake)

We WILL not be doing SP anytime soon, (think about it, try and work it out, answers on a postcard)

@The Equaliser move on mate, lets put our energy into trying to pick a winner, we both need one (or two).

 

Thanks for the support from the majority of members

 

 

 

 

Well, in light of the information that I have supplied then, if both you and your boss(s) feel that you will be implementing the most equitable changes to the rules for the Naps competition from the 1st March  then so be it.  Sorry, I didn't have a postcard available. ?

[MrJol]

How about doing BHG, would guarantee winners, all you would have to do is pick the race. Of course SP would be used 

[The Equaliser]

Sorry sir, what is BHG?

 

[MrJol]

12 minutes ago, The Equaliser said:

Sorry sir, what is BHG?

 

Best Horse Guaranteed 

[BillyHills]

Being serious for a minute, ask any decent punter worth their salt, what is the main reason for a selection.

To a man they will tell you, its if a price is value to the horses chances, in any particular race. 

Its simple, if a horse in not value, or not at least the price you think it should be then you move on.

(and yes, even a short priced fav can be value)

Its quite ridiculous to suggest having a competition where by you don't know what price it will end up.

Just my opinion (thats not the answer to the previous question by the way) ?

[The Equaliser]

2 hours ago, BillyHills said:

Being serious for a minute, ask any decent punter worth their salt, what is the main reason for a selection.

To a man they will tell you, its if a price is value to the horses chances, in any particular race. 

Its simple, if a horse in not value, or not at least the price you think it should be then you move on.

(and yes, even a short priced fav can be value)

Its quite ridiculous to suggest having a competition where by you don't know what price it will end up.

Just my opinion (thats not the answer to the previous question by the way) ?

I don't dispute the point that you make; all I'm saying is that if the naps were settled at SP there would be no doubt about the prices throughout the month.  As I wrote earlier it doesn't matter if @kenisbusy only got 50/1 instead of 80/1 all of us could check it out and be reassured that the price was correct.

For a minute there I thought that BHG meant Billy Hill's Geegees.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend, albiet it's nearly over